Originally posted by quanchi112
I explained the circumstances were different with each one. You already agreed Harry can make his own decisions so it isn't like the other intentional horcruxes. You want to ignore the circumstances and black and white just like skip bay less. Context matters, dummy.Voldemort ftw.
So why can't Nagini?
Originally posted by quanchi112
We see nagini was always in unison with Voldemort's wishes. If you want to prove the claim then do so. Offering what ifs and possibilities without proof is another skip bayless tactic.
Being in unison doesn't mean anything close to what you are claiming. Harry and Ron have worked in unison. Doesn't make them the same being.
Ah shifting burden as per quantroll 101. YOU made the claim that they were the same. Prove it now if you can
Originally posted by juggermanDoes Ron have a horcrux of Harry in him ?
Being in unison doesn't mean anything close to what you are claiming. Harry and Ron have worked in unison. Doesn't make them the same being.Ah shifting burden as per quantroll 101. YOU made the claim that they were the same. Prove it now if you can
You made the claim. You also gave an example irrelevant to the circumstances involved here. Try and keep up, skip.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Does Ron have a horcrux of Harry in him ?You made the claim. You also gave an example irrelevant to the circumstances involved here. Try and keep up, skip.
You made the claim right here:
Originally posted by quanchi112
Voldemort wounded him and his horcurux did which is an extension of himself so yes he most certainly did. Do you know what a horcurux is ? 😆
So again you were caught in a lie 😂
Originally posted by quanchi112
We see nagini was always in unison with Voldemort's wishes. If you want to prove the claim then do so. Offering what ifs and possibilities without proof is another skip bayless tactic.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Does Ron have a horcrux of Harry in him ?You made the claim. You also gave an example irrelevant to the circumstances involved here. Try and keep up, skip.
You made the claim and ignored what I said. I said always in unison. Ron not only disagreed with Harry he flat out abandoned him at one point when u dear the influence of a Voldemort Horcrux.
You made the claim working in unison is the same thing. I made the claim nagini like the locket was Voldemort and his decision making unlike Harry.
Again, I have explained the differences and ignored your black and white world, skip.
😂
Originally posted by quanchi112
I never said it made up for skill. I said with two peers dueling the most powerful wand in existence gives an undeniable advantage. It does despite your fanboyism.That doesn't take into account the skill of each in the duels. We know that Voldemort and dumbledore are peers. So getting the most badass wand in the land and being unable to overcome Voldemort shows how skilled and powerful Voldemort is since he outshines Dumbledore in feats.
Again it also says in the movies elder wand is the most powerful wand. You keep quoting books this breaking the rules. GTFO.
Harry was not familiar with Voldemort's skill at that point so it's not to be taken as fact. It's his opinion and a hopeful one at best since Voldemort is after him.
Quit citing the books. It's against the rules, sport.
If your powerful enough than you can overcome it eith one meaning that voldemort isnt as powerful as you want him to be. Dumbledore was protecting Harry so it's not surprising that he wasn't just going all out. However when he did go on the offense he got results. Your one to talk Mrs. Voldemort. I'm not a fanboy you are though.
They aren't peers, they are enemies. Actually he doesn't outshine dumbledore in feats. Having the elder wand doesn't make dumbledore look bad because he it was a stalemate. Again voldemort never came close to defeating dumbledore while every offensive thing dumbledore did, expelliarmus, water spell and blew voldemort fire back got him some good results.
Books can be referenced if in need of answers the movie doesn't provide or just to answer questions. For instance of someone ask what happened to Harry's wand you can say that Harry used the elder wand to fix it. How about the death of Remus and Tonks. It's never said in the movies who killed them, so do we just assume that random death eaters killed them or go with the specifics.
Are you sure? Did he not experience the previous year and all of that stuff he did in the second year. He definitely has enough knowledge to know that he is powerful and also that is JKs eye within the movies so that is definitely fact as its backed up by the author Nd a previous quote in the first movie.
Again books can be cited if no information in the movies is present.
