Superboy Prime vs The Avengers · Comic Book 'Versus' Forum

bluewaterrider Senior Member

So.

Essentially, the following is our roster:

Superboy Prime (1980s debut)
Superboy Prime (non-suited, daytime, post IC4)
Superboy Prime (suited, at night)
Superboy Prime (guardian amped)
Superboy Prime (suited, daytime)

Ares
War Machine
*Iron Man
Rulk

*Thor*
World War Hulk

... and I plan to more or less systematically go through that roster in light of the simple question or questions asked before:

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1) What levels of forces or tactics have affected, hurt, or defeated Prime in the past?

2) Is such fairly consistent over the comic record?

3) Can the Avengers match or exceed these levels of force or reproduce those tactics or similar battle strategies?

4) Is such part of their modus operandi for facing powerful opponents?

5) Are the Avengers likelier to accomplish their objective of beating Prime, considering the above, before Prime can defeat them, or is the reverse more likely?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

... until the above question(s) and relevant others have been answered, along with major objections, supported by scans from the comics themselves, to the satisfaction of the average reader who does NOT have a stake in this argument.

bluewaterrider Senior Member

URL banks should precede blue banks, even as image attachment creation MUST precede links when using KMC...
Thinking it might be a good idea to "seed" surrounding threads and then collate every 10 pages or so with a master list like this.

Superboy Prime

jonnz versus prime
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13999294
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Infinite Crisis #6, Volume 1
Writer: Geoff Johns
Pencillers: Phil Jimenez, George Perez, Ivan Reis, and Joe Bennett
Date: May 2006
----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Infinite_Crisis_Vol_1_6

Flashes stopped him for years
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14008600
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Infinite Crisis #7, Volume 1
Writer: Geoff Johns
Pencillers: Phil Jimenez, George Perez, Ivan Reis, and Joe Bennett
Date: June 2006
----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Infinite_Crisis_Vol_1_7

temporarily BFRed by Lightning Legionnaires
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14019379
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14019409
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14019427
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14019442
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14019449
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Final Crisis. Legion of 3 Worlds #4, Volume 1.
Writer: Geoff Johns
Penciller: George Perez
Date: June 2009
----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Crisis:_Legion_of_3_Worlds_Vol_1_4

Versus the Final Crisis Legion.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13998973
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13998974
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13998975
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13998976
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13998977
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13998978
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13998979
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13998981
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13998983
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13998984
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Final Crisis. Legion of 3 Worlds #5, Volume 1.
Writer: Geoff Johns
Penciller: George Perez
Date: September 2009
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Crisis:_Legion_of_3_Worlds_Vol_1_5

Versus Teen Titans, Final
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13998779
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13998784
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13998786
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13998787
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13998788
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Teen Titans #100, Volume 3
Writer: J. T. Krul
Penciller: Nicola Scott
Date: October 2011
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Teen_Titans_Vol_3_100

Ares
War Machine

*Iron Man

switching to reflective armor in battle (prime heatvision counter)
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14008655
Reference Information Needed or Pending

in non-battle conditions, demonstrates personal teleport tech
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14008826
Reference Information Needed or Pending

Tony Stark aka Iron Man, battle strategist and info gatherer. Notice the Avengers propensity to use teleportation if/when necessary against powerful opponents (Phoenix 5 in this instance)
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14010159
Reference Information Needed or Pending

Versus Magneto. Demonstrates remarkable resourcefulness and strategy against what most people THINK should be the hardest foe in the world for Tony to face.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14022738
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14022797
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14022745
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14022748
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14022751
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14022753
Reference Information Needed or Pending. X-Men versus Avengers 2012.

Rulk

*Thor*

thor versus wheel or whatever. Saves midgard, possibly asgard, too. Suggestion that he can exceed his physical limitations if more strength is needed to meet an emergency
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14008764
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14008771

Thor teleports innocents to “the limbo of space” for safety, to spare them the hazard of serious battle
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14008821

opens portal to The Negative Zone
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14008833

Dimensional Battle Field Removal of Juggernaut
(aided by New Warriors), Mjolnir
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14015830
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14015836
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14015839
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14015841
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14015844
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14015851
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Thor #412, Volume 1
Writer: Tom DeFalco
Penciller: Ron Frenz
Date: December 1989
----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://marvel.wikia.com/Thor_Vol_1_412

Versus Juggernaut. Solo fight 2.
(demonstrates willingness to battlefield remove too tough an opponent)
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14024996
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14024998
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14025000
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14025001
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14025003

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14025005
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14025006
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14025009
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14025011
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14025019

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14025023
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14025025
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14025030

