Avengers: Age of Ultron

Originally posted by Firefly218
How was Loki treated like a punchline? Because of the Hulk scene or the Black Widow scene?

Loki's role was that of a crazy, jealous, demented alien who believes in his superiority to humans. He ****ed with the Avengers like a misbehaving child, which Tom Hiddleston played fantastically imo. He's not supposed to be a dire or scary villain.

Both of those plus the fact that he was bested in one form or another by all of the Avengers minus Cap. Even a dying Coulson embarrassed him with the laser cannon.

Hiddleston is indeed a great actor and his performance was excellent. But Loki wasn't nearly formidable enough to pose a proper challenge for the Avengers. You can have all the daddy issue pathos in the world and still be able to legitimately threaten the heroes. Loki just didn't do that.

Contrast that with how HYDRA was treated in Cap2. MUCH more effective. Cap still got to shine and kick ass but HYDRA had the upper hand through much of the conflict and it felt like a legitimate, hard-won, and well deserved victory for th heroes.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Both of those plus the fact that he was bested in one form or another by all of the Avengers minus Cap. Even a dying Coulson embarrassed him with the laser cannon.

Hiddleston is indeed a great actor and his performance was excellent. But Loki wasn't nearly formidable enough to pose a proper challenge for the Avengers. You can have all the daddy issue pathos in the world and still be able to legitimately threaten the heroes. Loki just didn't do that.

Contrast that with how HYDRA was treated in Cap2. MUCH more effective. Cap still got to shine and kick ass but HYDRA had the upper hand through much of the conflict and it felt like a legitimate, hard-won, and well deserved victory for th heroes.

You're shining a light on a non-existent issue though. The purpose of The Avengers was to unite a team of superheroes. The movie wanted to focus on the team, team dynamics, and team development. The villain was just a reason. The shock value of aliens invading earth was enough of a threat to bring together the Avengers, and then the point of the film was how the Avengers mesh. The point wasn't really about overcoming Loki, who imo is really an anti-hero.

Originally posted by Firefly218
Loki, who imo is really an anti-hero.

No but Loki in the Avengers was a shitty joke of a villain. He lost basically all of his development from Thor, as well as his competence.

He was the bitchiest nigga to ever be a nigga.

Let's face it, Loki was only there for sex appeal and tbh that's the only thing he needed to be in my eyes. I rate him 4/5 butts.

Originally posted by Firefly218
You're shining a light on a non-existent issue though. The purpose of The Avengers was to unite a team of superheroes. The movie wanted to focus on the team, team dynamics, and team development. The villain was just a reason. The shock value of aliens invading earth was enough of a threat to bring together the Avengers, and then the point of the film was how the Avengers mesh. The point wasn't really about overcoming Loki, who imo is really an anti-hero.

I'd mostly agree (except about that last part lol). But that doesn't change the fact that Loki was a shitty villain in that film. Sure, he was entertaining but he was ultimately little more than a glorified punching bag.

Originally posted by NemeBro
lol

No but Loki in the Avengers was a shitty joke of a villain. He lost basically all of his development from Thor, as well as his competence.

He was the bitchiest nigga to ever be a nigga.

Lost all development? After Thor 1, he got lost in space. According to Whedon, Loki went on some terrible walk about to the darkest corners of the Galaxy and became acquainted with some serious treachery the likes of Thanos.

So, he came back pretty ****ed up. Also, there were moments in Avengers where you could see Loki just wanted to go home. After what he did, Loki couldn't go home though.

Originally posted by ares834
I'd mostly agree (except about that last part lol). But that doesn't change the fact that Loki was a shitty villain in that film. Sure, he was entertaining but he was ultimately little more than a glorified punching bag.

He was a shitty villain according to y'all's standards, because he didn't beat on the Avengers, or talk in a gruff voice, or single-handily cause destruction, or scare the audience etc...

If he was all that, Avengers wouldn't have been as good of a film

He had a very particular role

He was a shitty villain because he posed no threat to the heroes. Which is, you know, usually the point.

But yes, he did an amazing job in his "particular role". That role being to be a fabulous punching bag for the heroes.

Thats like me saying joker was a shitty villain because anyone even the cops could have beaten his ass to a pulp physically if they chose to.
Yeah he has his mind games going on but he was roughed up by baleman and the cops.

dumb reasoning imo

He did pose a threat though.

Loki's plan wasn't to eradicate the Avengers and humanity. Loki was bat-shit crazy and was trying to rule the world as a God. His plan was inherently flawed because of his craziness, eventually leading to his ass being kicked. But the point is, he was a different kind of villain. Loki served the story perfectly, allowing reason for Cap, IM, Thor and Hulk to come together.

It wouldn't have worked if the first Avengers had a villain like Ultron, who's directly trying to kill the avengers.

Originally posted by Inhuman
Thats like me saying joker was a shitty villain because anyone even the cops could have beaten his ass to a pulp physically if they chose to.
Yeah he has his mind games going on but he was roughed up by baleman and the cops.

dumb reasoning imo

Except Joker was never a physical threat but a mental one. Heck, at the end he is victorious in a sense as he turned the city against Batman. Loki in the Avengers, however, wasn't a physical threat or a mental one. The heroes "one up" him in virtually every way and do so consistently throughout the story. Comparatively, in Thor, Loki is very much a threat despite the fact that Thor can manhandle him as he manages to become king and have his brother exiled.

Now sure, Loki did a great job in his role in Avengers. But that alone does not make him a good villain.

Originally posted by Inhuman
Thats like me saying joker was a shitty villain because anyone even the cops could have beaten his ass to a pulp physically if they chose to.
Yeah he has his mind games going on but he was roughed up by baleman and the cops.

dumb reasoning imo

No, it's like Tempest said a villain's effectiveness is measured in multiple ways. We're not just talking about his physical ability. Loki was pretty continually outfoxed, outfought and outmaneuvered in the movie and outright told to his face that he'd never even be allowed to rule earth if he won.

I think there's a disconnect in what makes a good villain.

Loki was a good villain.

Loki was a good character, I'd leave it at that

Loki was a fine villain, just deficient in some ways but very charming and cool in others.

Well, just got back from watching this and I quite enjoyed it. Lots of decent action, one-liners, and setup for the future films, though I probably still enjoyed The Winter Soldier a bit more.

Spoiler:
Funnily enough though, one of the most memorable moments for me had nothing to do with any action, but was when the Vision so nonchalantly passes Thor his hammer and everyone is just dumbstruck. I personally found Ultron very interesting as character (viewing humans as the problem yet modeling himself on them and trying to bring himself closer to them), but was a little disappointed with how little he actually did towards the end, and then getting taken out almost as an afterthought. And poor poor Quicksilver. Guess they are leaving him to Fox.

That scene made the whole audience gasp for me too. A real jaw-dropper. 👆

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, it's like Tempest said a villain's effectiveness is measured in multiple ways. We're not just talking about his physical ability. Loki was pretty continually outfoxed, outfought and outmaneuvered in the movie and outright told to his face that he'd never even be allowed to rule earth if he won.

👍👍👍

Has little to do with physical strength. But the bottom line is that the bad guy has to legitimately challenge the hero in a meaningful way. Loki didn't really do that. Great actor, great character. But a poor Big Bad for The Avengers.

Maybe Loki wasn't a very challenging villain, he was still a great villain. Imo of course

Originally posted by Firefly218
Maybe Loki wasn't a very challenging villain, he was still a great villain. Imo of course

👆

He was like Spike in Buffy. The likeable villain you wanted on the heroes side.