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2Skill matters but it's still a huge advantage for two peers. Dumbledore was unable to stop him from possessing Harry so according to you he utterly failed. 🙂
If your powerful enough than you can overcome it eith one meaning that voldemort isnt as powerful as you want him to be. Dumbledore was protecting Harry so it's not surprising that he wasn't just going all out. However when he did go on the offense he got results. Your one to talk Mrs. Voldemort. I'm not a fanboy you are though.They aren't peers, they are enemies. Actually he doesn't outshine dumbledore in feats. Having the elder wand doesn't make dumbledore look bad because he it was a stalemate. Again voldemort never came close to defeating dumbledore while every offensive thing dumbledore did, expelliarmus, water spell and blew voldemort fire back got him some good results.
Books can be referenced if in need of answers the movie doesn't provide or just to answer questions. For instance of someone ask what happened to Harry's wand you can say that Harry used the elder wand to fix it. How about the death of Remus and Tonks. It's never said in the movies who killed them, so do we just assume that random death eaters killed them or go with the specifics.
Are you sure? Did he not experience the previous year and all of that stuff he did in the second year. He definitely has enough knowledge to know that he is powerful and also that is JKs eye within the movies so that is definitely fact as its backed up by the author Nd a previous quote in the first movie.
Again books can be cited if no information in the movies is present.
Giant snake, black matter destructive feat, and hogwarts shield without the full cooperation of his wand, creation of the horcruxes, dark magic which fatally doomed Dumbledore. Your inability to debate based on the films is glaringly obvious.
No, the films only. It's clear in the rules. You can't even properly debate so I can't take you seriously. Go argue the books somewhere else.
So in his second year as a child he's opinion is factual ? GTFO. He never met the real Voldemort to grasp what he is capable of at that point.m. Your desperation is palpable.
Movie feats only. Reread the rules, fanboy.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Skill matters but it's still a huge advantage for two peers. Dumbledore was unable to stop him from possessing Harry so according to you he utterly failed. 🙂Giant snake, black matter destructive feat, and hogwarts shield without the full cooperation of his wand, creation of the horcruxes, dark magic which fatally doomed Dumbledore. Your inability to debate based on the films is glaringly obvious.
No, the films only. It's clear in the rules. You can't even properly debate so I can't take you seriously. Go argue the books somewhere else.
So in his second year as a child he's opinion is factual ? GTFO. He never met the real Voldemort to grasp what he is capable of at that point.m. Your desperation is palpable.
Movie feats only. Reread the rules, fanboy.
No it isn't. If that the case then grindlewald should have defeated dumbledore but look what happened, dumbledore won. Whether they are close or not is irrelevant according to you grindlewald should have won because they were close peers and one had the elder wand. So this by itself disproves your theory that the elder wand is supposed to make you win.
All of which dumbledore can match, surpass, or defend against as most of voldemort combative feats are in the duel in the fifth book. Also as stated by Rowling and the description of the elder wand and a questionnare about it, the power of a wand is still usable just not as well as as if you own the wand. So with that him using the wand is not an astounding feat as anyone can use the elder wand. What is weird is that when he used it he broke it and he felt the resistance of it even liking it's owner because he knows it's not acting the way it should. Voldemort let was unable to posses the mind of an incomplete fifth year with no extrordinary magical talent, and again, he didn't just say legillimans for Harry or dumbledore to block it. He apparated somewhere and then went to attack his mind so you make it sound like he was supposed to protect his mind. If he could why would he have snape train him in occlumency? So this is a complete invalid feat because if you want to use it than that means that bold doers was weak since he could t get passed Harry.
You are to far right or left. The books can be used just not as high up as the movies in this forum however the books can be used.
As he has the backing of the author, and that is basically her eye of the movies. Also hermione granger is very factual as a FIRST YEAR. So with that Harry can be taken seriously.
Books can be referenced. Stop being to far right or to far left.
Originally posted by quanchi112
You made the claim and ignored what I said. I said always in unison. Ron not only disagreed with Harry he flat out abandoned him at one point when u dear the influence of a Voldemort Horcrux.You made the claim working in unison is the same thing. I made the claim nagini like the locket was Voldemort and his decision making unlike Harry.
