Superboy Prime vs The Avengers

I understand the difficulty that people are having.

It's the idea that Prime is pre-Crisis, therefore Prime, by definition should be greater and higher than everyone else.

Problem is, Prime is NOT consistently portrayed that way, if at all.

From Infinite Crisis #4 onwards, in fact, he is written as a deeply, deeply disturbed individual who is at war, first and foremost, with himself.

People have speculated that the source of power for Kryptonians is not really yellow sunlight at all, rather some source activated by yellow sun, and somehow modulated by the mental energy of the person.
Hence the Kryptonian can do things like push an object that they should otherwise be going through (owing to surface area calculations), fly without visible means of propulsion, and/or shut down their power despite the presence of sun.

This seems to happen in the case of Prime.

Regardless of whether it does or not, though, Prime is certainly NOT the same individual throughout his history as he was during his debut.

In his debut, he was pre-Crisis, and presumably planet-moving in his ability. Different from today's post-Crisis Kryptonians, Prime was also different from other pre-Crisis Kryptonians, as demonstrated by the fact that he could endure red sunlight without loss of power, whereas other pre-Crisis Kryptonians could not.

Obviously that has changed.
So has Prime.

Time for an examination.

These charges of "lowballing" don't take into account reality.

The reason opponents are able to say
"Why, you're not presenting a low showing here; this is actually a GOOD showing for Prime"
is because I am not in fact looking to depict low showings for him.

It is a different program entirely that I am following.

The simple questions being asked concerning whether or not the Avengers win, for me, are as follows:

What level of force or tactics have affected, hurt, or defeated Prime in the past?

Is it fairly consistent over the comic record?

Can the Avengers match or exceed these levels of force or reproduce these tactics or similar battle strategies?

Is such part of their modus operandi for facing powerful opponents?

Are the Avengers likelier to accomplish their objective of beating Prime considering the above BEFORE Prime can defeat them?

Infinite Crisis #4 seems the logical place to start.

If you want to predict a person's prospects for fight success, after all, you DON'T just look at the highest and greatest things they've ever done and use that as your base.

By that kind of thinking, Mike Tyson would still be champion of the world.

Actually, going by the most powerful puncher theorem, which people seem to posit for Prime, the greatest heavyweight champion of all time would be Earnie Shavers, who is, arguably, the heaviest hitter in the past 50 years of the boxing world.

In point of fact, looking through a list of champions, you will not find ultra-hard punching Earnie Shavers anywhere -- he never held the heavyweight title.

So it is with Prime. Considered from one standpoint he looks unbeatable.
Certainly a pure theoretical-best "powerset" Prime might fit the bill.

The character presented on the comic page these last few years?

Quite a bit different.

At any rate, it's more important to get scan information into this thread right now than arguments.
Arguments can be made or expounded upon once we have some material to work with.

Beginning:

As I am short on time today, this will probably be my last submission for the day. Earlier Krypto was mentioned and discussed.

Now, however, note one thing.

Prime is not merely bleeding from Krypto's bite.

He does not merely have Connor's blood splashed on him, either.

Examine the scene more carefully.

Prime, mighty pre-Crisis Superboy Clark Kent Prime, is ALREADY bleeding from his nose.

Krypto JUST bit him.

Unless he were bleeding from off-panel retaliation of Connor, where did Prime GET this from?

Is this compatible with what most people think of as true pre-Crisis invulnerability?

I wonder how many of the posts in the thread are blues.

Quite a few. He does like to see his words in print.

I'm still awaiting him to actually answer me, though.

Who here has been convinced by his posts?

Originally posted by Damborgson
I wonder how many of the posts in the thread are blues.

A proportion of that were posts highlighting who Pixie was (even though she wasn't in the thread, and everyone else knew who she was), posts highlighting his belief that Rulk could absorb non-gamma energies, and posts talking about WBH...

Oh, and a few posts showing SBP bleeding.

Originally posted by Damborgson
I wonder how many of the posts in the thread are blues.

Damborgson, we needed your assistance in this thread with something.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Quite a few. He does like to see his words in print.

I'm still awaiting him to actually answer me, though.

Who here has been convinced by his posts?

I have been convinced 100% that there is no chance in hell that Superboy Prime..........

............

Nope, nevermind. I thought Blue convinced me, it just didn't happen.

Originally posted by carver9
Damborgson, we needed your assistance in this thread with something.

If it was to do with Rulk, Damborgson already said his piece in the thread....

Yeah, I mean no one can dispute the team having the means to cause Prime pain or harm; it's blatantly obvious they can.

That said, it's doubtful they could beat him. Generally higher stats across the board and crazy damage soak to compensate and more than make up for the fact for his durability.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Prime wins, but based on his averages, its no stomp.

Smart man.

Yeah, was my first post in this thread...and then I just got caught up with the whole Rulk fiasco...

I don't think many are disputing it would be a tough win. Maybe a couple...

Originally posted by carver9
Damborgson, we needed your assistance in this thread with something.

what is it??

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
If it was to do with Rulk, Damborgson already said his piece in the thread....

👆

Originally posted by Damborgson
what is it??

👆

Are we limiting WWH to his showings during that arc or are we using "all" of his showings as a whole (NOT including WBH).?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
If it was to do with Rulk, Damborgson already said his piece in the thread....

No, I don't care about Rulk.

Originally posted by carver9
Are we limiting WWH to his showings during that arc or are we using "all" of his showings as a whole (NOT including WBH).?

I think it's fine if you use stuff that would still be considered WWH outside of the miniseries. Like when he fought Skaar should be ok.

Carver is flexing his typing fingers as we speak...