Nihilus (right after Katarr) Vs. Vitiate (right after Nathema)

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nihilus only shed his physical form much later than the destruction of Malachor, as per the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide:
'Nothing matters except his hunger. Before it devours him totally, Nihilus uses its power to displace his persona into his robes and armor. As his useless body disintegrates, he becomes living primitive intention; at last, the whole of the galaxy becomes food—for Nihilus has become the hunger.'

I give props for the interesting post.

But the passage doesn't do anything to demonstrate that Nihilus shed his body after the destruction of Malachor.

Although, if it did, ironically, it would prove that he did indeed use his Force abilities to tank the blast that ripped a planet into five or six different pieces.

Which would be even more impressive, considering he tanked a planet exploding apart, whilst maintaining a human body.

Originally posted by Nephthys

Further-furthermore, the Mass Shadow Generator did not completely destroy everything. In the game we find pieces of ships that are operable. Remote finds and repairs the mechanism that controls the MSG after all, plus the Ravager is largely intact. And as the quote above proves, there were many other survivors than Nihilus that he fed upon.
Basically, you are utterly wrong. Have a nice day. 🙂

You're forgetting that when the MSG went off, the planet was ripped into five or six different pieces (which would take the equivalent of millions of nuclear weapons to accomplish), and that there were ships that orbited the planet, where the survivors would be.

Afterward, the same MSG was used to temporarily hold those five or six chunks of the planet back together into a whole, and in doing so many ships that had orbited the world, avoiding the brunt of the blast, were downed again.

Lastly, if you remember, the Ravager also, was largely among the surviving vessels that orbited the planet during and after the destruction.

You were probably having a busy night when posting your response, so I understand it's context and why you may have missed a few things.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate cannot die in conventional fashion after gaining immortality.

Do you have some proof for that? (Screen cap, Wiki article, page scan from book - any one of those)

Also, I'd be curious to know if he's a Force Wound, or not..

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Also, Vitiate was the sole survivor of the ritual he performed on Nathema to gain immortality. Every other living organism perished. His durability and command of the dark side is well noted here.

Except he needed the aid of thousands of Sith Lords to accomplish this, which isn't particularly impressive.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate's powers are also potent enough to utterly destroy Darth Nihilus in combat.

Unfortunately I've seen nothing in the Emperor's repertoire that would suggest he can destroy a planet, or even utilize telekinesis to do anything much more impressive than Sidious (if even that).

Nihilus can withstand the multi-million mega-ton force that can rip an entire planet apart, so I doubt Vitiate can do anything with his powers that will even tickle Nihilus.

Nihilus can laughably tank anything Vitiate throws at him, and then eat him at his leisure. (Kind of like eating a live tiny creature at a fancy restaurant)

Again, Nihilus wins here.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Laughable effectiveness maybe. Theres no way he could have gotten it off with a tractor beam since the MSG would have destroyed the ship towing it out and thats really the only other way he could do it other than the accepted method of pulling it out with the Force.

Perhaps, but really, I don't have to prove that there's another way: you, or anyone arguing in favor of Nihilus, have to prove that he did do it with the Force. stoned

Since there is no other way he could have hauled it out it is proven by default.

Originally posted by Arhael
I think I need to give more reasons why Traya's claim cannot be trusted.

She said that the technique is about severing victims from the Force and feeding on death it causes. This is already contradiction. Nihilus canonically is stated consuming Force energy of his victims but feeding on death is the same as feeding on emotions, which has nothing to do with drain.

It doesn't? Since when? Kreia could be being metaphorical bear in mind. We see the effects of the technique and it specifically drains the target completely of the Force. It does not merely sever them from the Force:

'As much as one may use the Force to bolster the wills and strengths of others, the reverse is possible, though not often used. Instead of sending one's will through connections in the Force, instead such connections are drawn upon, fed upon, and drained completely.'

Originally posted by Arhael
Moreover, the game itself proves that Force severing doesn't kill. Exile severed herself

But did not drain herself. And the Exile is a special case, which is why Kreia is so in her grill.

Originally posted by Arhael
and Traya got severed by Nihilus.

The technique does not need to be done to the degree that it kills. It's ambiguous about the extent of the damage done to Kreia buts its my belief that she was not completely drained, which is why the Exile reawakens her connection to the Force only after establishing a bond with her.

Originally posted by Arhael
And in entire EU noone ever died by being severed from the Force.

Originally posted by Arhael
Finally, we have Ravager crew who suffer from drain effect and are still alive, which proves that Force severing has nothing to do with Nihilus' drain.

Nihilus wasn't even consciously affecting them. It proves nothing.

Originally posted by Arhael
What you mean nowhere? The source I provided says that it is rumor. The author of the encyclopedia, which is the latest source with Kotor characters, did not prove any of claims by Traya or Marr and in fact did only opposite.

And a rumor must be untrue?