Again, I have explained the differences and ignored your black and white world, skip.
😂
You made the claim, stop dodging. I claimed "working in unison" is NOT the same thing and used Harry and Ron as an example since they did indeed work in unison several times.
Still waiting for your evidence
Originally posted by juggermanI said "ALWAYS" worked in unison and has a piece of his soul as well. Quit picking and choosing what words I said and ignoring the rest, Skip.
You made the claim, stop dodging. I claimed "working in unison" is NOT the same thing and used Harry and Ron as an example since they did indeed work in unison several times.Still waiting for your evidence
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2Dumbledore didn't beat Voldemort but he had the elder wand. Dumbledore beat Grindlewald and he had the elder wand. Look at the evidence. Quit ignoring the facts.
No it isn't. If that the case then grindlewald should have defeated dumbledore but look what happened, dumbledore won. Whether they are close or not is irrelevant according to you grindlewald should have won because they were close peers and one had the elder wand. So this by itself disproves your theory that the elder wand is supposed to make you win.All of which dumbledore can match, surpass, or defend against as most of voldemort combative feats are in the duel in the fifth book. Also as stated by Rowling and the description of the elder wand and a questionnare about it, the power of a wand is still usable just not as well as as if you own the wand. So with that him using the wand is not an astounding feat as anyone can use the elder wand. What is weird is that when he used it he broke it and he felt the resistance of it even liking it's owner because he knows it's not acting the way it should. Voldemort let was unable to posses the mind of an incomplete fifth year with no extrordinary magical talent, and again, he didn't just say legillimans for Harry or dumbledore to block it. He apparated somewhere and then went to attack his mind so you make it sound like he was supposed to protect his mind. If he could why would he have snape train him in occlumency? So this is a complete invalid feat because if you want to use it than that means that bold doers was weak since he could t get passed Harry.
You are to far right or left. The books can be used just not as high up as the movies in this forum however the books can be used.
As he has the backing of the author, and that is basically her eye of the movies. Also hermione granger is very factual as a FIRST YEAR. So with that Harry can be taken seriously.
Books can be referenced. Stop being to far right or to far left.
You speculate on Dumbledore. Feats matter. Portrayal matters.
Harry's virtues forced Voldemort out but Albus clearly failed. You said he tried protecting him but he was unable to. Fact.
Read the rules, liar. The books can't be used here. Stick to the films. I've repeatedly told you this so its a sign of a lack of respect for the movie forum to continuously cry about the books and Rowling.
No, it can't and we know his knowledge is ignorant with regards to kill curses, advanced magic, and Voldemort at that point. Hermione is factual based on her studied but not things she has no idea about aka Harry on Voldemort.
Movie versions only. Rules, fanboy.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Dumbledore didn't beat Voldemort but he had the elder wand. Dumbledore beat Grindlewald and he had the elder wand. Look at the evidence. Quit ignoring the facts.You speculate on Dumbledore. Feats matter. Portrayal matters.
Harry's virtues forced Voldemort out but Albus clearly failed. You said he tried protecting him but he was unable to. Fact.
Read the rules, liar. The books can't be used here. Stick to the films. I've repeatedly told you this so its a sign of a lack of respect for the movie forum to continuously cry about the books and Rowling.
No, it can't and we know his knowledge is ignorant with regards to kill curses, advanced magic, and Voldemort at that point. Hermione is factual based on her studied but not things she has no idea about aka Harry on Voldemort.
Movie versions only. Rules, fanboy.
I know these things already. I've used this evidence already. This only further proves my point even with the elder wand it doesn't make up for any power or skill. Very close rivals almost equal yet one had the elder wand the other didn't. The one who didn't have the elder wand was the victor.
Do I really need to post the video of dumbledore and voldemorts battle and dumbledores firestorm.
Excuses. Point is Harry force him out. Also no one can defend against that, that's why he had snape teach him occlumency. So he did what he needed to do. He protected Harry throughout their duel and he aided Harry in pushing voldemort out.
