Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet vs Dawn of Time Anti-Monitor...

Pardon if it seems like too much proof yall, but I wanted to be thorough.

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First: ... Magus was in another Universe and no where near 616.

Second: ... This Universe Magus was in was MANY UniverseS away from 616.

(at-least well over 100)

Third: ... The Dimensional Corridor is an infinite Nexus of Realities
also known as the "CrossRoads" or the "CrossRoads of Infinity"
which leads to other entire UniverseS. (Timelines/Alternates/Diverged/Parallel)

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When Galactus/Heroes went looking for Magus' "Relay Transmitters"
Starlin tells us it's: "In a Reality many steps removed from our own."

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15952032_1.jpg]

+++++++++++

Indeed ... about 100 UniverseS or so away:

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When Dr Doom and Kang reached the "Relay Transmitters" we learn:

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15952056_4.jpg]

"Our true goal lays farther down the Dimensional Corridor."

He means, Magus' stronghold! 🙂

... and these "Relay Transmitters" are already over 100 UniverseS away from 616!

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Magus' Stronghold was ...

"In a Far-Off Dimension, many Planes removed from our own Actuality"

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Yet Magus' Stronghold from the Relay Transmitters was still:

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15952037_6.jpg]

"In a control room several Realities away."

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The Dimensional Corridor is another term for the Cross-Roads of infinity,
a Nexus that leads to OTHER Actualities/UniverseS:

"The Magus travelled far down the Dimensional Corridor."

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Dr Doom and Kang also travelled the Nexus, finally enter the Magus's Universe:

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15952039_8.jpg]

"Breaking through to the desired Reality"

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Here the dialogue is clear ... 🙂

Galactus and heroes are located in the Universe with the "Relay Transmitters,"
they can't get data from the 616 Universe.

"Dimensional Rifts interfering with scans back to our Reality."

"Thor, I would have you journey back to our Actuality."

"The defense of our Universe requires this data."

"You'll be transported back to this Dimension once data is acquired."

✅

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Here Starlin tells us the Universe where the Relay Transmitters are, is:

"A Plane of existence with little relation to our own."

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Jim Starlin drills us with the fact that
Magus' Universe is MANY UniverseS away:

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15952057_11.jpg]

"In a Stronghold Many Realities removed from our own."

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Again ... in the actual scene where Magus takes the IG from Warlock!

"Within the Magus' Stronghold, Many Realities away"

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Again .. in YET another instance:

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15952059_13.jpg]

"A Reality far removed from our own."

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Again ... in wait, still another instance:

Here's 'Master of the World' ... who's consciousness has expanded to a trans-universal scale.

"Magus ... your fortress many Realities removed from here"

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Yea, ... still more!

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15952061_15.jpg]

"Within My Stronghold, in a Dimensional Plane far removed from the one you call home"

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This final time, the writer details the facts:

" ... a location which is far beyond the conventional definitions of Time and Place."

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There some of us who may not be satisfied due to the term "Dimensions"
being used, even though we know in Marvel "Dimensions" are "Universes."

Galactus/Heroes and Doom/Kang all used the "Dimensional Corridor"
to reach the "Relay Transmitters" and Magus' Reality.

The Dimensional Corridor is a Nexus to other UniverseS!

And if the term isn't "Dimensions/Realities/Actualities" isn't suffice,
well then, ... then "Universe" it shall be! pfft

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Ok, so first proof that the "Dimensional Corridor" is a Nexus:

[img=http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15952079_21.jpg]

There are 3 known Nexuses (including this one)
they are all avenues to other UniverseS (Timelines/Alternates/Parralel/Diverged)

In fact ...

Galactus clearly knew he was dealing with a Nexus of Realities:

In fact ...

When Surfer and Nova stepped out of the ship (needing to be strapped to it)
if they lost their strap, they would be lost forever in the Nexus:

[img=http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15952081_23.jpg]

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Oh, right, ... the term "Universe" ... my bad ... below!