Originally posted by Arhael
We plainly see that buildings collaps and people run all over the place. You assume that it was Nihilus' consumption technique. I assume it wasn't.

What else could it be? The smoke monster from LOST perhaps?

Originally posted by Arhael
Also, should I remind you that Visas was blind and, when Nihilus found her, she was unconscious? There ia no way she could know what exactly happened.

She sees through the Force. If anything her account would be more reliable than a humans. Besides which, just because the narration is from her perspective doesn't mean the accompanying pictures are.

Originally posted by Arhael
In New Rebelion book Kueller rises his hands, then entire population dies and he feeds on that death. Only towards the end it is reviled that he used detonators planted into droids.

Except we see Nihilus and Kreia use the technique and witness the effects of it.

Originally posted by Arhael
From this I can safely conclude that Nihilus' "unblockable" drain is discredited, since you couldn't come up with anything but more speculation.

No, what we can conclude is that you are a buffoon.

Originally posted by Arhael
And as I already said there is proof that Exile is not immune to drain:
YouTube video

Which means that resisting Force drain has nothing to do with Force wound and solely depends on Force user's competency just like with any other Force abilities.

This proves nothing. Recall that the Exile and Kreia have a Force Bond. Kreia could simply be utilising the Force Bond to sap the Exiles vitality:

As much as one may use the Force to bolster the wills and strengths of others, the reverse is possible, though not often used. Instead of sending one's will through connections in the Force, instead such connections are drawn upon, fed upon, and drained completely.'

Nephthys
What else could it be? The smoke monster from LOST perhaps?

Bombardment from the Ravager?
Either way, it's a moot point. To paraphrase a certain someone from another thread, Arhael doesn't "have to argue why it wouldn't" be the drain, "you need to prove that it would be."

Nephthys
Since there is no other way he could have hauled it out it is proven by default.

It's really not.

First, for you to say there is no other way is erroneous. A more apt description is that "there is no other way that we know of" and that may be true.

Second, I'm not saying that I think he hauled it out any other way. But I like holding your feet to the proverbial fire (the one you started elsewhere, by the way). I'm not sure why you think your opponents should be more generous than you in a debate.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Bombardment from the Ravager?
Either way, it's a moot point. To paraphrase a certain someone from another thread, Arhael doesn't "have to argue why it wouldn't" be the drain, "you need to prove that it would be."

The Ravager fires smoke does it? Kind of strange ship-design I must say.

But I guess now its my job to prove that the Ravager has normal cannons and doesn't fire smoke, is it? 😉

Originally posted by The_Tempest
It's really not.

First, for you to say there is no other way is erroneous. A more apt description is that "there is no other way that we know of" and that may be true.

Second, I'm not saying that I think he hauled it out any other way. But I like holding your feet to the proverbial fire (the one you started elsewhere, by the way). I'm not sure why you think your opponents should be more generous than you in a debate.

Name another way. You think you're being clever, but really you're just making an ass out of yourself tbh.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The Ravager fires smoke does it? Kind of strange ship-design I must say.

It could have been smoke that resulted from the bombardment, bro.

Originally posted by Nephthys
But I guess now its my job to prove that the Ravager has normal cannons and [b]doesn't fire smoke, is it? 😉[/b]

By the standard you established with me in a recent debate, yes, actually.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Name another way.

Perhaps Nihilus, Sion, all their Sith assassins pooled their efforts and, drawing on the dark energies of Malachor, removed the ships in concerted effort? We see similar phenomenon occur in Darksaber.

Really, the logical, mature, and responsible thing to do to both (1) save time and (2) spare yourself the inevitable defeat is confess that you were being unreasonable elsewhere and you would very much not like that to be the standard to which your opponents hold you in a discussion.

Didn't see your edit here.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You think you're being clever, but really you're just making an ass out of yourself tbh.

No, I know I'm being clever, as do you, and that's what's frustrating you currently. The only thing more gratifying than crushing your adversary outright is setting him up to do it himself under the weight of his big, fat English head.

Joking aside, you were being unreasonable because it favored your current man-crush. But you expect opponents to show you generosity in debates that you do not extend to them. Why?

Ahem..

Originally posted by Rookwood
Ahem..

Sorry, bro. I'm just teaching my limp-wristed, tea-sipping boytoy here a valuable lesson on fair play.

Carry on.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
It could have been smoke that resulted from the bombardment, bro.

Clearly not smoke rising from bombardment. In the first panel it moving tendril-like over the surface of the planet. In the second we can see the smoke destroying buildings and structures.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
By the standard you established with me in a recent debate, yes, actually.

Lol, so basically you're butthurt over losing that debate to me? How the mighty have fallen.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Perhaps Nihilus, Sion, all their Sith assassins pooled their efforts and, drawing on the dark energies of Malachor, removed the ships in concerted effort? We see similar phenomenon occur in Darksaber.

