DOTNG Infinity Man vs. Sentry, Nova Prime & Blue Marvel

Originally posted by Galan007
Huh?

OK I made an error, and I am going to correct myself, The Infinity Man does not make any sounds of being hurt. I just picked up the book now. But the idea of the Infinity Man having been taken aback by Superman's physical blows does not jive with a guy like Tyrant.

This is what the book says.

Superman: I'm capable of shattering a planet. If I pound away at anything long enough, it goes down! Even the prime agent of some deranged entity.

Infinity Man: Then it would be judicious of us to cut short your assault, and encase you within a prison of solidified light. This should hold you long enough for me to deal with him whom i actually came for.

Mr. Miracle: And that would be me?

My point is that Tyrant, or Odin would not have been taken aback by Superman, he would have one shotted him like Tyrant did to several herald level characters, Or when Odin one shotted the Silver Surfer. This is what does not jive with me.

Correct. Cogito posted the actual scans of that narration on the last page. However, Superman punching IM a few times =/= harming IM. They way I read it, IM tanked everything Supes dished out, hit him with more powerful attacks, then finally said: "phuck this, I'm wasting too much time with this game", and imprisoned Supes so that he could focus on Scott.

Also recall that IM killed New Gods like Takion(who, even as a n00b, was more powerful than Kyle+Captain Atom+Wally, and also momentarily held back the Godwave.) He also killed Black Racer(a personification of Death that was able to wtfpwn Superman with a literal twitch of his eye.)

IM was crazy powerful.

Originally posted by Galan007
Correct. Cogito posted the actual scans of that narration on the last page. However, Superman punching IM a few times =/= harming IM. They way I read it, IM tanked everything Supes dished out, hit him with more powerful attacks, then finally said: "phuck this, I'm wasting too much time with this game", and imprisoned Supes so that he could focus on Scott.

Also recall that IM killed New Gods like Takion(who, even as a n00b, was more powerful than Kyle+Captain Atom+Wally, and also momentarily held back the Godwave.) He also killed Black Racer(a personification of Death that was able to wtfpwn Superman with a literal twitch of his eye.)

IM was crazy powerful.

I see tanking something in a different light than you then it would seem.

IMO tanking something means that you are unmoved by it, like Juggernaut tanking Thor's best Mjolnir hit without moving, or Tyrant tanking Beta Ray Bills hammer toss with a smile, or Thanos smiling while being blasted in the face by the Silver Surfer, or Odin tanking Thanos' blast. This is what I call tanking a shot. The Infinity Man did not tank Superman's hits, he was actually taken aback by the hits. Like I said, he was clearly more powerful than Superman, but not by the stretch that Tyrant was clearly more powerful than Gladiator, Beta Ray Bill, and the rest of those powerful heralds. The only reason for this is one. Superman is leaps and bounds more powerful than the heralds that Tyrant wiped the floor with, if we accept what went on in his scrimmage with the Infinity Man, even if it flies in the face of his past showings against those that were as powerful as he is (Superman) or less powerful even. So as I said, this is exactly why it did not jive with me. I'm sure anyone reading my reasons can understand my stance, and why I refuse to give the Source empowered Infinity Man such lofty titles that need hard evidence in order to crown him with the Sky Father or beyond title.

I've always thought "tanking" was taking the brunt of the force of an attack, getting damaged but remaining relatively fine. What Tyrant did to BrB sounds more like a "no sell". Where the character takes an attack and barely even acknowledges it. It doesn't move or harm them in the slightest like when Korg punched Nova Prime and Nova barely noticed the blow.

Originally posted by dmills
I've always thought "tanking" was taking the brunt of the force of an attack, getting damaged but remaining relatively fine. What Tyrant did to BrB sounds more like a "no sell". Where the character takes an attack and barely even acknowledges it. It doesn't move or harm them in the slightest like when Korg punched Nova Prime and Nova barely noticed the blow.

Alright I'll swing on that determination. But the idea of Superman level characters being no sold by Tyrant has to raise more than my eyebrow in terms of questioning the validity of the Infinity Man's amplified power levels. There was on panel affirmation of Superman's power when he was locked in the solidified light prison by the IM.

To quote what was said; "Superman: I'm capable of shattering a planet. If I pound away at anything long enough, it goes down! Even the prime agent of some deranged entity.

Infinity Man: Then it would be judicious of us to cut short your assault, and encase you within a prison of solidified light. This should hold you long enough for me to deal with him whom i actually came for".

Originally posted by Stoic
What feats did the Source entity itself have to even compare it to an IG user? Thanos was battling guys that threw planets at him like you or I could throw baseballs, and they did this without even physically touching these planets. Thanos dealt with these guys as if he were dealing with chiggers and gnats. Yet the Infinity Man is nearly on the level of an IG user with even less power than the being that empowered him? Like I said before, we have our opinion, and I gave my reasons for believing that the IM was given power to specifically deal with New Gods. If he had waved his hand, and made Superman pass out, or KO'd him with a casual slap, I would be more than ready to admit that he was at least on an elite Sky Fathers level.