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This should finalize the debate for good!

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When Koon attacked G's ship within the Nexus of Realities (Dimensional Corridor)
Surfer told him they needed to move on ... because, well ... check it out:

"We came to this Dimensional Corridor ..... Our Universe hangs in the balance."

Koon replies:

"Your Universe? ... I care nothing for Your Universe.

I only wish to return to My Universe after eons of being marooned here"

+++++++++++++++

Indeed ...

[img=http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15952083_25.jpg]

"... aid me in escaping this Eternal CrossRoads ...

... I discovered portals to a myriad of Planes ..."

Originally posted by Galan007
Poor quan. It'll take a while for him to recover. 👆

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
actually it's not the same.... Classic IG was shown to work outside of the 616... current IG has no power outside the 616. Nemesis was shown doing things beyond universal.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Random/Nemesis02.jpg Accordingly, Nemesis is the last thing you'd ever want to bring up in an IG debate. And this is Thanos with the IG anyway, i.e., no Ego Gem.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
As I pointed out in my example... a nuclear missle has more raw power than a gun that can freeze time... Doesn't mean the missle will win. The scope of power can and has overcome scale of power. This is seen from the lowest tier on up to the abstract level. Sometimes vareity can overcome raw power.

Odg, care to back your basic logic here ?

I was under the impression Nemesis did Far more than just that ...

... I'll begin here:

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First: The plot device used was a weakness given to Nemesis.

Nemesis was struggling for control of her being,
because the 6 Infinity Gems that make up her totality had gained consciousness:

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13985810_Nem_weak2.jpg]

This no doubt, not only made Nemesis vulnerable, but insane:

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13985809_Nem_weak1.jpg]

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Second: Although weakened due to the reasons above, she was still able to ...

... "Obliterate Two entire UniverseS" {one of which was 616} "In the blink of an eye."

Now, that may not seem like much, but those are the Two Prime Realities of Two separate MultiverseS.

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... go ...

^ You understand that despite the cliffhanger, it's revealed in the very next issue that she never actually destroyed the two universes or even killed those heroes? They were made to watch her "opening statement" of creation: an America-sized universe.

Which eventually collapsed on itself, destroyed the Godwheel through feedback, panicked her into teleporting herself onto the Ultraverse Earth, and made the Ultras fear that she would now destroy the Ultraforce Earth in order to write it over with her new creation.

Nemesis was turrible.

^^ Never heard of that before, including during my own reads of the arc, and its tie-ins.

I suppose you're suggesting this didn't happen either:

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Evidently after Nemesis obliterated the entire 616 Universe & the entire Ultraverse Universe,
she tried to create a small reality with parts from both UniverseS,
but since the Gems were hampering her, she was losing control,
because of this, Nemesis' power also broke down the walls between all realities.

Which lead to ALL Realities merging!

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13985851_IG_Nem_merges_Uni3.jpg]

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13985853_IG_Nem_merges_Uni4.jpg]

"Nemesis is still tinkering with Reality, and All the Walls have fallen down"

"Whatever -- Alternate versions of UltraForce & Avengers are coming from everywhere"

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Nemesis disintegrated EVERY version of Alternate UltraForce and Avenger there is,
in one swoop.

(This means she erased every Ultra of every Universe of the Malibu Multiverse houses the Ultraverse,
and every Avenger of every Universe of the Prime Multiverse that houses 616)

But with a plot twist ... (well, she's gotta lose after all, hahaha)

Nemesis allows the template versions of the Avengers and UltraForce to survive,
including the Black Knight lol.

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13985854_IG_Nem_merges_Uni5.jpg]

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13985855_IG_Nem_merges_Uni6.jpg]

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13985860_IG_Nem_merges_Uni7.jpg]

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13985865_IG_Nem_merges_Uni8.jpg]

"Either this is deliberate, or we got very, very lucky."

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Anyway friend,
I see and read this happening like Nemesis obliterating the Ultraverse and 616 in the prior scans,
I'll be adding the Handbook corroboration in a sec.

