DARTH POWER
Senior Member
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Nah, Spike has held his own against Buffy and Angel multiple times.
It was the first episode he almost best her "apparently" until her Mom intervened. But since then she consistently kicked his butt.
Angel was a mook himself at first. He would just stand there and be helpless a lot when Spike was around, and only let Buffy deal with him. Until he turned into Angelus. Then he put Spike in his place pretty quickly. Spike was a threat to him at first in S3 when Angel was still recovering from coming back from Hell (as mentioned by Buffy in the episode Spike came back), but when Spike appeared in S1 of Angel, he was clearly no match for Angel without the Pedo torturer.
He also came back in Buffy in S4, where she defeated him even when he was wearing the gem of Amara? (the one that negates a Vampire's weaknesses). Then just before he got his chip he went on a rant about getting Buffy before getting taken out by a couple of soldiers.
Point being this was all Pre-Chip, Pre-Anti-Hero Spike.
Post-Chip Buffy wanted to know how Spike killed 2 other Slayers in S5, because that truly baffled her how he could do that.
Spike has been a huge threat, but has also been nerfed a lot. However he remained very likeable as a villain, hence why they began making him a reluctant Anti-Hero then eventually a full on Hero. Loki is very Spike like in that sense Imho.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
But like I said, it doesn't necessarily come down to martial prowess. Look at Alexander Pierce in Cap2. Total non-threat physically, but HYDRA was terrifically effective in that movie.
Exactly. He doesn't have to beat on each of the Avengers 1 v 1 to be a great villain. Although the only one who "truly" embarrassed him in combat was Hulk. And even then he wasn't KO'D, proving how difficult it would be for anyone whose not Hulk or Thor to defeat. Cap even remarked he didn't trust how easily him and IM captured Loki, implying Loki could possibly solo both of them together.
But even ignoring his indestructibility and physical prowess, let's get back to what really makes a villain a threat. Look what havoc Loki has consistently unleashed. Through his manipulations he got Thor de-powered in Thor1, took over Asgard and controlled the Destroyer. He actually killed Thor. It was only Odin's enchantment that saved Thor and put Loki back in his place.
In Avengers he's got hold of the Scepter with the mind gem, manipulated all of the Avengers sending Hulk on a rampage and duking it out with Thor. He had Hawkeye mind controlled the whole movie. Killed Coulson whilst Thor watched helplessly because he was trapped by Loki. Then sent Thor crashing down to Earth, and finally unleashed an alien army on the whole team. And all that without really any use of his indestructibility and physical prowess.
Yes he gets shot onto his butt now and then but I would point out his Physical Prowess can handle that. In fact no one who shot him on his ass is even capable of defeating him. And that includes IM imho.
Then by Thor2 he's again taken over Asgard without anyone suspecting a thing!
So even completely ignoring his indestructibility he's certainly a Villain to be reckoned with. His illusions alone make him a formidable opponent for almost any SuperHero.