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14025032
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14025039
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Thor #429, Volume 1
Writer: Tom DeFalco
Penciller: Ron Frenz
Date: February 1991
----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://marvel.wikia.com/Thor_Vol_1_429

battlefield removes The Destroyer
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14008816
Reference Information Needed or Pending

In showings against powerful opponents like Hulk and the Galactus herald Firelord, Thor demonstrates his ability to use directed lightning strikes, teleportation, and resourceful command of weather in response to difficult battle situations.
The Hulk 2001 Annual is one of the sources.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14011826
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14011979
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14011980
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14011984
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14011989
Reference Information still needed or pending

Thor demonstrates an ability to (simulate?) phasing and also heal himself from severe damage with Mjolnir
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14008844
Reference Information Needed or Pending

World War Hulk

not quite fodder. hulk versus monet , strong guy, and other random xmen. parallel to the level of comp prime faced
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14008808

bluewaterrider Senior Member

The link version. Note after the necessary transition phase how everything is clickable, sectioned, relevant to the discussion, and, to the greatest extent possible at any given moment, updated with reference information.

Superboy Prime

jonnz versus prime
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13999294
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Infinite Crisis #6, Volume 1
Writer: Geoff Johns
Pencillers: Phil Jimenez, George Perez, Ivan Reis, and Joe Bennett
Date: May 2006
----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Infinite_Crisis_Vol_1_6

Flashes stopped him for years
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14008600
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Infinite Crisis #7, Volume 1
Writer: Geoff Johns
Pencillers: Phil Jimenez, George Perez, Ivan Reis, and Joe Bennett
Date: June 2006
----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Infinite_Crisis_Vol_1_7

temporarily BFRed by Lightning Legionnaires
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14019379
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14019409
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14019427
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14019442
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14019449
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Final Crisis. Legion of 3 Worlds #4, Volume 1.
Writer: Geoff Johns
Penciller: George Perez
Date: June 2009
----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Crisis:_Legion_of_3_Worlds_Vol_1_4

Ares
War Machine

*Iron Man

switching to reflective armor in battle (prime heatvision counter)
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14008655
Reference Information Needed or Pending

in non-battle conditions, demonstrates personal teleport tech
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14008826
Reference Information Needed or Pending

Tony Stark aka Iron Man, battle strategist and info gatherer. Notice the Avengers propensity to use teleportation if/when necessary against powerful opponents (Phoenix 5 in this instance)
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14010159
Reference Information Needed or Pending

Versus Magneto. Demonstrates remarkable resourcefulness and strategy against what most people THINK should be the hardest foe in the world for Tony to face.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14022738
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14022797
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14022745
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14022748
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14022751
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14022753
Reference Information Needed or Pending. X-Men versus Avengers 2012.

Rulk

*Thor*

thor versus wheel or whatever. Saves midgard, possibly asgard, too. Suggestion that he can exceed his physical limitations if more strength is needed to meet an emergency
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14008764
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14008771

Thor teleports innocents to “the limbo of space” for safety, to spare them the hazard of serious battle
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14008821

opens portal to The Negative Zone
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14008833

Dimensional Battle Field Removal of Juggernaut
(aided by New Warriors), Mjolnir
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14015830
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14015836
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14015839
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14015841
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14015844
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14015851
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Thor #412, Volume 1
Writer: Tom DeFalco
Penciller: Ron Frenz
Date: December 1989
----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://marvel.wikia.com/Thor_Vol_1_412

Versus Juggernaut. Solo fight 2.
(demonstrates willingness to battlefield remove too tough an opponent)
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14024996
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14024998
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14025000
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14025001
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14025003

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14025005
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14025006
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14025009
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14025011
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14025019

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14025023
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14025025
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14025030

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14025032
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14025039
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Thor #429, Volume 1
Writer: Tom DeFalco
Penciller: Ron Frenz
Date: February 1991
----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://marvel.wikia.com/Thor_Vol_1_429

battlefield removes The Destroyer
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14008816
Reference Information Needed or Pending

In showings against powerful opponents like Hulk and the Galactus herald Firelord, Thor demonstrates his ability to use directed lightning strikes, teleportation, and resourceful command of weather in response to difficult battle situations.
The Hulk 2001 Annual is one of the sources.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14011826
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14011979
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14011980
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14011984
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14011989
Reference Information still needed or pending

Thor demonstrates an ability to (simulate?) phasing and also heal himself from severe damage with Mjolnir
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14008844
Reference Information Needed or Pending

World War Hulk

not quite fodder. hulk versus monet , strong guy, and other random xmen. parallel to the level of comp prime faced
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14008808

iceman24567 Senior Member

Originally posted by NemeBro
Believe me when I say I truly, sincerely, do not care. If you want to debate, then you should do so in a way that makes it more convenient for your opponent to address your points.
Use imageshack or imagevenue or whatever then.
And I've never had problems with photobucket. Clearly KM and iceman (especially iceman) just suck. estahuh

Originally posted by Blight
Bluewater debates about whether or not he's inconveniencing his debate opponents the same way he debates about the subject matter. So far he's remained a rock on both subjects despite numerous counter-arguments.

