Nihilus (right after Katarr) Vs. Vitiate (right after Nathema)

Originally posted by The_Tempest
...According to Kreia. Getting to the aforementioned pissing match with Vitiate is silly if this is the avenue you plan to take: he has more historians and in-universe sources wanking him than Nihilus.

It took him a second to strike and stun the Exile, who is substantially weaker than Vitiate in all ways; we do not automatically assume attacks will produce similar results against a more powerful and prepared adversary.

The problem with this has already been addressed.

From the surface of Malachor V, yes? Which is known to be an exceptionally powerful dark side nexus, if I recall.

I'm not saying Vitiate wins, I'm saying there's an argument to be had. Alas, neither side seems keen on actually contributing one.

This has been gone over many times as well.

Kreia already made it clear there was no defense against the technique, and even against three powerful Jedi Masters of the High Jedi Council, who came to Dantooine, prepared to kill the Exile and her companions - they still were helpless to deal with Kreia's weaker version of the Drain.

And Nihilus is himself a wormhole of Dark side energy, unto himself, and he carries of the echoes of death of Malachor V with him, everywhere he goes - so he doesn't need a Dark side nexus.

If nothing else, the energy he had taken into himself previously from Malachor, gave him the strength needed to wrest the warship from the gravity-well of the Planet.

So he basically is a temporary-Dark side Nexus, unto himself - meaning the planet actually being there with him or not, is irrelevant.

I know you're a good Debator, and I respect you for your skill and impressive intellect.

But Vitiate has no chance, here. He can't even harm an entity that every official source known (or literally every site we can find) says that he tanked the planet being ripped into pieces, which takes millions upon millions of mega-tons of force.

Aside from that quandary, the only chance Vitiate has is being able to try and persuade Nihilus not to devour him (as a Force-rich individual like Vitiate would be a tasty-snack to him) and within the short time-frame, Nihilus could easily telekinetically crush Vitiate like a bug, or easily Drain him.

There is literally nothing Vitiate can do here, except turn, and run away.

I'd drop the planet-tanking argument, frankly. It is inconsistent first of all, and ignores frankly more contextually likely alternative, that he was not killed because he was changed by it, rather than tanking it.

No please guys, I enjoy watching this idiot post.

Originally posted by jadams3928
No please guys, I enjoy watching this idiot post.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I'd drop the planet-tanking argument, frankly. It is inconsistent first of all, and ignores frankly more contextually likely alternative, that he was not killed because he was changed by it, rather than tanking it.

If the nature of what he was (Force Wound), couldn't tank a planet being ripped into pieces - then he wouldn't have survived to change into a Force Wound.

Add to the fact that he essentially absorbed all of the death and destruction wrought on the Force, and it fed him, giving him power to survive such destruction.

Because he changed from Human to Wound, in mid-destruction, and if his new form couldn't handle such damage (the Planet ripping into five or six pieces, around him) - he wouldn't be around afterwards.

So what you just said, is actually inconsistent.

You might want to think it over some more.

In other words, the change isn't what enabled him to survive - it was the nature of what he turned into that enabled it.

He didn't change before the Planet was crushed to pieces, because there was no death to feed off of, and he didn't change afterward because the force of the planet splitting into five or six pieces, would have vaporized him as a human.

He changed, as the destruction occurred, as the death spewed and echoed through the Force - and in mid-destruction, mid-nova, if what he changed into, couldn't handle the earth-shattering damage, then he wouldn't be around afterwards.

It was not the change itself, but the actual nature of what he turned into, as the planet was ripped to pieces, that enabled him to survive.

Add the death that fed into him when he changed, and you understand he was empowered by massive energies through the Force as well.

Just like a Katarr-fed Nihilus would be.

Just like the Nihilus that Vitiate has to fight, here.

- So it would do well to actually understand things and use logic. Then what you're looking at looks less convoluted.

Hey, the dumbass is lecturing others on logic. NICE

Originally posted by Rookwood
If the nature of what he was (Force Wound), couldn't tank a planet being ripped into pieces - then he wouldn't have survived to change into a Force Wound.

Add to the fact that he essentially absorbed all of the death and destruction wrought on the Force, and it fed him, giving him power to survive such destruction.

Because he changed from Human to Wound, in mid-destruction, and if his new form couldn't handle such damage (the Planet ripping into five or six pieces, around him) - he wouldn't be around afterwards.

So what you just said, is actually inconsistent.

You might want to think it over some more.

Nihilus only shed his physical form much later than the destruction of Malachor, as per the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide:

'Nothing matters except his hunger. Before it devours him totally, Nihilus uses its power to displace his persona into his robes and armor. As his useless body disintegrates, he becomes living primitive intention; at last, the whole of the galaxy becomes food—for Nihilus has become the hunger.'

Furthermore he only learns to feed on others well after the destruction:

'Then, when all seems lost, he discovers that his emptiness hungered. The first time, he fed it unconsciously. Draining another being's life is frightening, nauseating, but for a euphoric moment, the memories, the illness, and the hunger disappeared. But it proves insatiable. The more he indulges it, the shorter the satisfaction lasts and the more severe the hunger becomes. He begins feeding relentlessly, still always craving. Existence again becomes unbearable, but then hope materializes. A blind Sith Lord appears. She has felt his existence like a gaping wound through the Force. The Force, she explains, fuels his hunger, and she will show him how to devours worlds. The Sith and the Force are meaningless to him, but the hunger must be appeased.'

