Originally posted by Nibedicus
Didn't follow the debate. Why is there an argument of Prime BFRing? Why would he need to? Also, Thor is far more likely to BFR than SBP.
For Hulk, when he realises he cannot beat him down, or that the Hulk just gets angrier and stronger.
I just wanted to end a massive debate of whether Hulk would win or SBP.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I follow the rules. Its as if you have no confidence in playing fair, and are instead trying to use whatever tools you can grasp your hands on to win.
Its not about POWERSET, after all, right? And what the OP said, right?
Well,
1) Here are the rules:
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the poster who originally set up the versus fight determines the conditions of the fight itself ...
Each side starts out with the equipment that they normally and have been shown to consistently carry on them ...
In a scenario fight, the contestants in whose city/reality the fight takes place are allowed access to any material resources they usually have there or of any team they're active members of, as long as they can reasonably get to them ...
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and
2) Here is what the Original Poster (OP) said:
Prime's being his whiny [b*tty] self like always, and finds himself confronted by the Avengers. So naturally he decided to kill them. Here's the roster:
Ironman
Thor
World War Hulk
Red Hulk
Ares
War Machine
who wins?
In other words,
a) the OP presented a SCENARIO, extraordinarily heavily implying this is a scenario matchup. I really don't see how anybody could have any other interpretation of this thread based on the language of the opening post. Perhaps, though, you somehow think differently?
b) Prime's being himself like always, so Prime is IN CHARACTER.
c) He finds himself confronted by the Avengers.
'Finds himself confronted'.
Again, scenario language.
So this is going to be a fight, but not a
"both teams are placed in the Arena of Khazan and the bell rings" sort of fight.
No, this is Prime as we normally see him in the comics,
traveling world to world looking for an Earth to call or make his own.
Fighting people as inevitable severe friction results along the way.
So it's a reasonable assumption that we're talking Marvel Earth which Prime found, hence Prime finding himself being confronted by the Avengers.
Some random, odd, blended KMC Earth that has plenty of stuff both sides are normally used to?
That's fine for the discussion, too.
In fact, that's the assumption I've been basing submissions on.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Its as if you ... are instead trying to use whatever tools you can grasp your hands on to win.Scans of Tony Stark, also known as Iron Man, WITHOUT PREP (as the OP, or Original Poster, did not specify prep) using TELEPORTATION technology, to BFR someone offensively? You cannot, with a straight face, post scans of him using it as an escape route in AvX, or use examples of his PREPPED fight with Magneto, as an argument that he would do so here. Or his reflective suit, which he prepped for.
Its not about POWERSET, after all, right? And what the OP said, right?
Again, though, the OP presented a scenario fight.
Which means, again, according to KMC rules:
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the contestants in whose city/reality the fight takes place are allowed access to any material resources they usually have there or of any team they're active members of, as long as they can reasonably get to them ...
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Combine that with the CHARACTER of Iron Man Tony Stark.
Iron Man Tony Stark of the past few years, at least to my most current knowledge, has not been in some bulky purely external metal suit.
He has been using instead what people are calling "Bleeding Edge" armor.
The suit is stored internally. It is not metal but carbon NANOTUBES, just as you saw described in that fight with Magneto from earlier this year.
http://marvel.wikia.com/Iron_Man_Armor_Model_37
Bleeding Edge provides Tony with access and communications with satellites and other machines, which Tony, quite in character, utilizes every chance he gets.
Iron Man's all about tech and applying it the problems he faces, whether in the normal workday world, or in his role as an Avenger's hero.
THAT IS THE CHARACTER.
You can argue that Ares will not normally look to outside resources from his environment to any truly notable degree, and you will probably be right. Same for Prime. But you can't argue a current in character Iron Man not doing so. That IS is his character.
OP set a scenario matchup.
KMC rules say Avengers have access to stuff Tony can use.
Iron Man's character says Tony will use it.
You can call that "trying to use whatever tools you can grasp your hands on to win". At the end of the day, however, you ALSO have to acknowledge that is exactly what an in-character Iron Man in a scenario matchup on KMC will do.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You cannot, with a straight face, post scans of him using ...
his reflective suit, which he prepped for.
The mirror suit was just a heat reflective coating he could apply to his standard armor at the click of a button.
It wasn't a special suit he designed. Tony's got so many armors and names for them that they are hard to keep track of, but mirror suit wasn't one of them. It was just a feature of his more or less standard armor.
The situation was that Iron Man was being outmatched and pressed against a wall by someone in an otherwise superior Iron Style suit.
But Tony thought to himself:
"Wait a minute. I'm right near a hot laser cutter.
And my opponent is wearing a suit that was scrapped as something feasible because it reacts poorly to high heat.
Hmm..."
I understand the need of SBP side to characterize any reasoning put forth by the other team as desperation, but I specifically said I was treating the setting as a locale friendly to both sides, i.e. neutral.
Iron Man is not at all necessary for an Avengers win, and, indeed, has been largely uncovered in discussion, save for Juggerman, who rightly maintains that Stark will naturally assume a leadership/strategian role if left on the field.
World War Hulk easily supplies the force necessary to keep Prime at bay or even knock him out if we look at Prime's average of showings,
suited and sunned, in actual battles.
Make Prime impervious to Hulk level force and he'll be handled by the Odinson Travel Agency. Neither the electric storms nor the portals and gates Thor creates are direct magical assaults. Thor HAS magical lightning that he could use, but you'll notice that, in most of the showings I've given, he's only directing natural conditions. There's no more magic involved by Thor's portal creation or bringing a storm into an area to direct lightning bolts, rain, etcetera, than for Ororo Munro of the X-Men.
Tony Stark is not necessary for the success of the Avengers team.
In so many words, I said so many, many pages ago.
But Tony WILL make himself useful in a fight if he's not one of the 1st one or two people taken out.
And no fair discussion can omit what he brings to the table if he isn't.
Originally posted by bluewaterrideryou love to bring up scans and do research, here is a project for you, search how the bulk can be bfr'd. Ill even provide some hints, Spider-Man did it, Thor did it too. But prime doesn't need to BFR the hulk. He just grabs his throat and tears off his arms with his other hand.
Just out of genuine curiousity, how exactly is Prime BFRing Hulk in your scenario, and what exactly are you proposing War Machine, Rulk, Iron Man, and Thor are doing while this is happening?
Originally posted by Diesldude
you love to bring up scans and do research, here is a project for you, search how the bulk can be bfr'd. Ill even provide some hints, Spider-Man did it, Thor did it too. But prime doesn't need to BFR the hulk. He just grabs his throat and tears off his arms with his other hand.
Go somewhere with your Hulk hate. The teen titans koed Prime...using your logic, Hulk would punch his head off across the planet.