Originally posted by juggermanSo basically pre-flashpoint comic Lex? 👆
I loved the Lex in Young Justice abd i think film Lex should resemble that version. He should be 2 steps ahead of everyone. He needs to have a contingency plan for his contingency plan.EDIT: And at the end he should either get away with his hidden plan ala Ozy in Watchmen or Superman should stop his plan but Lex should remain untouchable. None of that jail crap
I was reading some of the recent comments and I really do not understand what is so hard to understand as to why some people are dissatisfied with MOS movie.
Hulk nor any of the other characters within the Avengers are Superman. If the same expectations were expected of every superhero then no one would standout or be special.
Avengers
The theme was set for the movie Avengers from the beginning of the movie. Everyone watching the movie new that superheroes were being gather together to fight a war that would dictate the fate of man. So, of course there was going to be damage and casualties however the director did a good job of directing attention of the movie viewers on focusing on the heroes defeating the bad guys.
What many people are failing to see is that people are not necessary complaining about the damage that was caused in MOS but how it was caused and how Superman reacted to it.
In Superman II from the start of the fight with Zod and his companions we see Superman looking at his surrounding, the director is clearly showing that Superman is aware of the where the battle is taking place and conscious of the damage that would be caused. This was so prevalent that Zod notice it as a weakness.
We do not see this in MOS. Yes, he is just starting out as Superman, but that is really not an excuse. In MOS we never see Superman try to take the fight out of the city or use his brain to try to direct Zod to fight him somewhere outside of the city. It was just a fight scene that you could have done with any action figure but not a representation of Superman.
I do not see why this is so hard for people to comprehend. If you like the movie good but please do not criticize people for making valid complaints about MOS movie.
Originally posted by Kotor3Stop saying perfectly logical things. It throws off some people's crunchy mellow, man.
I was reading some of the recent comments and I really do not understand what is so hard to understand as to why some people are dissatisfied with MOS movie.Hulk nor any of the other characters within the Avengers are Superman. If the same expectations were expected of every superhero then no one would standout or be special.
Avengers
The theme was set for the movie Avengers from the beginning of the movie. Everyone watching the movie new that superheroes were being gather together to fight a war that would dictate the fate of man. So, of course there was going to be damage and casualties however the director did a good job of directing attention of the movie viewers on focusing on the heroes defeating the bad guys.What many people are failing to see is that people are not necessary complaining about the damage that was caused in MOS but how it was caused and how Superman reacted to it.
In Superman II from the start of the fight with Zod and his companions we see Superman looking at his surrounding, the director is clearly showing that Superman is aware of the where the battle is taking place and conscious of the damage that would be caused. This was so prevalent that Zod notice it as a weakness.
We do not see this in MOS. Yes, he is just starting out as Superman, but that is really not an excuse. In MOS we never see Superman try to take the fight out of the city or use his brain to try to direct Zod to fight him somewhere outside of the city. It was just a fight scene that you could have done with any action figure but not a representation of Superman.
I do not see why this is so hard for people to comprehend. If you like the movie good but please do not criticize people for making valid complaints about MOS movie.
Originally posted by Kotor3
We do not see this in MOS. Yes, he is just starting out as Superman, but that is really not an excuse. In MOS we never see Superman try to take the fight out of the city or use his brain to try to direct Zod to fight him somewhere outside of the city.
What about when they went into space?
Him starting out as Superman isn't an excuse, it's a reason, and is one that follows the lore pretty consistently to boot, when you consider his inexperience with his powers.
If the sequel has him being vastly experienced with his powers and yet is shown not to minimise damage as much as possible, then I'll be right there with people complaining. Until then, I feel people are holding him to a standard that is unrealistic. It's a standard that, imo, can only really be applied to an experienced Superman.
Originally posted by -Pr-
holding him to a standard that is unrealistic. It's a standard that, imo, can only really be applied to an experienced Superman.
I agree the standard is unrealistic but you've also got to accept that this standard (of Superman's expectations) is also iconic.
Regardless of all the previous movies & various incarnations of Superman, one thing people expect this one hero to abide by is, "Truth, Justice & The American Way." It doesn't matter if it's the 1st film in a franchise reboot or an origin's story of Superman finding his powers & learning his place in this world, it's simply a given that Superman will always save lives & not be responsible for the death of humanity.
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
I agree the standard is unrealistic but you've also got to accept that this standard (of Superman's expectations) is also iconic.Regardless of all the previous movies & various incarnations of Superman, one thing people expect this one hero to abide by is, "Truth, Justice & The American Way." It doesn't matter if it's the 1st film in a franchise reboot or an origin's story of Superman finding his powers & learning his place in this world, it's simply a given that Superman will always save lives & not be responsible for the death of humanity.
...and, even while weakened, he still managed to save the entire planet from annihilation. I mean, doing what he did against an invasion force of Kryptonians is, imo, already an absolutely herculean task.
