Re: DE Sidious and Lord Vitiate
Originally posted by Kotor3
What duo (Jedi, Sith, or combination) can take on DE Sidious and Lord Vitiate in a all out battle?
Luke Skywalker (FOTJ), Yoda (ROTS), Mace Windu (ROTS), Revan (Post Revan: TOR series), Satele Shan (TOR MMO) and the Starkiller Clone (TFU II).
Son and Abeloth could take out the duo as well.
And finally, Father and Daughter could take them out.
Son could solo if he was in possession of the Dark Staff (because he could overpower it's will and wield it to a more devastating extent than all these lists put together).
I believe Darth Nihilus and Son, or Abeloth and Darth Nihilus might could pull off a win as well.
Not familiar enough with Satele, but Revan is definitely the weakest link here. Marek or Yoda would make mincemeat of Vitiate. If we go strictly by highest showings and not PIS/nerf-age, then Luke could beat them. Mind control won't work and Luke's combat feats outstrip either of them. Perhaps not together, but definitely one-on-one.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Not familiar enough with Satele, but Revan is definitely the weakest link here. Marek or Yoda would make mincemeat of Vitiate. If we go strictly by highest showings and not PIS/nerf-age, then Luke could beat them. Mind control won't work and Luke's combat feats outstrip either of them. Perhaps not together, but definitely one-on-one.
As far as combat Vitiate could pwn any of those Jedi 1 on 1 without using his lightsaber, and thoroughly I might add. Think Abeloth in her avatar bodies times a billion in Force powers. Although Abeloth wasn't very talented compared to Vitiate, though she did pull off incredible feats of destruction beyond Vitiate's immediate ability: leveling a city, and generating a much more massive blast comparable to an atom bomb using the technique known as Dark Side Energy Containment.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Not familiar enough with Satele, but Revan is definitely the weakest link here. Marek or Yoda would make mincemeat of Vitiate. If we go strictly by highest showings and not PIS/nerf-age, then Luke could beat them. Mind control won't work and Luke's combat feats outstrip either of them. Perhaps not together, but definitely one-on-one.
Even in terms of power in the Force; Vitiate can (logically) handle either; singlehandedly at minimum. Reason is that some dark side prodigies already serve Vitiate; and this is an indication of his incredible power.
The greatest mistake that you make in your assessment is that you only look at feats without trying to comprehend that how a character has been promoted within the Star Wars environment.
This is your mindset:
Yoda lifted an X-Wing; he is bad@ss. Fact is that some dark side prodigies serving Vitiate could do the same as well. So just because we did not see Vitiate performing this feat; doesn't means he cant or is weaker then Yoda or something. Only thing is that Vitiate's story isn't so much explored in terms of telekinetic feats. Same is true for Revan.
Also, how is Revan the weakest link here? The best opponent that Marek beat is Vader, correct? Revan have arguably done better.
Originally posted by -kV-
Just how good is Revan? I never ended up reading Drew's book, although I know the Emperor overpowers him. And did something ever happen with him after that Sith mission in TOR game, where he disappears in a flash of light?
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Revan:Meetra's assessment of Revan:
It was easy to understand how Scourge could be drawn to him; Revan's command of the Force was greater than that of anyone else she had ever met.
Keep in mind that Meetra have contended with Sith Triumvirate. Still need any explanation?
About Darth Sion;
This left him in eternal pain, his broken body held together only by his hatred and power of the dark side. Sion was exceedingly difficult to kill, because his mastery over his own body granted him supernatural vitality. (Star Wars The Complete Encyclopedia)
&
Kriea confronted Darth Sion in order to ensure that Exile would be able to escape. She barely survived the encounter, in which she lost the use of one hand. (Star Wars The Complete Encyclopedia)
About Darth Traya;
After the Jedi Exile traveled to Onderon and defeated General Vaklu, Kriea realized her "pupil" was growing in strength and would become a threat to her truimverate of power. She tried to kill her on Dantoonie but fled. After the deaths of Darth Nihilus and Darth Sion, Darth Traya was the only surviving member of her Order, and she lost her life in her final showdown with the Jedi Exile. (Star Wars The Complete Encyclopedia)
Keep in mind that Darth Traya WTFpwned those 3 Jedi Masters who attempted to punish Meetra Surik after the Jedi Civil War.
