Originally posted by Galan007
Myself and Mr M were just talking about this in another thread. It seems that Reed may have used the UN to nullify Abraxas alone, which subsequently fixed the damage he caused to reality.
Yes the focal point was Abraxas but in that arc, on panel, Multi-Eternity was shown to be shattered right after Reed fired the UN. You also have that "all there was" statement by Reed so make what you will out of that.
The bio on the UN provided by Galan states that an incompetent wielder [insert Quasar] can potentially destroy the universe. That UN power was still repelled by a 5 gem gauntlet with ease. Make what you will out of that as well.
Complete IG under Starlin>>>AM if it really came down to it in MU 616 imo.
^^ One could also say, Abraxas was hit first (which is true)
and Then Eternity/Infinity shatter and are re-booted. (next page)
Originally posted by zopzopGalan, have you seen this? It actually backs up your claim :
It's from the Korvac Quest Fantastic Four Annual so it's canon.
But he also remembers ol' Mr M bringing that idea to light over a Year ago:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=559367&pagenumber=8
You seemed to have liked it too. 🙂
Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ One could also say, Abraxas was hit first (which is true)
and Then Eternity/Infinity shatter and are re-booted. (next page)He's seen it, cause he used it in his post.
But he also remembers ol' Mr M bringing that idea to light over a Year ago:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=559367&pagenumber=8
You seemed to have liked it too. 🙂
As to the thread, IMHO, Thanos wins. Starlin Era IG was indeed mulitversal. Remember that shockwave that Thanos sent out that caused havok throughout the multiverse including the home of the True Beyonders? EPIC.
Originally posted by ODGYes, it is just that: a theory. There is also evidence to suggest that Reed nullified(and recreated) the multiverse proper. Certainly not trying to claim otherwise.
^ Had the Abraxas storyline itself ever intimated that the Ultimate Nullifier could be used in such a manner, there would be at least some corroboration for this theory. Had the Ultimate Nullifier ever once erased the entire history of someone it nullified on-panel, there might be actual precedent for this theory. Had the complete history of Abraxas' actions been actually nullified, there might be a point to this theory.
But as I mentioned before: the UN destroying Abraxas alone(and subsequently fixing the damage he caused to reality by doing so) makes more sense then the UN destroying AND recreating the entire multiverse with the click of a button. However, often times comics don't make much sense anyway, which is why I'm not arguing either point... Doesn't matter to me one way or another. /shrug
^ Good.
Originally posted by zopzopThe IG is not multiversal. And that's not what happened.
Ah...As to the thread, IMHO, Thanos wins. Starlin Era IG was indeed mulitversal. Remember that shockwave that Thanos sent out that caused havok throughout the multiverse including the home of the True Beyonders? EPIC.
Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ You have proof Hickman did from the Marvel/DC cross-over?That would be kinda silly imo, for him to do that.That Cross-over had literally two pages dedicated to the IG solely. (Darkseid scene)Before and After that it was just another toy of many big toys.While the actual IG Arcs, plus its tie-ins, are full of information concerning the IG.I can't believe and Never will believe Hickman went to that Cross-over,to learn about the IG. (unless you get the answer from him directly)
*** But anyway ... (this may not be verbatim per your request, but close enuff imo)
In a conversation between Thanos and his doppelganger during Infinity War,the doppelganger suggests going to Another Universe to get Another IG and therefore become "God" of thatUniverse.
Thanos tells em, "unfortunately I have sentimental attachments to This (616) Reality"
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Interesting, with an Alternate IG Thanos suggests he wouldn't control 616, yet , the with the 616 IG Thanos confidently states:
"The Supreme Being of THIS" (616) "and All UniverseS" (alternates with other IGs)
Because people don't just rely on issues written by Marvel alone to write a particular comic book concept.
Or do you think that Gladiator was inspired by some pre-existing Marvel Superman analogue?
Let's do a little experiment. Let's ask everyone whether they know about the idea of the Infinity Gauntlet being non-functional outside its own universe, from JLA/Avengers or from some Marvel-written comic, before Hickman came on board.
And as far that unknown, obscure, Starlin written comic goes, when are you going to produce the scans? Because neither of those scans state that an Infinity Gauntlet becomes non-functional outside its native universe, nor do they allude to such a thing.
Originally posted by TheGodKillerBecause that cross-over is far more well known than some
obscure What If or tie-in that Starlin wrote in that era. And why
would Hickman ever publicly admit such a thing? What we do know
is that many people on other boards(cbr for example) have noted
how heavily inspired Hickman's New Avengers series seems to be
from Grant Morrison's JLA run. Hickman, an employee of Marvel
comics, DC's biggest market rival, would be loathe to admit that he
borrowed the concept behind the IG's limited functionality from a
DC crossover, but it's blatantly obvious, and denying it would be
akin to denying that Gladiator isn't inspired by Superman.
Because people don't just rely on issues written by Marvel alone to
write a particular comic book concept.