Originally posted by -Pr-
...and, even while weakened, he still managed to save the entire planet from annihilation. I mean, doing what he did against an invasion force of Kryptonians is, imo, already an absolutely herculean task.
Yes, agree.
And although we have flash backs of Clark saving a school bus of kids & then later, crew on an oil-rig....this is one Superman movie where we don't really see The Big Blue BoyScout saving those whose trust he asks for. This is one film where he views Zod as the bully he can finally stand up to, regardless of the consequences.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Him starting out as Superman isn't an excuse, it's a reason, and is one that follows the lore pretty consistently to boot, when you consider his inexperience with his powers.If the sequel has him being vastly experienced with his powers and yet is shown not to minimise damage as much as possible, then I'll be right there with people complaining. Until then, I feel people are holding him to a standard that is unrealistic. It's a standard that, imo, can only really be applied to an experienced Superman.
I do not agree that it is an unrealistic expectation.
The point is his powers or lack of experience with his powers is not a good enough excuse or reason. Once again if you look at Superman II, Superman left the city because it did not matter how experience he was with his powers, there was no way to limit the damage that was going to be caused.
Simply put, in MOS, Zod needed Superman more than he did in Superman II. He would have travelled anywhere to obtain Superman. The writers and directors did not give Superman (33 year old man) the intellect to try and move the fight outside of the city.
All everyone wanted to see was for him to try.
Originally posted by Kotor3
What about it? My comparison is concerning the battle scenes.Lets remember, in the scene you mentioned he allowed Lois to be taken. Thus, humans were not out of danger.
Uh... he went into space during this battle scene you speck of.
No that was a different scene. During his fight with Zod, Kal took it into space but Zod took it right back to the city. And is Lois didn't come Zod would have attacked the Earth. Are you really saying that allowing Lois to go was putting more humans in danger than if he refused?
Originally posted by Kotor3
I do not agree that it is an unrealistic expectation.The point is his powers or lack of experience with his powers is not a good enough excuse or reason. Once again if you look at Superman II, Superman left the city because it did not matter how experience he was with his powers, there was no way to limit the damage that was going to be caused.
Simply put, in MOS, Zod needed Superman more than he did in Superman II. He would have travelled anywhere to obtain Superman. The writers and directors did not give Superman (33 year old man) the intellect to try and move the fight outside of the city.
All everyone wanted to see was for him to try.
In MoS most of the destruction happened before he even got there. He was on the other side of the world saving mankind. By the time he arrived the buildings were empty so him fighting in the air and around buildings was him taking the fight away from the humans on the street.
And again he did try. You just didn't seem to notice/care.
Originally posted by juggerman
In MoS most of the destruction happened before he even got there. He was on the other side of the world saving mankind. By the time he arrived the buildings were empty so him fighting in the air and around buildings was him taking the fight away from the humans on the street.And again he did try. You just didn't seem to notice/care.
WOW! This is certainly one way to look at things.
To put this in perspective according to you and some others:
• MOS displays no more damage than any other superhero movie
• The damage is not Superman’s fault is it is Zod and the World Engine
• There were no people in the buildings so no one died. Superman was taking away the fight from humans on the street who were not near any of the buildings that were falling.
• Superman could not escape Zod even though he tried by going out in space, and take the fight outside the city because he did not know enough about his powers.
• In the end he saved mankind and that is what counts.
Let me know if I am missing anything.
If, that is the movie you saw and the way you and others see things, then OK.
I and some others definitely saw a different movie.
Originally posted by Kotor3
WOW! This is certainly one way to look at things.To put this in perspective according to you and some others:
1 MOS displays no more damage than any other superhero movie
2 The damage is not Superman’s fault is it is Zod and the World Engine
3 There were no people in the buildings so no one died.
4 Superman was taking away the fight from humans on the street who were not near any of the buildings that were falling.
5 Superman could not escape Zod even though he tried by going out in space, and take the fight outside the city because he did not know enough about his powers.
6 In the end he saved mankind and that is what counts.Let me know if I am missing anything.
If, that is the movie you saw and the way you and others see things, then OK.
I and some others definitely saw a different movie.
Numbered your points to make things easier.
1. No one said it didn't have more, but people are bashing it like other SH movies had not destruction whatsoever
2. Pretty much. Unless you care to point out what exactly was Superman's fault
3. We saw no one in the buildings unlike in the Avengers when Hulk was crashing thru fully occupied buildings with no regard for anyone that may have been in his path.
4. Are you saying their were people in the air that they could have bumped into? And i never said the falling buildings couldn't hurt anyone but when exactly did Kal knock Zod thru a building?
5. Did you miss the part with him going into space and Zod knocking him right back down? And Kal could not just leave the city since Zod threatened to kill all the humans and couldn't fly at first. Kal leaving would have just left the humans at his mercy. Guess you went to see Superman: Zod kills all humans while Clark just runs away!
6. Is that not what counts? Maybe he should have only saved the city and let Zod destroy the rest of the world eh?