Originally posted by juggernaut74
Superman Returns sold 8,000 more tickets than Thor did and Batman Begins sold 10,000 more tickets than Captain America did. Just saying.
Money is all that counts.
Do you think 8,000 - 10,000 tickets counts more, than the extra $50 million more Thor grossed over Superman Returns? Thor, an expensive film, also cost as much as $70 million less to produce than SR, so it was also more profitable, as was BB in comparison to SR.
Originally posted by juggernaut74
Good point. Whedon said he wouldn't do Avengers 2 without him for a reason. A no-name actor and Supes can still make 700 mill WW, let's see if IM can do that.
It will pass IM 1 and 2 in dollars WW, so that is impressive for a character who thought wouldn't make it that far. 🙂
Originally posted by roughriderThe fact that those movies put more @sses in the seats is good enough for me.
Money is all that counts.Do you think 8,000 - 10,000 tickets counts more, than the extra $50 million more Thor grossed over Superman Returns? Thor, an expensive film, also cost as much as $70 million less to produce than SR, so it was also more profitable, as was BB in comparison to SR.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Batman is their fledgling franchise. No, as marvel is dominating them to the point of absurdity if we total their recent films together.Superman is an icon and for IronMan to come out of nowhere and built into a box office juggernaut shows how different the dynamic is nowadays.
IronMan destroyed an icon. The sad thing is the only really good dc films came to a conclusion in Batman.
Yeah but your acting as if he's only destroyed Dc icons. No, he's destroyed Marvel Icons as well. Captain America, Hulk and even Spider-Man.
I honestly wonder how much of that goodwill is down to Downey. Don't get me wrong, I love Iron Man. But when we're talking of his current Uberness in terms of box office, we all know A LOT of that is down to Downey.
Originally posted by roughrider
Who's destroying who?What's impressive about the very successful film debuts of Thor, Captain America and especially Iron Man, is they had virtually no pre-established history in live action (Cap had a 1940's serial, a couple of 1970's TV movies and a direct to video feature) and little in the way of animated appearances, especially compared to Spider Man, the X-Men and many DC heroes. It's also what's made Hulk a puzzle, with the mixed reaction to two (very different) film treatments. Prior to the release of the first X-Men movie, he would have been the second most known Marvel hero behind Spider Man to non-comic fans, because of the long running TV show. Only another film with him will tell if the Avengers finally solved it for him.
That's true. But IM' success is clearly on another level to even Thor and Captain America. I'm just reacting to the argument that DC is failing because IM3 destroyed MOS at the box office.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yeah but your acting as if he's only destroyed Dc icons. No, he's destroyed Marvel Icons as well. Captain America, Hulk and even Spider-Man.I honestly wonder how much of that goodwill is down to Downey. Don't get me wrong, I love Iron Man. But when we're talking of his current Uberness in terms of box office, we all know A LOT of that is down to Downey.
agreed.. without rdj, iron man would have s^cked, even the avengers would not have been the same
Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
agreed.. without rdj, iron man would have s^cked, even the avengers would not have been the same
IM1 was just really well done though all around. BUt still Downey gave it that spark. Would not have been the same movie at all without him.
Have to give Whedon HUGE credit for Avengers. Sad thing is WB had him on board once for a Wonder Woman movie.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Wow... I wonder how many Marvel movies would have as many holes poked in them as MOS seems to have been.
Marvel's volume of shit is far in excess of DC's, imo. Though their best stuff generally hits the right tone and seems to make a lot of money.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yeah but your acting as if he's only destroyed Dc icons. No, he's destroyed Marvel Icons as well. Captain America, Hulk and even Spider-Man.I honestly wonder how much of that goodwill is down to Downey. Don't get me wrong, I love Iron Man. But when we're talking of his current Uberness in terms of box office, we all know A LOT of that is down to Downey.
That's true. But IM' success is clearly on another level to even Thor and Captain America. I'm just reacting to the argument that DC is failing because IM3 destroyed MOS at the box office.
Prior to IM, what big films did he make? KKBB? That wasn't even a minor hit (though it was a great film, imo).
Sherlock came after IM, by which time his reputation had been turned around.
IM was a well crafted product, the choice of actor paid off but, it would have been just as good (if not better) had they gotten someone else like say Rob Lowe (who would be my pick for Tony Stark). Even Bradley Cooper would have played the role pitch perfect.
RDJ is great, but this is all revisionism. Attributing IM's appeal to his post-IM, "bankability".
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
IM1 was just really well done though all around. BUt still Downey gave it that spark. Would not have been the same movie at all without him.Have to give Whedon HUGE credit for Avengers. Sad thing is WB had him on board once for a Wonder Woman movie.
It wouldn't have been the same without RDJ but the movie was still better than Thor and Captain America in terms of plot. Anyways, I think it all comes down to decisions by studios on who they hire to direct, write, and play in their movies. If we take out RDJ, should we not take out Nolan as well? How would Batman Begins fair without Nolan but banked on Bale's celebrity status?
I think a lot of characters can become iconic if they get enough good media exposure and stories put out. Thor, Hulk, Superman, Blade, Captain America, Wonder Woman, etc. could all be on equal footing given the right people working on building their brand.