Plot armor does not sell it for me, because Superman was getting worked by several guys and things that are were far less than Elite Sky Father tier beings. Now if someone can not understand this, there is simply nothing that I can do about, unless they are suggesting that Orion, Shadow Demons, Kalibak & Mantis, are the equivalent of Odin. The IM was clearly more powerful than Superman, but not to the point that Tyrant would be above Superman. This after all is my prerogative and no one has to agree with me. I'm just saying that there is a lack of evidence, and certain things throughout historical canon concerning New Gods, Superman, and the Infinity Man does not jive with me.

I was talking about the part where he apparently only had the power to deal with New Gods.

Your entire basis for such an argument is one interaction with Superman and how you perceived it as going. That's not enough for a baseline or to make such an assumption, imo.

IM has always been at the very least Darkseid level, and he got amped by the Source. That much was stated, I thought.

Originally posted by Stoic
Alright I'll swing on that determination. But the idea of Superman level characters being no sold by Tyrant has to raise more than my eyebrow in terms of questioning the validity of the Infinity Man's amplified power levels. There was on panel affirmation of Superman's power when he was locked in the solidified light prison by the IM.

To quote what was said; "Superman: I'm capable of shattering a planet. If I pound away at anything long enough, it goes down! Even the prime agent of some deranged entity.

Infinity Man: [b]Then it would be judicious of us to cut short your assault, and encase you within a prison of solidified light. This should hold you long enough for me to deal with him whom i actually came for". [/B]

Cool beans. Continue on lol.

Originally posted by Stoic
I see tanking something in a different light than you then it would seem.

IMO tanking something means that you are unmoved by it, like Juggernaut tanking Thor's best Mjolnir hit without moving, or Tyrant tanking Beta Ray Bills hammer toss with a smile, or Thanos smiling while being blasted in the face by the Silver Surfer, or Odin tanking Thanos' blast. This is what I call tanking a shot. The Infinity Man did not tank Superman's hits, he was actually taken aback by the hits. Like I said, he was clearly more powerful than Superman, but not by the stretch that Tyrant was clearly more powerful than Gladiator, Beta Ray Bill, and the rest of those powerful heralds. The only reason for this is one. Superman is leaps and bounds more powerful than the heralds that Tyrant wiped the floor with, if we accept what went on in his scrimmage with the Infinity Man, even if it flies in the face of his past showings against those that were as powerful as he is (Superman) or less powerful even. So as I said, this is exactly why it did not jive with me. I'm sure anyone reading my reasons can understand my stance, and why I refuse to give the Source empowered Infinity Man such lofty titles that need hard evidence in order to crown him with the Sky Father or beyond title.

Juggernaut being unmoved/uninjured by a hammer-strike, is more akin to a no-sell(as someone else mentioned.)

Originally posted by -Pr-
IM has always been at the very least Darkseid level, and he got amped by the Source. That much was stated, I thought.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I was talking about the part where he apparently only had the power to deal with New Gods.

Your entire basis for such an argument is one interaction with Superman and how you perceived it as going. That's not enough for a baseline or to make such an assumption, imo.

IM has always been at the very least Darkseid level, and he got amped by the Source. That much was stated, I thought.

OK so instead of waving a hand, and making him pass out, or casually slapping his lights out, he decided to get into a physical brawl for all with Superman, and in doing so he just so happened to want to be taken aback by Superman's punches. The Infinity Man was an agent of the Source entity, and his purpose was to assassinate New Gods, which was the power that he was given.

There is on panel evidence to suggest that Superman would have made it more difficult for him to kill Scott. This quote says it all.

"Superman: I'm capable of shattering a planet. If I pound away at anything long enough, it goes down! Even the prime agent of some deranged entity.

Infinity Man: Then it would be judicious of us to cut short your assault, and encase you within a prison of solidified light. This should hold you long enough for me to deal with him whom i actually came for".

To inflate the Infinity Man to such lofty heights when he was unable to easily KO Superman without harming him overly too much has to raise more than just my eyebrow of the validity of regarding him in such esteem.

Darkseid was taken down by Superman when he cut loose and waged war with the New God himself, even embarrassing Darkseid to the point that he made a pact with Superman in order for him to remain silent after being soundly defeated after the conflict.

Is this something that another High Herald could not do if they had similar powers to Superman? What does that say about Darkseid himself in terms of placing him within a solid tier? Darkseid himself said that he and Superman were physical peers. This can not be challenged, as the statement itself was written as historical canon.

