Originally posted by JakeTheBank
And yet...
Not sure what you're trying to prove here outside of pointing out that Uatu and Watchers have less than redeeming moments...which every character does, including the likes of Odin and Surtur.
Originally posted by zopzopThat's supposed to be impressive? That was Owen when he had a FRACTION of the 1/2 Cube power he formerly had before his merger with post retcon Beyonder! Hell, Klaw OWNED his @$$ too.
😆Again not really impressive. Seeing how Doom with Aaron's power struggled to shatter IW's force fields and the backlash rocked both him and her! She was wrecked and he had to retreat to gather his senses.
😆 [/B]
😂
So you're legitimately going to stand here and tell me Watchers are, what, high heralds? Maybe trans-levels? When they clearly have multiple instances of doing shit waaaaaaaaay above the pay grade of the likes of Thor and others? And citing lower end spectrum feats to make a case to boot?
Geez, what feats do impress you?
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
-He destroyed a Galaxy via forging Twilight, yes.- Uatu has likewise battled across infinite rivers of reality on panel.
*He still destroyed a Galaxy, that's the point.
*I hope you're not suggesting that feat is comparable to what Odin did. Because it's not.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
-Thor can stagger, harm, and potentially kill a weakened Galactus. He can't stalemate Galactus straight up until the universe dies.
You missed the point of that feat. Alot of people have good showings against Big G, because he tends to suffer from the Worf effect. Sentry, for example, stalemated Galactus.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
-Uatu could have undid the Magus' machinations of universal manipulation if he felt inclined.-Watchers ressurect themselves as life and death aren't "absolute" as it is for most races.
-Watchers just tank universes exploding without the need for massive absorbing capabilities. Or they warp what they need to. Or create them.
*What does that even mean? Are you talking about when Magus had an incomplete I.G.?
*So, they can resseruct themselves, just like Odin can ressurect the dead. Cool.
*But, on average they lose to less.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankIn any case, Uatu is clearly and irrevocably beyond Thor. Hope that's put to rest.
Still below Surtur.
Originally posted by Classic NES
*He still destroyed a Galaxy, that's the point.*I hope you're not suggesting that feat is comparable to what Odin did. Because it's not.
You missed the point of that feat. Alot of people have good showings against Big G, because he tends to suffer from the Worf effect. Sentry, for example, stalemated Galactus.
*What does that even mean? Are you talking about when Magus had an incomplete I.G.?
*So, they can resseruct themselves, just like Odin can ressurect the dead. Cool.
*But, on average they lose to less.
Still below Surtur.
I know what the point is. Uatu has easily survived being in the midst of galaxies being destroyed. He's battled across infinite levels of reality. How is that any different than what Odin did, much less less impressive?
When did Sentry stalemate Galactus until the universe died? 😬 Spider-Man's hearsay isn't the gospel, especially considering Reed and the F4 have "stalemated" Galactus with context. A Watcher literally fought Galactus until they both died. Completely different than anything Thor or Sentry can or have done.
Uatu could have undone Magus merging the universe with his CCUs. What kind of warping has Odin or Surtur done to suggest it's even possible?
Completely different scales of resurrection. When Odin's dead, he's dead. He can't just decide to come back, otherwise, he would have the times he's died.
Do you want to prove that on average they lose to less? Because, Odin/Surtur, on average, don't bust galaxies and threaten universes.
Not really, no. Surtur hasn't displayed any notable powers without the sword to suggest he can match Uatu or another Watcher.
Originally posted by zopzopskyfathers in general have tons of powers, some rarely use them but they have tons of powers, shape shifting, telepathy ,telekinesis,matter manipulations etc
Without the Sword, or even with it really, what powers has Surtur demonstrated? Couldn't Uatu just go intangible and force a stalemate, because if he tries straight up attacking Surtur, Uatu's gonna wind up in the ER.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
😂So you're legitimately going to stand here and tell me Watchers are, what, high heralds? Maybe trans-levels? When they clearly have multiple instances of doing shit waaaaaaaaay above the pay grade of the likes of Thor and others? And citing lower end spectrum feats to make a case to boot?
Geez, what feats do impress you?
