ROTS Kenobi vs. Zone Anakin

The RotS novel plainly states that in the corresponding duel with Dooku, Anakin was in the first state, while in his duel w/ Kenobi, he was in the second. Your opinion on the matter doesn't change the facts portrayed therein said novel.

Yeah, that's not something they can wrap their heads around. To them, opinion>>>anything else.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
There are two types of Rage KT. There's a controlled rage where, while being enhanced by the darkness, the individual is in full control (both mentally and physically), being able to peer through the dark veil with clairty of mind. This can be seen in other aspects of life, aside from the fictional SW universe. It's seen in sports (i.e. boxing, MMA, wrestling, etc...) from time to time. It's what some call the "zone." Hence the term "Zonakin." And then there's the type of rage that fully engulfs oneself, and while enhancing the individual from a purely physical perspective (strength, speed, reflexes, etc...), the mind becomes a clouded mess that leads to irrational and mistake prone decision making, thus endangering the individual.

Anakin's risky and dangerous maneuvers were leaving him open every other second of that duel on Mustafar.

Anakin gave nothing to Dooku and the moves he hit were less risky but also less powerful.

Anakin needed more focus to pull off those moves against Obi-Wan without getting labotomized instantly, a more powerful and skilled master of lightsaber combat like Dooku actually may have destroyed Anakin at that power level because of how exhausting it is to defend after leaving yourself open by putting your master back on the defensive with perpetual blitz maneuvers.

But on the other hand if he grew twice as strong as Sidious he would utterly smash Windu while wearing himself out and being risky with moves Yoda wouldn't dare try. Vaderpotent, talk about Force speed, he'll be a blur to FOTJ Luke, Dark Empire Sidious, Plagueis, etc..

Form V sucks against Form III, but butchers Dooku's Makashi style. Anakin and Obi-Wan had Dooku figured out, that's the reason he learned to use Form V in the first place.

But against Obi-Wan he needed to make up for Form V's inability to break Soresu's defense by suping up the ante. And it would have worked if he had some more Force powers, stronger TK, Force lightning - if even out of one hand...or if he had just been as strong as Palpatine.

Anakin had virtually zero access to the more arcane and esoteric Force powers that Dooku, Sidious, Windu and Yoda had access to. Of course once he started down the Dark Path he demonstrated intuitive proficiency with it (Force choke) on his own, similar to Zannah, Palpatine, and Vitiate before they began their Sith training. Although Vitiate was more extreme because of his Sith lineage.

Anakin was too dangerous to be given that information because of his sensitivity and exponential power gains. The Jedi Order kept their top arcane knowledge out of Anakin's grasp, Palpatine was afraid to teach him such things even as a crippled cyborg because he still had more cells in his human body than Yoda did in his small alien body, and more midi-chlorians per cell. So even with half his Force potential he was still a threat to the most powerful Sith Lord in Star Wars. Even Obi-wan had a far greater knowledge of the Force than Anakin was allowed to have.

Even Darth Bane would acknowledge that when it comes to the Force, knowledge is power.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
How does that make any sense? There's such a huge differecne between Dooku and Obi-Wan that it would take more than just different styles for Obi-Wan to be equal/superior to Anakin.

It would be like saying Sidious > Dooku >>> Obi-Wan > Sidious.

Would that make any sense to you at all?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Fighting his teacher/mentor who knows him better than anyone. Your the one who pointed this out.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
When it's the will of the Force for a certain event to take place then nothing can stop it.

Anakin proved many times he was at least on par with Dooku. I don't think Kenobi was destined by the will of the Force to kill Grievous. Grievous has been battered by many Jedi and was probably destined to be killed by one in the end due to simply continuously playing out of his league, and his boss willing to betray him any time.

Vader WAS destined to kill Sidious. And it was only with the will of the Force on his side he was able to do that. He certainly wasn't as powerful as Sidious, that's for sure.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
No wrong analogy. Anyone can get lucky once. It's consistent showings that count. And I guarantee none of those above fights you've mentioned were an easy first round knock out like Dooku vs Obi-Wan was.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
It does because the difference between Dooku and Obi-Wan is just too large to write off to a difference of styles playing out.

Now I have the theory that the reason why Dooku got Obi Wan out of the way in that duel was because Palpatine instructed him to do so, therefore Anakin would kill Dooku, not Obi Wan accidentally.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
No because like I said One Off's happen.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
But Kenobi simply CAN NOT be on par with Anakin, because he lost too badly and too quickly to Dooku and an enraged Ventress. Anakin has handled himself much much better against both those opponents.

And you keep saying Anakin handled himself better against Ventress and Dooku. Doesn't mean much if he can't handle himself well against Obi Wan.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
We've seen him have his chance against Dooku at the end of the Clone Wars. When Kenobi is at his peak. And he was next to useless against him.

I concede to the point that Anakin's style was more effective when he was focused and could control his rage, rather than let it control him.

He wouldn't have become exhausted as fast.

He still add the power to out-maneuver and break his master's style, because he still had unlimited reserves of Force energy being awoken by his rage.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
How many times do we need to go over this...

Until you start listening to the responses your getting instead of just making your point and ignoring everyone else's.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Kenobi beat Anakin.. and a rage fueled Anakin... which was the key to him beating dooku... except he had even more rage.