All the quotes related to this feat speak only of Nihilus. The Ravager was hauled from Malachor 'by its new master', not his forces.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Really, the logical, mature, and responsible thing to do to is both (1) save time and (2) spare yourself the inevitable defeat is confess that you were being unreasonable elsewhere and you would very much not like that to be the standard to which your opponents hold you in a discussion.

I don't even know what you're butthurt over, so I'm not going to apologise until you give me examples of my being unreasonable. Either way, its clear you just want to pick a fight, so consider this argument over.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Didn't see your edit here.

No, I know I'm being clever, as do you, and that's what's frustrating you currently. The only thing more gratifying than crushing your adversary outright is setting him up to do it himself under the weight of his big, fat English head.

Joking aside, you were being unreasonable because it favored your current man-crush. But you expect opponents to show you generosity in debates that you do not extend to them. Why?

You're giving yourself too much credit if you think I'm frustrated. All joking aside, I really am not. I'm finding this very amusing and I'm smirking quite hard at the moment.

I also think that you're really not being clever. This is quite bad for you. :I

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Sorry, bro. I'm just teaching my limp-wristed, tea-sipping boytoy here a valuable lesson on fair play.

Carry on.

No, it's fine. 🙂

I'm enjoying watching the debate.

Debating with Ahrael seems a bit pointless, since he simply doesn't understand the Drain.

The verbal-fencing between you and Nephyths is very interesting to watch, though. 😉

Originally posted by Nephthys

Clearly not smoke rising from bombardment. In the first panel it moving tendril-like over the surface of the planet. In the second we can see the smoke destroying buildings and structures.

You say it's not, I'm saying it is. The smoke could simply be the rolling cloud of destruction courtesy of the Ravager's guns, inciting catastrophe in its wake.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Lol, so basically you're butthurt over losing that debate to me? How the mighty have fallen.

I'm seething with rage, bro. I can barely contain myself. But I'm glad you think of me as mighty.

Originally posted by Nephthys
All the quotes related to this feat speak only of Nihilus. The Ravager was hauled from Malachor 'by its new master', not his forces.

If a history book says "Hitler invaded Russia during Operation Barbarossa in 1941," does that mean Hitler was out there with a gun in the trenches?

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't even know what you're butthurt over, so I'm not going to apologise until you give me examples of my being unreasonable. Either way, its clear you just want to pick a fight, so consider this argument over.

I accept your concession, bro.
But for reference, consult page 3 of Rookwood's Vitiate vs. Palpatine thread, specifically your post about Dromund Kaas being a dark side nexus.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You're giving yourself credit if you think I'm frustrated. All joking aside, I really am not. I'm finding this very amusing and I'm smirking quite hard at the moment.

lol

Nah. Earlier today, you said you'd be "happy to debate" me. Now, you're tucking tail and running. The credit I award myself is merely a straightforward interpretation of your actions. You're waving your wounded pride in the white flag of surrender when you should simply concede to your use of double standards and humbly request that I extend you a courtesy you denied others.

You'll find that I am a merciful master.

I'm actually a bit surprised over this particular debate over the destruction of Katarr.

Lord_Lucien astutely pointed out in a past debate, that the smoke and damage was very likely the result of machines and vehicles being destroyed as a result of their operator's sudden death.

Hence the light destruction, in addition to everything all over Katarr dying when Nihilus spoke, per Visas.

Originally posted by Rookwood
I'm actually a bit surprised over this particular debate over the destruction of Katarr.

Lord_Lucien astutely pointed out in a past debate, that the smoke and damage was very likely the result of machines and vehicles being destroyed as a result of their operator's sudden death.

Hence the light destruction, in addition to everything all over Katarr dying when Nihilus spoke, per Visas.

For some, this would be enough.
But Nephthys initiated a sudden paradigm shift elsewhere. Now, unless a sentiment is articulated in harsh and specific exactitude, we cannot infer such things.

The only perceivable element of this subject that is actually debatable, is Nihilus tanking Malachor V's splitting into five or six different peices.

And I already responded to Nephthys' very good post, at the top of the page.

So we should already understand his Drain is unblockable; he wrested the Ravager from the gravity-well of the Planet, and if Nephthy's point was true - then he tanked the destruction of that world, in the body of a human.

Which, if true, is even more impressive than what I previously thought.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
For some, this would be enough.
But Nephthys initiated a sudden paradigm shift elsewhere. Now, unless a sentiment is articulated in harsh and specific exactitude, we cannot infer such things.

Eh.

I don't really care. I respect him, as I respect you.

He can be harsh if he wants - but he brings up astute points and raises valid questions.

It seems his last valid question to me, actually helped my case, as well.

Nephthys also pointed out that Malachor V saw other survivors whom the campaign guide says Nihilus drained.

You... left that part out.

You misread my quoted post really badly, btw. He's not being harsh at all.