Further-furthermore, the Mass Shadow Generator did not completely destroy everything. In the game we find pieces of ships that are operable. Remote finds and repairs the mechanism that controls the MSG after all, plus the Ravager is largely intact. And as the quote above proves, there were many other survivors than Nihilus that he fed upon.

Basically, you are utterly wrong. Have a nice day. 🙂

Originally posted by Rookwood
So Vitiate dies. 🙂

Also, Vitiate was the sole survivor of the ritual he performed on Nathema to gain immortality. Every other living organism perished. His durability and command of the dark side is well noted here.

Vitiate's powers are also potent enough to utterly destroy Darth Nihilus in combat.

Well apparently this also clears up the notion that Nihilus escaped Malachor via Force-retrieved wreckage. He clearly left with Kreia.

You mean, when he striped her of the Force? He was trained on Malachor, theres no reason for Kreia to have left with him until that point. Besides which we have many sources saying that Nihilus raised the Ravager from Malachor:

'Most Centurion-class battlecruisers are destroyed or captured by the end of the Jedi Civil War. However, during the Dark Wars, the Sith Lord Darth Nihilus managed to resurrect one of the crushed battlecruisers from Malachor V, turning the wreck of the Ravager into a spaceworthy ghost ship. -Kotor Campaign Guide

"The Ravager was hauled from the gravity well at Malachor V by its new master. He used it to escape imprisonment on Malachor V.The Sith fleet attacking Telos appears to be composed of many damaged warships... the wreckage of a great battle." - Loading screen.

That second one suggests it was an entire fleet too.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You mean, when he striped her of the Force?

How did she get off?

Originally posted by Nephthys
He was trained on Malachor, theres no reason for Kreia to have left with him until that point. Besides which we have many sources saying that Nihilus raised the Ravager from Malachor:

'Most Centurion-class battlecruisers are destroyed or captured by the end of the Jedi Civil War. However, during the Dark Wars, the Sith Lord Darth Nihilus managed to resurrect one of the crushed battlecruisers from Malachor V, turning the wreck of the Ravager into a spaceworthy ghost ship. -Kotor Campaign Guide

"The Ravager was hauled from the gravity well at Malachor V by its new master. He used it to escape imprisonment on Malachor V.' - Loading screen.

I said Force-retrieved, bro.

jadams3928
No please guys, I enjoy watching this idiot post.

It's a shame that the SWU seems to have largely disowned Knights II; I know it didn't pan out as well as it should have, but there were a lot of terrific ideas there.

Yes, I'm sure he actually just used a really big crane. 😆

Originally posted by Eminence
bro, find your center and populate it with forgiveness babies.

It's a shame that the SWU seems to have largely disowned Knights II; I know it didn't pan out as well as it should have, but there were a lot of terrific ideas there.

jadams3928
ROFL. Were you drunk or high when you wrote that?

jadams3928
Knights II was good but incomplete. It was better than the first in terms of "darkness". I enjoyed that.

I think I need to give more reasons why Traya's claim cannot be trusted.

She said that the technique is about severing victims from the Force and feeding on death it causes. This is already contradiction. Nihilus canonically is stated consuming Force energy of his victims but feeding on death is the same as feeding on emotions, which has nothing to do with drain.

Moreover, the game itself proves that Force severing doesn't kill. Exile severed herself and Traya got severed by Nihilus. And in entire EU noone ever died by being severed from the Force.

Finally, we have Ravager crew who suffer from drain effect and are still alive, which proves that Force severing has nothing to do with Nihilus' drain.

Nowhere does it explicitly note "This is bullshit and only a rumor", both Visas and Unseen Unheard confirm that Nihilus is capable of it. Kreia does as well.

Only Nihilus's planetary consumption has physical after-effects, as we've seen.

Stop arguing against what we plainly see.

Also, should I remind you that Visas was blind and, when Nihilus found her, she was unconscious? There ia no way she could know what exactly happened.

In New Rebelion book Kueller rises his hands, then entire population dies and he feeds on that death. Only towards the end it is reviled that he used detonators planted into droids.

I looked into it; it would seem that from the wording, Nihilus's ships would follow Nihilus, as he stood aboard the Ravager, feeding off of worlds.

Early on in another debate, we examined the ruins of Katarr, as a possibility that Nihilus's technique may have had other destructive effects.

Then, I believe, Lord_Lucien, offered the suggestion that with every world that Nihilus drained to death, almost instantaneously, that world's machines and vehicles would break down and crash without their living operators - resulting in added destruction and ruin.

And as I already said there is proof that Exile is not immune to drain:
YouTube video

Which means that resisting Force drain has nothing to do with Force wound and solely depends on Force user's competency just like with any other Force abilities.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes, I'm sure he actually just used a really big crane. 😆

Star Wars is full of astounding technological marvels, bro.
Anyway, I'm just having a bit of fun at your expense, borrowing your tactics and unleashing them against you and your fragile hopes with devastating effectiveness.

Petty, yes, but satisfying. excellent

Laughable effectiveness maybe. Theres no way he could have gotten it off with a tractor beam since the MSG would have destroyed the ship towing it out and thats really the only other way he could do it other than the accepted method of pulling it out with the Force.

Originally posted by jadams3928
Hey, the dumbass is lecturing others on logic. NICE

Did you clean those blood stains out of your underwear yet? 😆