Lord Scourge, was an expert swordsman, and matched Meetra Surik in strength. This was apparent from his accomplishments as he had killed hundreds of Force-wielders during his life-time. He could cipher energies from (organic) opponents to fuel his own power during his duels.
Both Lord Scourge and Meetra Surik, depite being FAR ABOVE AVERAGE, stood no chance against an extraordinarily powerful Force-wielder; Darth Nyriss (who was plotting to overthrow the Sith Emperor). And when Darth Nryiss engaged Revan in combat; she was destroyed. This shows how powerful Revan was (Champion of the Jedi Order); able to blitz through entire armies; being able to draw power from both the light and dark sides of the Force simultaneously; handling heavy objects like fodder; and vice versa.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
I'm not familiar with Satele to know where she ranks, but of the others [whose feats with which I am familiar] Revan is the weakest.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t572462.html
You have short memory, it seems.
More explanation:
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
To understand the power of Revan and Satete, it is important to focus on their combat history and how good their opponents were.Darth Malgus: (One of the greatest opponents of Satele Shan)
http://www.swtor.com/info/media/trailers/return
This duel ended with Malgus emerging victorious. The Jedi Master he cut down was extraordinarily talented in lightsaber dueling arts and his command of the Force was also impressive (as you can see in this footage). Malgus's Master was no match for Darach in the Force despite packing strong defensive abilities (He easily tolerated a direct missile hit and absorbed its blast as an example). Later on, Darach hurled a Starship Engine towards Malgus like a missile. And even this formidable attack didn't stop Malgus; such was his strength. So if Malgus could bring down such a powerful Jedi Master in his junior days; think about it that how strong he would have been during his battle in Aldeeran.
http://www.swtor.com/info/media/trailers/hope-cinematic-trailer
You see what kind of feats Satele performed as a Jedi Knight in this duel?
Malgus afterwards faced two more Jedi on the same planet but at a different place. This battle has been explored in a source called The Third Lesson.
During this battle, a Jedi Master collapsed two buildings on the position of Malgus. The Sith Lord was trapped within a mountain of rubble with a chunk of it landing on top of him. However, Malgus prevented tons of rubble from crushing him. He then blew that heavy rubble apart and climbed out of the mountain of rubble to fight the Jedi. The duel was very intense. During the fight, Malgus sensed presence of another Jedi nearby even though this Jedi has masked his connection with the Force (But Malgus's telepathic abilities were amazing); he send the Jedi Master packing with a Force-augmented kick; used the Force to pull the hidden Jedi out from his place of hiding; and crushed his windpipe. The Jedi Master once again attempted to subdue Malgus but the latter Sith unleashed such a powerful blast of Force Lightning that couldn't be repelled by even two lightsabers and this burst of Force Lightning mortally wounded the Jedi Master who died from his injuries afterwards. This entire performance after Malgus was mortally wounded from his battle with Satele Shan; very impressive.
So now try to comprehend that how powerful Satele Shan would have become when she became the Grand Jedi Master. She could also perform shatterpoints like Mace and Luke, blow droids from inside-out like Luke, and even survive in space by using the Force (unlike anyone; if memory serves me correctly).
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Long time; bro.
Yeah man, it's good to see you again. Dare I say I'll be somewhat active during my upcoming Winter Break, but once uni starts, the hiatus may resume again. Hopefully not!
But d@mn, sounds like Revan is still as powerful as ever. Out of curiosity, where would you rank him? I remember I once had him at 5 or 6 among the best Jedi ever.
Originally posted by -kV-
Yeah man, it's good to see you again. Dare I say I'll be somewhat active during my upcoming Winter Break, but once uni starts, the hiatus may resume again. Hopefully not!But d@mn, sounds like Revan is still as powerful as ever. Out of curiosity, where would you rank him? I remember I once had him at 5 or 6 among the best Jedi ever.
From the novel:
To put it in short words; Revan have been promoted as one of the most powerful Jedi in history. He has been touted as the "Jedi Order's greatest champion."
Revan have impressive history against the Mandalorians;
1. Revan legitimately defeated Mandalore the Ultimate in single combat.
Realizing defeat was inevitable, Mandalore the Ultimate had challenged Revan to single combat, and Revan had accepted.
Though the Mandalorian fought valiantly, in the end he was no match for the Jedi Order’s most powerful champion.