Books can be used if their is ever a question that needs to be answered. For example the movie never answers, what happened to grindlewald, who killed Tonks and lupin, where did the sword of gryffindor come from, what happened to the kids after hogwarts, etc. The books can be called in if questions are needed. Versus threads feats from the movies dont count. So with that JK Rowling does count as she was THE creative consultant for all 8 films, producer for the last 2 films, and a very impactful occupations for all the films other than creative consultant.
Well if we go to the quote of Ron, "she knows more about you than you". She may not be just the expert on voldemort but the fact that in her first year she knows who voldemort is, and that he always feared dumbledore she definitely has at the very least a basic understanding and at the most an intermediate knowledge. Also Harry is the direct voice of Rowling as that is the main character, and he says dumbledore is the greatest sorcerer in the world, not knowing his power, like you say he doesn't know voldemorts power. So his statement stands to reason that dumbledore is greater.
It isn't helping you since you are losing this debate so.
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2Elder wand is still the most powerful wand. Dumbledore despite having it was not the victor. Your speculation does not take away from the fact the elder wand is the most powerful wand in existence. That's an advantage he had but was unable to defeat Voldemort.
I know these things already. I've used this evidence already. This only further proves my point even with the elder wand it doesn't make up for any power or skill. Very close rivals almost equal yet one had the elder wand the other didn't. The one who didn't have the elder wand was the victor.Do I really need to post the video of dumbledore and voldemorts battle and dumbledores firestorm.
Excuses. Point is Harry force him out. Also no one can defend against that, that's why he had snape teach him occlumency. So he did what he needed to do. He protected Harry throughout their duel and he aided Harry in pushing voldemort out.
Books can be used if their is ever a question that needs to be answered. For example the movie never answers, what happened to grindlewald, who killed Tonks and lupin, where did the sword of gryffindor come from, what happened to the kids after hogwarts, etc. The books can be called in if questions are needed. Versus threads feats from the movies dont count. So with that JK Rowling does count as she was THE creative consultant for all 8 films, producer for the last 2 films, and a very impactful occupations for all the films other than creative consultant.
Well if we go to the quote of Ron, "she knows more about you than you". She may not be just the expert on voldemort but the fact that in her first year she knows who voldemort is, and that he always feared dumbledore she definitely has at the very least a basic understanding and at the most an intermediate knowledge. Also Harry is the direct voice of Rowling as that is the main character, and he says dumbledore is the greatest sorcerer in the world, not knowing his power, like you say he doesn't know voldemorts power. So his statement stands to reason that dumbledore is greater.
It isn't helping you since you are losing this debate so.
The firestorm does not seem as powerful as the fiery serpent just more widespread. In any event it doesn't come close to the hogwarts shield feat.
That is irrelevant to the point you made. You said he tried to protect Harry. By your own point he failed. Undeniable. Your words. Quit making excuses.
Books are not the same as the movies. Movie feats only. Reread the rules. Find any of her opinions for the films then and post the evidence. Interviews considering her books only count for her books. She isn't the ultimate say for the films either way but feel free.
I never said Voldemort did not fear Dumbledore. I think it's good to fear a peer otherwise you'll get sloppy IMO. When the two met Voldemort took him on and didn't give a ****. According to you he's courageous as ****. Fine.
Abc logic based off an ignorant young child. That isn't evidence. You will go to extreme lengths due to your fanboyism. It's laughable.
You are delusional.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Elder wand is still the most powerful wand. Dumbledore despite having it was not the victor. Your speculation does not take away from the fact the elder wand is the most powerful wand in existence. That's an advantage he had but was unable to defeat Voldemort.The firestorm does not seem as powerful as the fiery serpent just more widespread. In any event it doesn't come close to the hogwarts shield feat.
That is irrelevant to the point you made. You said he tried to protect Harry. By your own point he failed. Undeniable. Your words. Quit making excuses.
