Superboy Prime vs The Avengers

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

I was trying to prove how you haven't convinced anyone with your good scans and argumentation.

You haven't succeeded, though.

For starters, the majority of viewers of this thread are non-posters.
You can prove that just by looking AT the number of views this thread has and continues to get everyday.

Plenty of them have opinions, too, and my argument is far more geared to them than the pro-Prime side.

You really think I should spend even a moment's consideration of whether or not what I present affects someone like Blight, who says himself he isn't actually looking at anything I'm presenting?

But is Blight a significant portion of the 2 or 3 hundred people being adding their viewing numbers to this thread daily?

Then you have the example of Carver who just recently wrote the following:

Originally posted by carver9
I don't think Prime has the power to drop Hulk. Then looking at what has dropped him and comparing it to what has dropped Prime, I think Hulk is superior. Zeus has pounded and when I say pounded I mean POUNDED on Hulk for a long extended amount of time and Hulk was still awake (but wrecked). Prime was nearly dropped by Conner with well placed hits, beat down by the titans, etc, etc...

But his vote was originally for Prime, not the Avengers, as anyone checking out page 1 of this thread can verify.

So I already know this thread is reaching people I want to reach, despite however much spin you try to add to it, despite however many attacks I receive, and despite how much you try to slam my character.

In the meantime, you've not given a significant counter to the argument actually stated. Based on both groups IN A FIGHT and IN CHARACTER, Avengers take a slight majority.

And right now, far from "ignoring" or "avoiding" anything, you should notice I am doing exactly what I said I would be doing -- systematically going through Prime's issues as I know them, in chronological order, to establish his in-battle character, along with what levels of force and tactics have proven to affect, hurt, and/or defeat him.

That's a reliable debater you just switched to your side. Gratz.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider

But is Blight a significant portion of the 2 or 3 hundred people being adding their viewing numbers to this thread daily?

Woah. you mean 2/3 hundred people read our musings? Amazing.

But his vote was originally for Prime, not the Avengers, as anyone checking out page 1 of this thread can verify.

He then changed his vote to Hulk, on Page 3. So erm....no, that wasn't down to you. Did you post on pages 2 and 3? No. So are you suggesting your one post on Page 1 convinced him? Yes/No?

And right now, far from "ignoring" or "avoiding" anything, you should notice I am doing exactly what I said I would be doing -- systematically going through Prime's issues as I know them, in chronological order, to establish his in-battle character, along with what levels of force and tactics have proven to affect, hurt, and/or defeat him.

Carry on. The OP of this thread, who you'd think is interested in what people have to say, has already said that he didn't read your posts.

Originally posted by Juntai
That's a reliable debater you just switched to your side. Gratz.

Luckily bluewater was here to convince him , carver is a known Hulk hater.

Lulz like carver needs much convincing to vote pro Hulk. Its funny hes gone from Prime winning to Hulk soloing 😆. That should set off some alarms blue 😆

This thread should be disinfected.

Blue, Carver still maintains that if bfr is an option, prime would win.

Originally posted by Blight
Blue, Carver still maintains that if bfr is an option, prime would win.

As do many of you.

As, more importantly, I suspect the average reader of this thread, before examining any evidence, would think Prime does.

But things start to look different when you actually examine what Prime does IN AN ACTUAL FIGHT, IN CHARACTER.

You discover, for instance, that posters who say

"He BFRed Black Adam!" are overlooking that such was not Prime's intent, that Prime even needed Alex Luthor to explain to himself what happened and why,

to give just one example.

The solution in either case is to show what these people actually DO in the comics, not what people just think they would.

At least if we're talking in character, as the original poster (OP) of this thread specified.

Anyway, continuing ...

Originally posted by Blight
Blue, Carver still maintains that if bfr is an option, prime would win.

I take credit for that.

It all comes down to whether Prime would BFR Hulk or not. Which I maintain that he would, once he realises Hulk just keeps getting stronger. Or he may even BFR Hulk accidentally, as shown with BA. The point is, he is physically able to do so.

The others aren't really a factor, save for Thor. And yet, we have Tony BFRing SBP IN CHARACTER, without prep, according to bluewater.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider

The solution in either case is to show what these people actually DO in the comics, not what people just think they would.

At least if we're talking in character, as the original poster (OP) of this thread specified.

OK - so in character, based on what he has done before....he accidentally punches Hulk so hard, he flies off into space.

Happy now?

P.R., you should check out page 51 of this thread.

Gives a better idea of what the Avengers can use to counter Prime and do to secure victory themselves.

Everything is sectioned and click-able and opens in another tab now.
It's kind of long despite it's compactness; I'll probably just do individual people if I decide to reintroduce any of those selections (Thor, instances of BFR) for instance.

Anyway, here's a link to page 51:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=569460&pagenumber=51

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to Infinite Crisis #6.

Most people rank Superman and Professor Hulk to be roughly equal on forums. Savage Hulk is arguably a little stronger, World War Hulk is supposed to be greater still.

For many, Martian Manhunter probably rates a bit below Hulk, maybe around the level of Thor on a bad day or in his weaker incarnations.