Or do you think that Gladiator was inspired by some pre-existing
Marvel Superman analogue?
Let's do a little experiment. Let's ask everyone whether they know
about the idea of the Infinity Gauntlet being non-functional outside
its own universe, from JLA/Avengers or from some Marvel-written
comic, before Hickman came on board.
That's all I wanted to really know.
And uhh, nah,
I'm not gonna ask anyone for their personal unsupported opinion.
Wait, didn't Hickman actually give a specific reasoning/explanation
WHY he made the IG confined to its reality?
Yes he did, and it had Nothing to do with Marvel/DC in any way, shape or form.
Originally posted by TheGodKillerAnd as far that unknown, obscure, Starlin written comic goes,
when are you going to produce the scans? Because neither of those
scans state that an Infinity Gauntlet becomes non-functional outside
its native universe, nor do they allude to such a thing.
Also, it's your opinion it doesn't even allude to such a thing,
but IMO, it's more than an allusion, it's actually indirect proposition,
which is closer to fact than not.
Thanos states with the 616 IG no universe is out of his reach.
Thanos/Doppelganger context of conversation tells us 616 is out of reach with an Alternate IG.
Originally posted by Mr MasterSo you have zero proof that Hickman got the idea from the cross-over.
Wait, didn't Hickman actually give a specific reasoning/explanation
WHY he made the IG confined to its reality?Yes he did, and it had Nothing to do with Marvel/DC in any way, shape or form.
It was actually You who highlighted the real Hickman facts to me:
Originally posted by TheGodKiller@MrMaster, Galan, Leo and anyone else who's interested:
Hickman explains why he seemingly downscaled the IG:
So, with that absolute evidence at hand,
I will dismiss myself from this part of the debate.
------------------------------------------
I also found Hickman stating the IG makes one "All Powerful"
and all IGs are not the same. (I hope he means 616 is still special)
My point is and will remain... just because somebody is multiversal doesn't give them the auto win against somebody universal. As we've seen universal powers beat multiversal powers. Plus we need to remember scale vs. scope during such arguments. Something could have more raw power.. but another could have a vast variety of powers that nullifies somebody with more raw power. Point is, Classic IG wins... current IG probably losses.
actually it's not the same.... Classic IG was shown to work outside of the 616... current IG has no power outside the 616. Nemesis was shown doing things beyond universal. As I pointed out in my example... a nuclear missle has more raw power than a gun that can freeze time... Doesn't mean the missle will win. The scope of power can and has overcome scale of power. This is seen from the lowest tier on up to the abstract level. Sometimes vareity can overcome raw power.
^^ Forget Nemesis, her feats are ridiculous, on a trans-multiversal scale.
Heck, some left over energy of 4 Gems was enough to create universes back to back on the top of the Ultraverse, almost destroyed All realities,
then the Time/Reality Gems nullify all those universes plus fix everything.
... meh, or just use even Magus KuRuPT, with his incomplete IG he was existing simultaneously across different planes of reality,
and when he battled Warlock over the IG,
it was a battle across countless Physical & Astral UniverseS.
He merged 616 and the duplicate 616 from literally over 100 UniverseS away!
... and on and on and on ... (I'm still focused on Magus btw lol)
^^ Magus ... nearly the entire time during Infinity War
he spent it over 100 universes away from 616.
And remember G,
he pulled Warlock into his universe and the IG still activated.
There's other examples like both he and Thanos visiting different Timelines.
* edit: After taking a quick look, Magus Never left his universe,
therefore he Never stepped into 616 at all.
Originally posted by Galan007I will put it to you this way. If My power only works in my house but you come into my house where it functions. Your power stretches the entire planet but in my house I am more powerful than you but your range of power is greater. Who wins ?
Once more: sans PIS/CIS, a multiversal power>a universal power. Total control/mastery over infinite universes>total control/mastery over a single universe.Not going to argue such a simple point with you any further, though. 🙂
Originally posted by Mr MasterI thought Magus was still in 616 when he assembled his faux IG, and stayed in 616 until he and Warlock(/w/ reality gem) battled?
^^ Magus ... nearly the entire time during Infinity War
he spent it over 100 universes away from 616.
Originally posted by Mr MasterI haven't peaked at the IG stuff for a long time, so I don't remember that. Mind posting the scans?
And remember G,
he pulled Warlock into his universe and the IG still activated.
The USB port on my laptop is phucking up, otherwise I'd simply plug in my HDD and look for myself.
Originally posted by Mr MasterRight, right. But were they not within 616 when they used the IG's power to visit said timelines?
There's other examples like both he and Thanos visiting different Timelines.
Originally posted by quanchi112I would simply go outside your house, switch off your main power breaker, and proceed to destroy you with extreme prejudice. 👆
I will put it to you this way. If My power only works in my house but you come into my house where it functions. Your power stretches the entire planet but in my house I am more powerful than you but your range of power is greater. Who wins ?