Books are not the same as the movies. Movie feats only. Reread the rules. Find any of her opinions for the films then and post the evidence. Interviews considering her books only count for her books. She isn't the ultimate say for the films either way but feel free.
I never said Voldemort did not fear Dumbledore. I think it's good to fear a peer otherwise you'll get sloppy IMO. When the two met Voldemort took him on and didn't give a ****. According to you he's courageous as ****. Fine.
Abc logic based off an ignorant young child. That isn't evidence. You will go to extreme lengths due to your fanboyism. It's laughable.
You are delusional.
Yes it is the most powerful wand, I have acknowledged this already. Neither was voldemort and voldemort was actual putting more effort into the duel than dumbledore as dumbledore was just trying to protect Harry rather than kill voldemort. Also look at that the battle who is on the defensive 90% of the time. Dumbledore. With that we never see him go all out and we never see his full potential, while we see all of what voldemort can do. So with that even with the elder wand dumbledore wasn't going all out and then when he pushed back he made Tom switch tactics because Tom knew he couldn't win this way. Fact.
1. I know it blows that fires snake out of the water. So you believe this https://youtu.be/URbvT_pkAjI skip to the 1:45 is better than this https://youtu.be/aXLKOxATz4A? GTFO. He had the elder wand so any magic he put forth was powerful as it comes from the elder wand and with that dumbledore could replicate that as voldemort is not as powerful as dumbledore and dint have the loyalty of the elder wand like dumbledore did. So dumbledore could replicate that feat. It's debatable about that shield feat. Also wasn't the shield already hit and you could see it shattering? This is fact. So he broke a breaking Sheila and then broke the wand that he was using and felt it's resistance. So I'm not convinced. However that was pretty amazing as when I first saw it I was like WOW. However saying that dumbledore can't compete is where I stop liking it.
Why did dumbledore have snape teach him Occlumency than. Dumbledore can't protect Harry's mind since the way voldemort attacked his mind after disapparatimg away from sight and then went straight for Harry. He abandoned his duel with dumbledore because he couldn't win. Then he attempted to attack Harry but failed. So voldemorts a 2 time loser.
Haha you amaze me. I've already give you enough to chew on. You can't provide any proof to your claim, just speculation and interpretation. Mine has already been approved by a fellow debater while you would have just sat here waiting. She sure is a powerful voice for the movies. Interviews that involve her involve Harry Potter. Get over it.
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Yes it is the most powerful wand, I have acknowledged this already. Neither was voldemort and voldemort was actual putting more effort into the duel than dumbledore as dumbledore was just trying to protect Harry rather than kill voldemort. Also look at that the battle who is on the defensive 90% of the time. Dumbledore. With that we never see him go all out and we never see his full potential, while we see all of what voldemort can do. So with that even with the elder wand dumbledore wasn't going all out and then when he pushed back he made Tom switch tactics because Tom knew he couldn't win this way. Fact.1. I know it blows that fires snake out of the water. So you believe this https://youtu.be/URbvT_pkAjI skip to the 1:45 is better than this https://youtu.be/aXLKOxATz4A? GTFO. He had the elder wand so any magic he put forth was powerful as it comes from the elder wand and with that dumbledore could replicate that as voldemort is not as powerful as dumbledore and dint have the loyalty of the elder wand like dumbledore did. So dumbledore could replicate that feat. It's debatable about that shield feat. Also wasn't the shield already hit and you could see it shattering? This is fact. So he broke a breaking Sheila and then broke the wand that he was using and felt it's resistance. So I'm not convinced. However that was pretty amazing as when I first saw it I was like WOW. However saying that dumbledore can't compete is where I stop liking it.
Why did dumbledore have snape teach him Occlumency than. Dumbledore can't protect Harry's mind since the way voldemort attacked his mind after disapparatimg away from sight and then went straight for Harry. He abandoned his duel with dumbledore because he couldn't win. Then he attempted to attack Harry but failed. So voldemorts a 2 time loser.
Haha you amaze me. I've already give you enough to chew on. You can't provide any proof to your claim, just speculation and interpretation. Mine has already been approved by a fellow debater while you would have just sat here waiting. She sure is a powerful voice for the movies. Interviews that involve her involve Harry Potter. Get over it.