Is there a line that can be drawn on Superman's plot armor? Is he infinitely durable, and strong when the plot demands him to be, and thus falls outside of the no limits clause?

Yet, and here's the ticker kicker, you have people making statements that the Infinity Man is within reach of being as powerful as an IG user without any evidence to back such a statement up.

If the Infinity Man could not one shot Superman with a casual shot, slap, wave of the hand, stray stream of urine from his bladder, I simply can't see him stomping the Sentry, Nova Prime, or Blue Marvel. That's just the way I see it.

Using Superman as your sole reason for doubting, flies in the face of debating in the first place. We don't let one individual showing overrule an average.

It's not about Superman having a no-limits fallacy. It's about Starlin trying to make Superman not look useless in a book where he was, in the end, little more than a spectator. It's no different to guys like Thor and Wolverine not getting murdered when they should.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Using Superman as your sole reason for doubting, flies in the face of debating in the first place. We don't let one individual showing overrule an average.

It's not about Superman having a no-limits fallacy. It's about Starlin trying to make Superman not look useless in a book where he was, in the end, little more than a spectator. It's no different to guys like Thor and Wolverine not getting murdered when they should.

In that arc, the Infinity Man was an enigma, he was never seen on panel killing any of the New Gods, nor was it ever made clear as to what the amplification did to him exactly. Didn't the same Infinity Man show up later in a JSA book, and get into it?

This is not a good enough reason to decide to blur out Superman's conflict, and how well he did against the Infinity Man. Like I said Odin or any other elite Sky Father would have one shot KO'd Superman, whether Starlin wrote it, or Jurgens wrote it. I've already acknowledged that the Infinity Man was clearly more powerful than Superman from on panel evidence, but to say that he was so far above him does not jive with that same evidence that I have drawn my opinion from.

It's obvious that we aren't going to see eye to eye here, but you have to agree with me when I say how ridiculous it is for someone to inflate the Infinity Man to the levels of an IG user without a hint of evidence to support such a wild claim.

Let me ask you a question. Who in Marvel would you place the Infinity Man closest to in power, without ignoring Superman having taken his shots, and him being taken aback by Superman blows?

I don't know much about the IG, tbh, so I'm in no position to judge.

In Marvel? I don't know really... Standard Thanos, maybe?

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't know much about the IG, tbh, so I'm in no position to judge.

In Marvel? I don't know really... Standard Thanos, maybe?

If Thanos with the IG fought Superman, he would have made him explode by casually flicking him in the forehead. He would have also had a smile on face while doing so. I'm making this claim based on on panel showings of the amount of power than he had.

Originally posted by Stoic
If Thanos with the IG fought Superman, he would have made him explode by casually flicking him in the forehead. He would have also had a smile on face while doing so. I'm making this claim based on on panel showings of the amount of power than he had.

No he wouldn't, he would fight in character

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
No he wouldn't, he would fight in character

Didn't Thanos lower himself to the Heroes level to make for a more entertaining showing for his love?

In character he played with Abstract entities, and warped their very beings. So yes he had the power to do exactly what I said he could. Unless you are suggesting that Superman would give Thanos with the IG a good fight while not nerfing himself.

Originally posted by Stoic
Didn't Thanos lower himself to the Heroes level to make for a more entertaining showing for his love?

In character he played with Abstract entities, and warped their very beings. So yes he had the power to do exactly what I said he could. Unless you are suggesting that Superman would give Thanos with the IG a good fight while not nerfing himself.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Thanos nerved his cosmic awareness but kept the IGs powers, he turned Thor into Glass after that, something he couldn't do without the IG. I don't think that Superman could give a CISless IG Thanos a fight but it's in character for Thanos to give the Heroes a "chance".

While I understand what you are saying, my original statement was that Thanos had the power to make Superman explode with a flick to his forehead, which is a true statement. Who cares about that though. I mean really.

Originally posted by Stoic
While I understand what you are saying, my original statement was that Thanos had the power to make Superman explode with a flick to his forehead, which is a true statement. Who cares about that though. I mean really.

Because with your statement and your insight right now, you explained perfectly well why IM didn't just kill superman casually. It wouldn't be in character for IM to kill him, Supes is not a New God. He was beyond Supes and could have done so but like Thanos against the Heroes he granted him some hits, before he ended it his way.

Stoic your argument is not making any sense, plus your over analyzing the fight between Superman and IM who was holding back dramatically against Superman, and when IM got bored he imprisoned Superman in energy field. Then unleashed his true power against his main target, Miracle Man who had the ALE and they destroyed the source wall. IM was killing beings from sky father level in Takion to beings like Big Barda, Light Ray, Black Racer a Death God,Magnar, forever people etc, DOTNG IM is too much for this team, unless they get a cosmic cube they are dead meat.