So, unless I see with my own eyes this retcon or dismissal of the posted feats above,
I can't accept anything else but what I see/read.

Mr. Master et al, what do you people think of the time during Infinity Gauntlet when Cloak swallowed Thanos and BFRed him into the Dark Dimension? Thanos busted out and blew up Cloak in the process.

Wouldn't that be an example of the IG functioning in another universe?

Kinda... but thanos could've done that under his own power imo

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Kinda... but thanos could've done that under his own power imo

^^ Just another example of the 616 IG doing its thing.

Thanx there Zop, forgot about that one.

How bout this friends ...

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Further arcs that had tie-ins to the story of Nemesis do not deal with Nemesis directly,
since after Nemesis' separation the Gems Never merged again.

Anyway, what they do continue to establish is the awesome power of Nemesis.

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We see more of what that First Wave did, you know,
the one that its "repercussions could only be guessed" ...

Guess no more.

Juggs was banished to the Crimson Cosmos sometime ago during this time.

The Crimson Cosmos is neither in the Ultraverse Multiverse, nor is it withIN 616,
it's in its own Space between realities.

Heh,
That left over energy in Nemesis AFTER the Gems split
aside from creating universeS on top of the Ultraverse,
had enough power to crash right thorough Crimson land,
and didn't stop there:

"This World between Worlds ...
a Wave of energy unknown suddenly sweeps across him
from Everywhere and Nowhere at once ...

... through All That Is or Ever Was ... as Reality Ends."

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Remember Amber Hunt absorbed and released the remaining Nemesis Waves as harmless energy.

Evidently, she still had a sliver of what she released.

This is what the power withIN her was able to accomplish:

"Across Two Dimensions, shattering the hidden SpaceS between ...
Ultras & mutants buffeted back & forth ,,,
from Universe to near Universe,
Reality to distant Reality...

From long before the Beginning of Time to far beyond the End."

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Uhh, I first see Nemesis' first wave ending Everything! Everything!
before Time/Reality Gems re-booted creation. ... holy!

I see, Amber (with a sliver of Nemesis energies) either remaking
Two MultiverseS (Prime & Malibu) or why not, it could also seem Everything!

Originally posted by ODG

Nemesis was turrible.

Nothing turrible about Nemesis 1 shotting all alternates except the prime 616 Avengers and the Ultraforce team.

Nothing turrible about Nemesis starting a creation event as soon as BK hit Nemesis' crown containing the gems.

"There is a shockwave of the new"

^And that was just the first wave.

Nothing turrible about - "everything begins again, the universe blooms" including the godwheel.

Nothing turrible about the "wave of creation picking up speed through the years" helping to jumpstart the evolution of the Ultras of that reality.

Nothing turrible about "NO ONE is untouched by the shockwave of the new". Even 616, "the world of Marvels."

^ Oh yeah, that was still only the first wave which was emitted from the REMNANT energy of only four gems because the setinent reality and time gems were rendered powerless.

Not "turrible" at all. 😎

All I learned from that event is that the African American blade > the Infinity Gems

^
The gems had an internal conflict between them which made Nemesis vulnerable due to a lack of focus. The blade only hit the crown where the gems were lodged. IMO, she was going to self destruct at some point inevitably.

So like bran said: the sword of negros>Nemesis. 👆

Originally posted by Galan007
So like bran said: the sword of negros>plot induced dysfunctional gems Nemesis. 👆

Fixed.

^^ 👆

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😂 ... I didn't realize, when Nemesis disintegrated EVERY version of Alternate UltraForce and Avenger there is, in one swoop no less.

(literally affecting the entirety of Two MultiverseS)

Nemesis yawns. lol

Nemesis also allows the template versions of the Avengers and UltraForce to survive,
including the Blade Africana lol.

"Either this is deliberate, or we got very, very lucky."

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... give the girl some unbiased love yall, come on, yall can do it. 😛