Your entire first post is a paragraph in which you can't prove a thing. It's all your flimsy interpretation. Saying Dumbledore is not going all out despite trying to protect Harry is friggin ridiculous. You say illogical things left and right without any proof.
It depends on the user so if Harry used the elder wand he would not be more powerful as Voldemort due to Voldemort's extraordinary skill. So no you can't have it both ways. This did increase Dumbledore's power. That is undeniable but that doesn't mean it is more powerful than Voldemort's power due to varying levels of skill. Voldemort is the best.
Either way it's speculation whether he could or couldn't. Voldemort did so it is a fact. The shield was damaged prior to but the combined might of hundreds of wizards which to me makes it more impressive because an extremely passed Voldemort brought it down in moments due to a concentrated, extended blast with the wand resisting him to boot.
You said Dumbledore was trying to protect him so regardless of your excuse he failed in his task. Voldemort changed tactics and was successful. Dumbledore was later damaged fatally by Voldemort's dark magic booby trap.
A de after agreeing with you doesn't really mean anything considering the debater.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I said "ALWAYS" worked in unison and has a piece of his soul as well. Quit picking and choosing what words I said and ignoring the rest, Skip.
Still isn't proof. Waiting on proof. Maybe a quote. Or a special features comment that you claim exists but refuse to produce. Something like that
Originally posted by juggermanI offered to do this prior to and you backed down. Not everything that is hit over our heads is explained in the special features. You moronically acted like wizards like these two weren't aware of their surroundings despite seeing them do so until I said I have them talking about it. You're not bright.
Still isn't proof. Waiting on proof. Maybe a quote. Or a special features comment that you claim exists but refuse to produce. Something like that
Originally posted by quanchi112
Your entire first post is a paragraph in which you can't prove a thing. It's all your flimsy interpretation. Saying Dumbledore is not going all out despite trying to protect Harry is friggin ridiculous. You say illogical things left and right without any proof.It depends on the user so if Harry used the elder wand he would not be more powerful as Voldemort due to Voldemort's extraordinary skill. So no you can't have it both ways. This did increase Dumbledore's power. That is undeniable but that doesn't mean it is more powerful than Voldemort's power due to varying levels of skill. Voldemort is the best.
Either way it's speculation whether he could or couldn't. Voldemort did so it is a fact. The shield was damaged prior to but the combined might of hundreds of wizards which to me makes it more impressive because an extremely passed Voldemort brought it down in moments due to a concentrated, extended blast with the wand resisting him to boot.
You said Dumbledore was trying to protect him so regardless of your excuse he failed in his task. Voldemort changed tactics and was successful. Dumbledore was later damaged fatally by Voldemort's dark magic booby trap.
A de after agreeing with you doesn't really mean anything considering the debater.
You honestly believe Dumbledore was going all out in that battle. If your protecting someone but not trying to kill the opposition you would hold back. Look up voldemort a wiki and read the very first paragraph. This proves dumbledore wasn't trying to kill voldemort and also we know he is protecting Harry. With this he was on the defensive for the majority of the battle. Fact. With that we don't see his full power. So yes there is proof to it.
Only factual thing is the elder wand being the most powerful wand in history. The wand is not the trump card you make it out to be. It may give him an advantage but based on feats not one that seems to help in the slightest. Rest is opinion.
So you are saying if we put a shield up made by the same people, dumbledore couldn't break it.? You can use any wand. So him being able to perform that by itself is not as impressive but still cool all the fireworks. So it resisting him after research is in the middle as after he used it, it broke. Also your own power is what it is, voldemort by himself has great power second to dumbledores, it's no shame in that dumbledore is just to smart, wise, experienced, and powerful.
Opinion. He protected Harry and succeeded. He protected Harry from voldemort during their duel. That was his purpose. Harry needed to use occlude cut that's why he was taught it. So dumbledore did his job, voldemort didn't.
Firestorm is better than the fire snake.