Nephthys
Except that the Imperial Guardsmen are not Force-sensitive and as such can't wield the Force. Therefore it logically stands that they do not have to consciously activate Vitiates protection in order for it to be in effect. Which leads us to logically conclude that neither does Vitiate.
facepalm
Revan
Though not attuned to the Force in the classical sense, the elite soldiers had a connection with the Emperor, allowing them to draw strength from the dark side.
Contrary to your outlandish suggestion, the Imperial Guard aren't just that awesome that they're somehow all but immune to telekinesis at all times, which is irretrievably stupid when you consider that Jedi Masters and Sith Lords across the mythos have been ragdolled by telekinesis when they were unprepared for it.
Nephthys
Other than the Light/Darkside Combo technique, you mean? Also, doesn't he teach the Exile and Scourge a method of resisting Vitiates control?
Well, if the "light side/dark side combo" TK burst is precisely what protected Revan from Vitiate and nothing else... then how did Scourge and Surik emerge unscathed, since they did not replicate the feat during the battle?
Nephthys
Since when is Vitiates palace a dark side nexus?
As youa rational person might expect from a world that has been populated by countless Sith Lords for a thousand years, the entire planet is a dark side nexus.
Revan
The powerful electrical storms were a physical manifestation of the dark side power that engulfed the entire planet—a power that had brought the Sith back here a millennium before, when their very survival had been in doubt.
Nephthys
So what? Legend is correct, the Hero was dominated for a considerable time and wouldn't have broken free without interference from Din's spirit.
It only goes to show how fragile the bond really is, when all one need do to break it is tell one of the thralls to fight it.
Nephthys
Its also illogical to assume that Din did nothing when any form of telepathic assistance would by its very nature be hidden from the audiences eyes.
haermm
Do you have any evidence to suggest that this is the case or are you simply throwing out baseless assumptions? Any ghost of a suggestion that Orgus Din somehow actively aided telepathically, when his words imply otherwise? You'll note he didn't say "you and I are stronger than his influence!" but rather, "you are stronger than his influence!"
Because if this discussion is going to devolve into "well, this could be the case," then I've already won it: I can do the exact same thing with Vitiate's reliance on preparation and rituals. The only difference is that I can actively support that theory with multiple lines of canonical text that support it.
Otherwise, your assumptions notwithstanding, I don't have to prove a negative.
Nephthys
Also recall that Palpatines telepathy was foiled by Koto merely speak, with no actual resistance or special technique from Marek at all.
Cool story, bro.
But not only is this thread not about Palpatine, no one has suggested that Sidious could permanently or indefinitely enthrall fully prepared Force users.
Nephthys
As others have pointed out, this is apples and oranges. You cannot equate possession to telepathic mind-control.
True, except for the fact that Carsen clearly does equate them.
Nephthys
I highly doubt that this is actually the case. Recall that Revan and Malak also 'broke free' from his control and still did his work for him, just as Braga did.
I do recall. The fact that Revan and Malak continued to implement Vitiate's plan is irrelevant when they were assuming control of that plan for their own gain.
Nephthys
Braga may have thought he was free, but his opinion is worthless considering his confused mental state and that he continued to serve Vitiate afterwards.
I'll remember this on all things Tobin, heneforth.
What a majestically-sprung trap, if I do say so myself. excellent
Nephthys
Its entirely possible that Vitiate merely allowed him to believe he was free. With mind-control, can you ever actually know?
Except, unlike the Hero or Carsen, there is no evidence of Braga's release from Vitiate's hold, even when he agrees to return to the Jedi Order, indicating that such a release occurred long ago as he said.
The fact that he continued to align himself with Vitiate's goals and designs does not require that he be subject to mental domination.
Nephthys
It tells us nothing but what we chose to take from it.
The dilemma is that what I "chose" to take from it has an abundance of support: we never see Vitiate assume control of a fully prepared Force user. Instead, he relies on traps, misdirection, rituals, preparation, and an assortment of unfair advantages that, while clever, do not lend any support to the notion that he can achieve the same results on neutral ground with a fully conscious enemy who does not underestimate him.
You, however politely, are simply sticking your fingers in your ears and going "nuh uh."
Nephthys
Like Revan and Malak? Like 8000 fvcking Sith Lords?
There is no evidence to suggest that any of them were prepared to face him.
Revan openly confesses in the book that he and Malak highly underestimated Vitiate, who had sprung an elaborate trap for them. Scourge raises the same concern to Nyriss, who explains that the Sith Lords probably did not expect treachery from Vitiate, given that he was outnumbered dramatically. Additionally, the three relevant sources on the subject conflict: Nyriss says the Sith Lords were mentally enthralled by Vitiate, but The Old Republic Encyclopedia and the in-game codex suggest that it was a truly cooperative effort. Perhaps the Sith Lords didn't understand the ritual's true intent until it was too late.
Nephthys
This is ridiculous, you actually are arguing that Vitiate cannot dominate anyone whose prepared?
Yup.
It's not ridiculous when, as usual, I have a mountain of support. It is ridiculous when, as usual, you protest when your support extends only to indignant outrage.
Nephthys
Despite him having the greatest telepathic feats in the mythos?
facepalm
Even if true, it does not follow that because Vitiate is the telepath supreme he can do whatever he wants to anyone telepathically despite their level of Force strength and resolve.
In case you've forgotten, even the most powerful adepts have in place limitations on their abilities. Which is why certain, more intelligent folks have sources that Sidious mentally subjugated billions and telepathically manipulated anywhere from millions to trillions of Coruscant's population, but don't argue that "lol he can mindpwn anyone anywhere mwahahahah!" As you indicated, a lone prepared Force user is able to shrug off the influence of a man who can do all that.
UnuThul was bolstered by the Force potential of countless Killiks and succeeded in manipulating Luke Skywalker, whose powers were bolstered by zilch, until Skywalker was prepared for him and then it ended in abject failure.
But I'll give you credit for trying to quietly introduce a blatant no-limits fallacy to Vitiate. 👆
Nephthys
If this was the case then why would Revan even need to stop Vitiates mental assault? Why do you need to take a droid to fight him? Because Satale and Scourge explicitly say that anyone else would be dominated.
Where?
Nephthys
When has anyone actually resisted him during his domination? Answer: They haven't.
facepalm
How about Revan? Or are we skipping that big plot twist for your convenience?
Nephthys
The only times when his control has been beaten or weakened was months after the fact and with outside help.
😂
That's if he succeeds in enthralling them in the first place. Which I suppose you could argue, if you mean to suggest that Yoda will either do nothing or take a nap.