In the novel, Mandalore the Ultimate have been acknowledged as the most skilled and powerful Mandalorian when alive. Canderous Ordo have been acknowledged as second to him in terms of skill.
2. Revan also fought plenty of Basilisks (gigantic droids with Mandalorian riders) and destroyed them during the war. One such fight has been depicted in the novel as well but this fight takes place after the Jedi Civil War.
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According to Meetra Surik (Jedi Exile); Revan understood Force in the ways that none others did. He proved his prodigious combat abilities during his confrontation with Darth Nyriss.
Only the Sith Emperor (who was the strongest Sith Lord in the Galaxy and surpassed all other Sith Lords in power) could stop Revan. However, Revan pushed even this opponent to his limits due to his unpredictable talents. This duel also forced the Sith Emperor to adopt Voices rather then to use his original body. In over a thousand years of span; no other opponent gave Sith Emperor so much trouble or proved to be a big threat.
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Force powers wise, Revan isn't much explored in the novel.
1. He had no trouble handling heavy objects with the Force. He could instantly hurl heavy objects like missiles towards his targets; shatter larger stone sturctures; and blow open gigantic/heavy gates simultaneously. Revan performed all of these feats comfortably with mere guestures.
2. He could draw strength from both the light and dark sides of the Force. This made him unpredictable in combat situations.
3. He could use his bare hands to absord and deflect Sith powers like very lethal bursts of Force Lightning. (like Yoda)
4. He could heal sever injuries with the Force without the need of medical attention.
5. He could resist the effects of poisons and drugs with the Force without external help.
6. Telepathically, he could influence even the greatest of telepaths in history.
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Revan's precognitive abilities were very impressive. He cut-down an Imperial Guard (empowered by the Sith Emperor) in a few steps. Combat skills wise, an Imperial Guard individual could tangle with an expert lightsaber duelist (Jedi and/or Sith); however, Revan had no trouble with such an opponent.
Here;
One of the guards battling Meetra broke off and tried to cut Revan off. The Jedi gathered himself and leapt high in the air, tucking his knees in tight to somersault over his opponent. The guard reacted to the unexpected move a fraction too slowly, his electrostaff slicing through the air above his head and missing Revan by only a few centimeters.
Revan landed on the ground and wheeled around to face the other man. He thrust out with the Force, the impact hitting the soldier square in the chest. Instead of sending him flying, it only staggered him back half a step—this close to the Emperor they were sworn to protect, the guards were able to draw on his power to protect themselves.
Still, the slight stumble gave Revan enough time to draw his lightsaber and go on the offensive. He came in with a high, overhand chop—an obvious feint meant to draw the defenses of his opponent upward, leaving his legs exposed to a quick follow-up strike.
The guard recognized the familiar ploy, countering it by parrying the overhand chop then quickly dropping his blade low to intercept the inevitable slash at his legs. Only Revan didn’t go for his legs. Anticipating that his opponent’s defenses would go low, he kept his blade up high, allowing him to end the battle with a horizontal cut across the man’s suddenly exposed throat.
The Imperial Guard held-up to its reputation by giving tough time to both Scourge and Meetra; who were EXPERT lightsaber duelists.
Learn more about the Imperial Guard here: http://www.swtor-spy.com/codex/the-imperial-guard/1134/
Originally posted by Dolos
As far as combat Vitiate could pwn any of those Jedi 1 on 1 without using his lightsaber, and thoroughly I might add. Think Abeloth in her avatar bodies times a billion in Force powers. Although Abeloth wasn't very talented compared to Vitiate, though she did pull off incredible feats of destruction beyond Vitiate's immediate ability: leveling a city, and generating a much more massive blast comparable to an atom bomb using the technique known as Dark Side Energy Containment.
😂
Originally posted by The_Tempest
😂
Why are you laughing? You don't believe he can? Well let me remind you that he did overpower Revan.
Revan has redirected very powerful lightning one time, and can move heavy objects with the force. He has precognition and can react instantaneously (this proves he is at least as fast as Sidious; hell, probably even faster). His dueling feats include defeating Malak, defeating Mandalore, defeating some of Vitiates guards etc... Oh yeah, and he has fought through giant droids. Obviously he's up there with the likes of Yoda and Luke. It's not like any of their feats surpass Revan's by miles.