We also have MULTIPLE instances of Thor doing way more impressive sh|t than any Watcher. So that proves nothing. When they do fight, it's not impressive................at all.
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
skyfathers in general have tons of powers, some rarely use them but they have tons of powers, shape shifting, telepathy ,telekinesis,matter manipulations etc
Originally posted by zopzop
Trans. That's where I'd put them.We also have MULTIPLE instances of Thor doing way more impressive sh|t than any Watcher. So that proves nothing. When they do fight, it's not impressive................at all.
Yeah Big C, I know. Was just wondering out loud if there was any on panel stuff of Surtur doing anything exotic.
👆 Watcher seem overrated, IMO.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I know what the point is. Uatu has easily survived being in the midst of galaxies being destroyed. He's battled across infinite levels of reality. How is that any different than what Odin did, much less less impressive?
I'll just post the scans now and let them do the talking:
Originally posted by JakeTheBankWhen did Sentry stalemate Galactus until the universe died? 😬 Spider-Man's hearsay isn't the gospel, especially considering Reed and the F4 have "stalemated" Galactus with context. A Watcher literally fought Galactus until they both died. Completely different than anything Thor or Sentry can or have done.
I can bring up other Galactus low showings. That was the point btw, Galactus jobbing to make other characters look powerful.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Uatu could have undone Magus merging the universe with his CCUs. What kind of warping has Odin or Surtur done to suggest it's even possible?
How about the fact that he restored the universe after laying waste to it? As opposed to a statement claiming he could.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Completely different scales of resurrection.
I agree, a race of Billions> self resurrection.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankNot really, no. Surtur hasn't displayed any notable powers without the sword to suggest he can match Uatu or another Watcher.
Originally posted by zopzop
Trans. That's where I'd put them.We also have MULTIPLE instances of Thor doing way more impressive sh|t than any Watcher. So that proves nothing. When they do fight, it's not impressive................at all.
Yeah Big C, I know. Was just wondering out loud if there was any on panel stuff of Surtur doing anything exotic.
Thor's never easily sped up time millions of years or deaged someone to death or accessed multiple timelines and realities under his own power or fought Galactus for eons or displayed massive telepathic ability or TK or convert another "trans" being into pure energy or rearrange solar systems by thinking.
Yeah, Thor does have crazy good high end feats for a High Herald, but his best doesn't make him > a Watcher. That's ridiculous.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Thor's never easily sped up time millions of years or deaged someone to death or accessed multiple timelines and realities under his own power or fought Galactus for eons or displayed massive telepathic ability or TK or convert another "trans" being into pure energy or rearrange solar systems by thinking.
Thor has stopped time, travel through time, can transport himself anywhere in the Marvel U, manipulate all forms of energy and has pushed back Galactus.
Originally posted by Classic NES
I'll just post the scans now and let them do the talking:I can bring up other Galactus low showings. That was the point btw, Galactus jobbing to make other characters look powerful.
How about the fact that he restored the universe after laying waste to it? As opposed to a statement claiming he could.
I agree, a race of Billions> self resurrection.
So how exactly is a "shockwave rippling across every plane of reality" better than "war waged across infinite rivers of reality"? Short answer: it's not.
Which of Galactus' low showings is tantamount to anyone fighting him for eons until the universe dies? Nothing Thor or Sentry did comes close to that kind of power. At all. And yeah, Odin and Surtur have low showings as well, including being phased by the likes of Thor to shit like attacked by invading space ants. Watchers aren't unique in that regard, let's be honest.
Considering everything else Watchers have done on panel, including creating universes, there's no reason to believe he couldn't have done it if he felt like breaking his oath...which he does fairly often, all things considered.
Point missed, but okay.
And we've already established that Watchers no sell galaxies being destroyed and can survive universal destruction or at least fight until the universe is destroyed when they want to. What other powers does Surtur have to match incredible spatial/time manipulation, TK, TP, etc?
Originally posted by Classic NES
Thor has stopped time, travel through time, can transport himself anywhere in the Marvel U, manipulate all forms of energy and has pushed back Galactus.