And yet Kenobi was a joke to Dooku.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Kenobi beat him... and beat him clearly..

Yeah because Sith Anakin was out of control on an uneven terrain and a bit of a dumbass.

Jedi Anakin is far far smarter than Kenobi. Fact.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Anakin beating dooku is great but there is context to that fight and loss by Dooku.

You've been explained many times the "context" your applying is irrelevant since Anakin consistently performs much much better against Count Dooku (in the Clone Wars) than Kenobi ever could!

Stop ignoring the facts!

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Not to mention the fact that Anakin was also dismembered by Dooku and Kenobi wasn't...

Oh yeah let's go back to PADAWAN Anakin for you to have an argument.

Hey guess what? Count Dooku used to outspar Mace Windu pre-TPM. So he would have absolutely destroyed Mace when Mace was 15..

So I guess that's that, Mace Windu would stand no chance against Dooku in ROTS because Dooku beat him "oNce upon a time" right?

Great 👆

Originally posted by mnat801
Well you would be right, but the fact that Vader didn't take out Obi Wan like Dooku did in AOTC means my point isn't ridiculous. Both Anakin and Obi Wan became more skilled over the Clone Wars, and the only reason Obi Wan didn't make a comeback against Dooku at his peak is because Dooku suprised him with a force push, like 10 seconds into the fight.
Anakin would probably know Obi Wan better than anyone as well. So he should have had the same advantage as Obi Wan. Will of the force? Um ok...
Well its funny how you seem pretty sure of yourself, because it WAS a knockout.
The difference between Dooku and Obi Wan may have been great in AOTC, but seeing how Anakin improved throughout the Clone Wars, as well as Obi Wan (his fight with Maul and Opress), the difference would no longer be great. In Dooku's last duel, Obi Wan hardly had the chance to show off his saber skills etc due to a suprise force push.
Now I have the theory that the reason why Dooku got Obi Wan out of the way in that duel was because Palpatine instructed him to do so, therefore Anakin would kill Dooku, not Obi Wan accidentally.
Seeing that Vader and Kenobi faced each other only once, it is very unlikely for a one off to happen. And the way you make it sound like its so obvious that Anakin is clearly the superior warrior, there should be no chance at all of Kenobi beating him. So you can't just say Vader's loss is a one off!
Like I said, Obi Wan's loss to Dooku was in AOTC, the same time Anakin lost to him as well. And WHAT THE HELL. Kenobi never lost against Ventress, he just fell to the ground, and got back up in like 5 seconds.
And you keep saying Anakin handled himself better against Ventress and Dooku. Doesn't mean much if he can't handle himself well against Obi Wan.
Useless? All Dooku did was force push Kenobi. That's more cowardly than skillful.

You've lost it! Why do you keep bringing up AOTC? Dooku completely embarrassed Kenobi in ROTS!

What's this "suprprise" force push nonesense. He hit Obi-Wan with the Force TWICE. What was Obi-Wan caught off guard TWICE?! If he was then he's just not a good warrior in an all out. Definitely no match for Anakin.

But Nah he's just useless against Dooku when Force TK comes into place.

As for the Boxing thing. Knock Outs are common. What I said was First Round Knock Out!!! Not even a whole round considering Dooku took out Kenobi in a few seconds. Kenobi was just no threat to Dooku at all. And he had Anakin by his side for God's Sake!

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Yeah, that's not something they can wrap their heads around. To them, opinion>>>anything else.

Makes you pine for the days of Gideon, where people were ruthlessly persecuted for their failure to accept his wordcanon as law. What a talented bastard he was.

Pity he burnt out so quickly. The brightest flames, right?

It's my understanding that he didn't burn out so much as was stamped out by the oppressive vacuum of authority.

Even when he returned in pog sock form he was diminished. Slightly flaccid, one could say.

Nah, bro could still bring it. If the gap decreased, it was because others learned from his example and started to support their arguments with canon evidence.

I don't who this 'Gideon' character was... but he sounds Rubensian.

...............Are you calling Gideon fat?

Fathead...

What a douche.

I know, right?

Originally posted by Dolos
But this topic is asking that specific question, what if Obi-Wan never got the chance to exploit Anakin's arrogance.

What if that battle had continued and the only way for Obi-Wan to pull a win was to kill his apprentice in direct combat.

Despite Kenobi's proficiency with Soresu, he was beginning to get worn out by Anakin's relentless assault. That's the kind of powerhouse this guy was. He tore down Dooku in a matter of seconds, he had seemingly limitless reserves energy pouring out of him. Truly unlimited stamina, the power of continually breaking Kenobi's perfect Soresu defense kept coming and coming, Mace Windu himself would die of exhaustion doing what Anakin was able to do.

Anakin tore down Dooku in seconds, like you say, compared to like half an hour with Kenobi, where he didn't end up defeating him at all. Obi Wan was getting a little tired, but the fight really didn't get anywhere.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
It was his newly found Sith Arrogance making him stupid. A problem Jedi Anakin wouldn't even have. (And btw would could Obi-Wan have possibly done to him on even ground? Say they fought on Tatooine where Maul and Qui-Gon fought... Nothing. Obi-Wan's defenses would have eventually been battered).

Anyway Jedi Anakin was much much smarter than Obi-Wan. Fact. Deal with it mnat801. Deal with it.