👆

Nibedicus Gaming addict

Geez, blue, make a TLDR version please... :-(

DarkSaint85 Bonified abstract

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Geez, blue, make a TLDR version please... :-(

All his posts are TLDR versions ;-)

Nibedicus Gaming addict

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
All his posts are TLDR versions ;-)

i meant for TLDR peeps who just want the summarized version. 😛

DarkSaint85 Bonified abstract

Lol. Its kinda funny the double standards he applies: for example, he disregarded scans of SBP BFRing the Anti-Monitor, and of SBP punching through the 5th Dimension, and of him BFRing the planet, because, crucially, he doesn't do it in battle. Its within his character to do so, though - shatter the planet.

He then showcases how Tony uses teleportation tech against powerful opponents. But neglects to show how its used in battle as a strategy for BFR. I guess he has Thor for that, but why show Tony doing it? Ultimately, he's throwing as much mud as he can, and hoping some of it sticks.

carver9 Senior Member

The rest isn't needed. WWH solos.

Zack Fair Fanboy

Originally posted by carver9
The rest isn't needed. WWH solos.

DarkSaint85 Bonified abstract

What feats would you use to show WWH beating Prime, carver?

DarkSaint85 Bonified abstract

Btw, something we all missed.....in the picture, SBP has a Yellow Power Ring.

carver9 Senior Member

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What feats would you use to show WWH beating Prime, carver?

Pretty much everything. I don't think Prime has the power to drop Hulk. Then looking at what has dropped him and comparing it to what has dropped Prime, I think Hulk is superior. Zeus has pounded and when I say pounded I mean POUNDED on Hulk for a long extended amount of time and Hulk was still awake (but wrecked). Prime was nearly dropped by Conner with well placed hits, beat down by the titans, etc, etc...

The limits it takes to drop Hulk is pretty much skyfather and above...its pretty obvious Prime is below this. Minus versatility, I would rank WWH just a tad bit above Prime.

DarkSaint85 Bonified abstract

Originally posted by carver9
Pretty much everything. I don't think Prime has the power to drop Hulk. Then looking at what has dropped him and comparing it to what has dropped Prime, I think Hulk is superior. Zeus has pounded and when I say pounded I mean POUNDED on Hulk for a long extended amount of time and Hulk was still awake (but wrecked). Prime was nearly dropped by Conner with well placed hits, beat down by the titans, etc, etc...
The limits it takes to drop Hulk is pretty much skyfather and above...its pretty obvious Prime is below this. Minus versatility, I would rank WWH just a tad bit above Prime.

So we are not using BFR, or planet pushing, or flying through?

So where do you place Conor? Above/below a pissed off Black Adam? How about in relation to an Ion-powered Daxamite? Or Superman?

carver9 Senior Member

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So we are not using BFR, or planet pushing, or flying through?
So where do you place Conor? Above/below a pissed off Black Adam? How about in relation to an Ion-powered Daxamite? Or Superman?

If Prime decides to bfr then I agree with you.

Huh? That's like asking me where I place the people that has affected him...Superman, Kal-l, Martian Manhunter, ION, Wondergirl, and the list goes on.

😮

Zack Fair Fanboy

Connor manages to draw blood from SBP, but Superman fails at it in the encounters they have had.

mmm What sorcery is this?!

Damborgson King of the Damboys

it means that Connor is > Kal

Zack Fair Fanboy

Originally posted by Damborgson
it means that Connor is > Kal

DarkSaint85 Bonified abstract

Yah...I mean, one of the main criteria with which you are basing your opinion, is that its obvious that WWH can output enough power to drop Prime, after all, look at what HAS dropped Prime in the past, Conor, TT, etc...

So I'm saying, considering a pissed BA had about three free shots at him, and DIDN'T drop him, that must mean...BA<Conor, right? Or since the end of the Prime/Yat fight looked like this (before Yat gets his shields breached by lead, so not counting subsequent beatings)

It must mean that Conor > Ion Yat, right? Because Prime looks fine, Yat is bleeding. And this was just after Prime had been weakened and was being beaten down by the top heralds.

Nibedicus Gaming addict

Well, of course we won't see SBP bloodied in that scan, HE'S the one doing the punching, after all....