His displays of time manipulation are just about infinitely inferior to Uatu's, as are his displays of teleportion. Him pushing back and effecting Galactus is completely different than actually fighting him until the universe literally dies.
Thor is nowhere close to Watcher level in power unless you take his exclusive high end feats without the context and simultaneously ignore theirs.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So how exactly is a "shockwave rippling across every plane of reality" better than "war waged across infinite rivers of reality"? Short answer: it's not.Which of Galactus' low showings is tantamount to anyone fighting him for eons until the universe dies? Nothing Thor or Sentry did comes close to that kind of power. At all. And yeah, Odin and Surtur have low showings as well, including being phased by the likes of Thor to shit like attacked by invading space ants. Watchers aren't unique in that regard, let's be honest.
Considering everything else Watchers have done on panel, including creating universes, there's no reason to believe he couldn't have done it if he felt like breaking his oath...which he does fairly often, all things considered.
Point missed, but okay.
And we've already established that Watchers no sell galaxies being destroyed and can survive universal destruction or at least fight until the universe is destroyed when they want to. What other powers does Surtur have to match incredible spatial/time manipulation, TK, TP, etc?
The Ecce/Galactus fight isn't canon.
When did Watchers survive "galaxies" being destroyed? I know Uatu survived "many" solar systems being destroyed. That's not the same thing.
Also, didn't they create a "POCKET" universe? Not the same thing as creating an actual universe replete with it's own abstracts and concepts.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So how exactly is a "shockwave rippling across every plane of reality" better than "war waged across infinite rivers of reality"? Short answer: it's not.
Because one is an actual quantifiable feat. We can measure the destructive capacity of one Odin and Seths feat as opposed to the watcher.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Which of Galactus' low showings is tantamount to anyone fighting him for eons until the universe dies? Nothing Thor or Sentry did comes close to that kind of power. At all. And yeah, Odin and Surtur have low showings as well, including being phased by the likes of Thor to shit like attacked by invading space ants. Watchers aren't unique in that regard, let's be honest.
What's your point?
It's a low showing for Big G period. But, if you wanna bring up low showings, I'll follow suite and bring up Rulk. 🙂
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Considering everything else Watchers have done on panel, including creating universes, there's no reason to believe he couldn't have done it if he felt like breaking his oath...which he does fairly often, all things considered.
But he didn't. . .
This goes back to my whole point of on-panel feats versus character rank.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankAnd we've already established that Watchers no sell galaxies being destroyed and can survive universal destruction or at least fight until the universe is destroyed when they want to.
But, can they destroy galaxies and universes?
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
What other powers does Surtur have to match incredible spatial/time manipulation, TK, TP, etc?
Odin has those abilities and surtur still killed him. So, it's obvious that Time/space manipulation won't be of help
Originally posted by Classic NES
Because one is an actual quantifiable feat. We can measure the destructive capacity of one Odin and Seths feat as opposed to the watcher.What's your point?
It's a low showing for Big G period. But, if you wanna bring up low showings, I'll follow suite and bring up Rulk. 🙂
But he didn't. . .
This goes back to my whole point of on-panel feats versus character rank.
But, can they destroy galaxies and universes?
Odin has those abilities and surtur still killed him. So, it's obvious that Time/space manipulation won't be of help
That's ridiculous. According to the narration, the end result was ultimately the same: massive energy output washing over a war that was waged on and effected infinite/every plane of reality.
AGAIN not the same thing. Hurting Galactus or even beating him is completely different than doing it until the end of time and the universe dies. That's not hard to understand. By all means, bring up Rulk. It's not equal to the lowest showings of Odin or Surtur, which I wouldn't even bring up anyway for the same reason: it's a low showing and not indicative of their normal prowess.
Okay. On panel, they displayed feats to justify warping on a universal level including creating universes (which, yes, I'm aware Odin has done).
I'd wager they can, yes, based off of what they've done and can do on panel.
Odin didn't use them on Surtur, either. And Surtur killed Odin thanks to some context which won't apply to Uatu here. And Odin hasn't displayed some of the feats Watchers have done on the same scale, either, so it's a moot point. And we know for a fact that Surtur can be BFRed, which is well with Uatu's ability.