Even in a serious fight with an overall overriding goal to achieve, Prime does NOT succeed in punching the head off of or killing a Martian Manhunter-tier opponent. Certainly not in Infinite Crisis 6, at least.

Batman's favorite mentioned in the previous scan is actually his adopted son, Nightwing, a human level hero, like Batman himself.

Prime actually speeds through on his way back to protect the world-melding tower, apparently striking Nightwing along the way.

Note that he does not strike hard enough to kill Nightwing.

He tells Nightwing he "wasn't even trying" last time, though, which is actually not referring to that rush, but instead referring to the battle against the Teen Titans covered in Infinite Crisis #4.

Prime's eyes blaze, and he seems to be minded now to do Nightwing in as Grayson awaits the rush ...

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
P.R., you should check out page 51 of this thread.

Gives a better idea of what the Avengers can use to counter Prime and do to secure victory themselves.

Everything is sectioned and click-able and opens in another tab now.
It's kind of long despite it's compactness; I'll probably just do individual people if I decide to reintroduce any of those selections (Thor, instances of BFR) for instance.

Anyway, here's a link to page 51:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=569460&pagenumber=51

Cool. Except, you have examples of Tony prepping (his reflective armour, and his fight against Magneto) and non-battle uses of teleport, plus no offensive uses of teleportation. Here, without prep, in character, Tony does not bust out teleportation as the norm.

You then show, amongst your battle scans of Thor, him just opening portals, but not using them offensively (Negative Zone, innocents, etc). I may as well post scans of Prime flying really fast, then using that as an argument that Prime flies off with everyone.

If you allow all this, why isn't Prime's BFR allowed?

Even in a serious fight with an overall overriding goal to achieve, Prime does NOT succeed in punching the head off of or killing a Martian Manhunter-tier opponent. Certainly not in Infinite Crisis 6, at least.

Like whom? Certainly not MM, who happens to be a shapeshifter - punching his head off would be very difficult. At least.

He then has three amps in this scenario, making some of your scans moot:

1. He's constantly in sunlight (as per forum rules, fights to the best of his abilities).
2. He has his suit on (which feeds him sunlight constantly).
3. He has a Sinestro Power Ring (not a Legion ring).

Edit: Wait, are you now suggesting Prime is unable to punch Nightwing's head off as a measure of how powerful he is? REALLY???

Tread lightly, for you tread upon forum rules which prohibit low-balling.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
P.R., you should check out page 51 of this thread.

Gives a better idea of what the Avengers can use to counter Prime and do to secure victory themselves.

Everything is sectioned and click-able and opens in another tab now.
It's kind of long despite it's compactness; I'll probably just do individual people if I decide to reintroduce any of those selections (Thor, instances of BFR) for instance.

Anyway, here's a link to page 51:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=569460&pagenumber=51

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to Infinite Crisis #6.

Most people rank Superman and Professor Hulk to be roughly equal on forums. Savage Hulk is arguably a little stronger, World War Hulk is supposed to be greater still.

For many, Martian Manhunter probably rates a bit below Hulk, maybe around the level of Thor on a bad day or in his weaker incarnations.

Even in a serious fight with an overall overriding goal to achieve, Prime does NOT succeed in punching the head off of or killing a Martian Manhunter-tier opponent. Certainly not in Infinite Crisis 6, at least.

I know what the Avengers can do... You think I didn't?

And no, Superman is well above Professor Hulk.

He bfr'd black Adam unknowingly and he was teleported without prime knowing, but how far he hit him would have bfr'd hulk period.

... but he's intercepted by Superboy Connor Kent.

Noteworthy is the rather monomaniacal focus Prime has on opponents.
No barrier to Connor intercepting him because Prime is totally focused on Nightwing.

More cut scenes, as Batman deals with Brother Eye.

Then back to Connor and Prime, who is also being beset by Wonder Girl.

Prime is frustrated. He grabs Wonder Girl by the head and slams her into Connor's own.

Interesting to note:

No heat vision used here.
No apparent superspeed.
Does not crush her head with grip force.
Does not break the heads of both when he slams the back of Cassie's head into the front of Connor's own.

Are you going to post EVERY single occurrence of SBP, bluewater?

Because if not, if you are only picking and choosing, then you will be low-balling, no? That IS the very definition.

Now a clear threat:

"No one will EVER know what I had to do to bring my earth back.

No one."

Safe to assume Prime is no longer "not even trying"?

Even so, his double-fisted slam is blocked by Cassie, and he gets off a punch that sends her flying. But she's still very much okay.

Was it world-moving power she had to endure here?

Connor returns.

And for the SECOND time we see Prime's face, especially the nose and lips, bloodied after fighting with Connor.

Can anyone show anywhere a pre-Crisis Kryptonian, sans the effect of Kryptonite or red sun or magic, betraying THAT level of vulnerability to someone in Connor's class?

But, again, this is the SECOND time Prime has been shown bleeding after fighting Connor, as he ultimately does against Connor in EVERY showing I know of.