RDJ fit the Iron Man role perfectly. Reeves was and well always but Superman. Hugh Jackman is Wolverine. Ledger is the Joker. Hemworth is Thor. Huddleston is Loki. These characters become icon based on decisions made by their studios. Marvel made these decisions in the end. DC/WB are responsible for the new Batman trilogy and also at fault for creating those shitty Superman and Batman movies. The reasons for the success of either company is due to the decisions they make. Of course RDJ and Whedon contributed a lot those movies, but it was Marvel who decided to hire them for their projects.
Originally posted by janus77
Marvel's volume of shit is far in excess of DC's, imo. Though their best stuff generally hits the right tone and seems to make a lot of money.
Well you have that right with the word volume. Marvel has excess shit over DC because they have excess films. What has DC given us besides Batman and few mediocre Superman movies? A huge failure of a Green Lantern movie and a bunch of rumors about projects that should be coming out but never seems to happen. Did DC even put its label on Catwoman? If so, that might be the worst movie ever created.
So yeah, movies like Daredevil, Elektra, and Ghost Rider arent that great, but at least they tried. DC doesnt even have the balls to do that. They have failed so often, they are gun shy now. Instead of going ahead with new projects they just keep pumping out more and more Batman and Superman movies. I just hope the new GOTG movie doesnt suck, but I have a feeling it will.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERBeating Spider-Man is pretty telling but shredding the Superman reboot is unbelievable. I've said before the landscape is changing to the point of absurdity right now.
Yeah but your acting as if he's only destroyed Dc icons. No, he's destroyed Marvel Icons as well. Captain America, Hulk and even Spider-Man.I honestly wonder how much of that goodwill is down to Downey. Don't get me wrong, I love Iron Man. But when we're talking of his current Uberness in terms of box office, we all know A LOT of that is down to Downey.
That's true. But IM' success is clearly on another level to even Thor and Captain America. I'm just reacting to the argument that DC is failing because IM3 destroyed MOS at the box office.
Avengers and Ironman with more films of the way with a clear plan on moving forward as compared to Dc's lets hope we can churn out a hit and do the best we can from there.
I think the argument for DC in a nutshell is - they have finally solved the Superman conundrum with MOS. The only problem is, they are still stuck on only two guaranteed franchises - Batman and Superman. The failure of Green Lantern continues to be the problem moving forward, for a shared cinematic universe. MOS recaptured a previously secured piece of ground; and that's all. Vertigo adaptions like Watchmen and V For Vendetta are just one-offs (but somehow, they've made RED into a film series.)
Marvel has several more successful franchises going, but their quantity strategy over the last 15 years has resulted in a number of misses as well - Fantastic Four, Daredevil, and Punisher are some of those awaiting a successful re-imagining. Still, they are far in the lead.
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
It wouldn't have been the same without RDJ but the movie was still better than Thor and Captain America in terms of plot. Anyways, I think it all comes down to decisions by studios on who they hire to direct, write, and play in their movies. If we take out RDJ, should we not take out Nolan as well? How would Batman Begins fair without Nolan but banked on Bale's celebrity status?
True you could credit it to the studios decisions. I just think they were probably surprised themselves at what a box office draw Downey ended being as Iron Man.
And I agree IM1 was just a really good movie all around.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Beating Spider-Man is pretty telling but shredding the Superman reboot is unbelievable.
The Superman reboot is on route to doing almost as well as the Spider-Man reboot. So IM has "shreddded" them both just as much.
Fact is we know that shredding isn't just down to IM, but also down to Avengers. We can see from the box office draw of the 3 IM films, that IM3 clearly got a huge boost from Avengers.
That's something it seems Spider-Man will never get. But Superman can get that one day if a JL movie is done right.
Originally posted by tkitna
Well you have that right with the word volume. Marvel has excess shit over DC because they have excess films. What has DC given us besides Batman and few mediocre Superman movies? A huge failure of a Green Lantern movie and a bunch of rumors about projects that should be coming out but never seems to happen. Did DC even put its label on Catwoman? If so, that might be the worst movie ever created.So yeah, movies like Daredevil, Elektra, and Ghost Rider arent that great, but at least they tried. DC doesnt even have the balls to do that. They have failed so often, they are gun shy now. Instead of going ahead with new projects they just keep pumping out more and more Batman and Superman movies. I just hope the new GOTG movie doesnt suck, but I have a feeling it will.
IT'S NOT DC! People need to stop saying this, because it's WARNER BROS that is the studio and they are in the business to make more than just super hero movies. They never were in competition with super hero movies, they were in the competition to make as much money, if not more so than other studios and for the past decade or so, they have consistently been number 1 money maker, especially overseas, without pushing out multiple hero movies every year.
Originally posted by Golgo13
IT'S NOT DC! People need to stop saying this, because it's WARNER BROS that is the studio and they are in the business to make more than just super hero movies. They never were in competition with super hero movies, they were in the competition to make as much money, if not more so than other studios and for the past decade or so, they have consistently been number 1 money maker, especially overseas, without pushing out multiple hero movies every year.
Oh who cares what studio is handling the property? The discussion was how the two companies compared on the big screen (DC and Marvel), not which company cut the check.