So if Vitiate can overpower Revan, he can do the same to Yoda and Luke.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Why are you laughing? You don't believe he can? Well let me remind you that he did overpower Revan.Revan has redirected very powerful lightning one time, and can move heavy objects with the force. He has precognition and can react instantaneously (this proves he is at least as fast as Sidious; hell, probably even faster). His dueling feats include defeating Malak, defeating Mandalore, defeating some of Vitiates guards etc... Oh yeah, and he has fought through giant droids. Obviously he's up there with the likes of Yoda and Luke. It's not like any of their feats surpass Revan's by miles.
So if Vitiate can overpower Revan, he can do the same to Yoda and Luke.
Your horrible attempts at sarcasm and Sidious fanboyism notwithstanding, it's unclear as to who, if anybody, can withstand the mental powers of Vitiate. If there was anybody, my money would be on Luke. Yoda? A big fat LOL to that one.
Originally posted by jadams3928
Your horrible attempts at sarcasm and Sidious fanboyism notwithstanding, it's unclear as to who, if anybody, can withstand the mental powers of Vitiate. If there was anybody, my money would be on Luke. Yoda? A big fat LOL to that one.
Awww look, the sorry ass TOR era worshiper still upset because Vitiate and Revan didn't live up to his expectations.
Revan was able to resist Vitiate's mind control long enough to put him on his ass, so it's not something that Vitiate can do instantly. Yoda was able to fight at equal speed to a sith lord who can blitz other incredibly fast force users before they could react. Give me proof that Vitiate can penetrate Yoda's mind before Yoda can slaughter him. If Yoda does allow Vitiate to attack first, all Yoda has to do is sense Vitiate trying to enter his mind, break Vitiate's concentration with a force push, and then blitz him. Why couldn't he? Please give me a reasonable argument, and not another baseless fanboy assumption.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Why are you laughing? You don't believe he can? Well let me remind you that he did overpower Revan.Revan has redirected very powerful lightning one time, and can move heavy objects with the force. He has precognition and can react instantaneously (this proves he is at least as fast as Sidious; hell, probably even faster). His dueling feats include defeating Malak, defeating Mandalore, defeating some of Vitiates guards etc... Oh yeah, and he has fought through giant droids. Obviously he's up there with the likes of Yoda and Luke. It's not like any of their feats surpass Revan's by miles.
So if Vitiate can overpower Revan, he can do the same to Yoda and Luke.
Gallen's feats surpass that of Vader by miles. And yet Vader was not an easy prey for him.
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About Revan's part: He was fully prepared in his second encounter. He reacted to Vitiate's mental brush on the spot and he did so in unorthodox fashion; he had to step out from the normalcy of using the Force to prevent Vitiate from breaking him this time.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Awww look, the sorry ass TOR era worshiper still upset because Vitiate and Revan didn't live up to his expectations.Revan was able to resist Vitiate's mind control long enough to put him on his ass, so it's not something that Vitiate can do instantly. Yoda was able to fight at equal speed to a sith lord who can blitz other incredibly fast force users before they could react. Give me proof that Vitiate can penetrate Yoda's mind before Yoda can slaughter him. If Yoda does allow Vitiate to attack first, all Yoda has to do is sense Vitiate trying to enter his mind, break Vitiate's concentration with a force push, and then blitz him. Why couldn't he? Please give me a reasonable argument, and not another baseless fanboy assumption.
You have excuses and nothing else. Looking for spots to give advantage to your favourite characters without proper grasp of canonical events.
Sorry folks, this isn't how things work. Unless Yoda is too close to Vitiate, he wouldn't get the time to land a blow to defend himself from telepathic domination.
Just a minor mental brush from Vitiate nearly broke Scourge who was also a powerful individual. And Vitiate was being soft with him.
When Revan felt the brush, he reacted on the spot with unorthodox means to save himself. He knew that he didn't had much time to think about his options. Revan was mentally prepared beforehand during this second encounter. The situation of Revan is entirely different then that of a first-timer in this encounter.
In fact, the whole duel didn't last long in terms of span of time, as per descriptions in the novel.
Originally posted by NemeBro
That just proves that Vader is very powerful, not that Marek isn't as strong as claimed.Vader has the feat of making Marek struggle for a victory.