Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, i'll take am. he'd gathered power from many many universes. ig is just a universal weapon imo.
Note: Magus did say that he was able to physically manifest simultaneously on many different planes of reality, even with a incomplete IG. This would pertain to anything outside of the Marvel 616 reality making the nature of this function multiversal imo.
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
A lone CCU is theoretically equal to a complete IG...So you see, you dont need "GODS" backing to be equal to or greater than the IG...
With those [b]FACTS
in mind, the IG is very finite, is definitely NOT "inexhaustable," and really is in the same boat as Dawn of Time Anti-Monitor...but lacks the raw horsepower that the AM possessed. [/B]
Originally posted by SundippedNote: Magus did say that he was able to physically manifest
simultaneously on many different planes of reality, even with a
incomplete IG. This would pertain to anything outside of the Marvel
616 reality making the nature of this function multiversal imo.
It wasn't just talk neither. (aside from Magus merging 616 & the
Duplicate from over 100 entire UniverseS away, withIN Another
Reality he was also controlling).
Galactus & Co. had to travel down a freakin Nexus to find him!
When Magus & Warlock merged with the Incomplete IG and fought over control,
it "was a battle fought across countless Physical Planes (universeS)
and Astral Planes. (realms of essence/spirit)
Incomplete IG can do that, aside from the UN bit and so much more,
but somehow true Godhood (Complete IG) is "universal." 😐
^^
Also, the Gauntlet missing the reality gem was devastating the reality indirectly when Magus and Adam clashed for control of it.
Galactus and company couldn't outrace the ripple effect caused by this. In fact, the farther the blast radiated, it picked up in velocity.
^ So we know now that even missing the reality gem, the gauntlet is capable of destroying a reality. So much for the AM getting the lone credit for this kind of destruction which was constantly being brought up in his favor.
Originally posted by Sundipped
Note: Magus did say that he was able to physically manifest simultaneously on many different planes of reality, even with a incomplete IG. This would pertain to anything outside of the Marvel 616 reality making the nature of this function multiversal imo.
Multiversal...eh?
A lone FLAWED CCU has an omniversal feat thats greater than that...
Originally posted by Sundipped
😂
How dare you compare a CCU to the IG. Magus had 5 but still chose to seek out the IG because it was more powerful.
Also, versaility with the IG>>>"raw horsepower anyday.
A CCU's ability to perform is directly porportional to the ability of its weilder to get performance out of it...
For example, the Magus with 5 CCU's was more impressive than the Goddess with 30...
Thanos with a lone CCU defeated Eternity without Eternity even having the ability to fight back...
Read em and weep, all signs point to Mephisto knowing exactly what he was talking about when he cliamed that a lone CCU could potentially equal the IG; wether that level of performance is achieved or not just depends on whose hands a CCU is in...
Originally posted by Mr Master
👆It wasn't just talk neither. (aside from Magus merging 616 & the
Duplicate from over 100 entire UniverseS away, withIN Another
Reality he was also controlling).Galactus & Co. had to travel down a freakin Nexus to find him!
When Magus & Warlock merged with the Incomplete IG and fought over control,
Physical Planes (universeS)
it "was a battle fought [b]across countless
and Astral Planes. (realms of essence/spirit)Incomplete IG can do that, aside from the UN bit and so much more,
but somehow true Godhood (Complete IG) is "universal." 😐 [/B]
Once again, a lone flawed CCU has a better feat than that...
So once again, all signs point to Mephisto being absolutely correct in his statement that a lone CCU could equal the complete IG...
Just to break up the bandwagon a bit, and be fair to both parties...
Before the events of COIE, DC's multiverse contained an infinite amount of universes...
"The number of universes--and earths--was infinite[...] Until the coming of the Crisis":
"The entire multiverse was destroyed. At the time there was an infinite number of universes. The Anti-Monitor's attack[...] Left just one.":
"The Crisis to come would usher in a wave of infinite deaths on infinite worlds.":
That being said, for each positive matter universe AM destroyed, his anti-matter universe expanded to fill the void. Basically, every time he destroyed a positive matter universe, he gained a universe-worth of anti-matter energy:
So when AM absorbed the entire anti-matter universe:
...He would have gained power equivalent to an infinite amount of universes.
---
Aside from that, an argument can also be made that AM was already a multiversal power before he even began his rampage on the positive matter multiverse. I say this because the original Monitor was linked to, and powered by, all positive matter throughout the multiverse. That's why he became increasingly weaker with each positive matter universe AM destroyed:
But despite Monitor being a confirmed multiversal force, AM(at his absolute weakest levels) was still Monitor's exact equal:
"A war waged with equal power... A war in which there could be no victor."
Thus AM was logically/canonically a multi-multiversal power(if that makes sense) after destroying the positive matter multiverse, and absorbing the anti-matter universe. ie. he was already a multiversal power at base levels, then he added yet another multiverse-worth of energy on top of that. Multi-multiversal! :-)
This, again, helps explain why Spectre, at the most powerful levels we've ever seen him, still required a massive amp just to momentarily thwart AM:
(an act that would ultimately render Spectre comatose, and AM alive and well.)
Just some food for thought, is all.
Originally posted by Sundipped
^^
Also, the Gauntlet missing the reality gem was devastating the reality [B]indirectly when Magus and Adam clashed for control of it.Galactus and company couldn't outrace the ripple effect caused by this. In fact, the farther the blast radiated, it picked up in velocity.
^ So we know now that even missing the reality gem, the gauntlet is capable of destroying a reality. So much for the AM getting the lone credit for this kind of destruction which was constantly being brought up in his favor. [/B]
Big deal that an incomplete IG was that capable; once again, a lone FLAWED CCU has done more...
And Dawn of Time Anti-Monitor destroyed many, many realities...and survived the Creation Blast at point blank range...this is greater than any attack EVER withstood by an IG weilder.
Originally posted by The Merchant
Eternity wasn't even mentioned in the story when Thanos had the CCU, and later on it was discovered that the Abstracts and LT allow the CCu's to cause all that so that the Beyonders can study them.
Yeah...that was stated, but I call out as BS writing; you really think the Abstracts would really just allow themselves to be destroyed/defeated/manipulated on several occasions just so that the True Beyonders could "study" them?
@Merchant
Yeah, Eternity never directly appeared in that story with Thanos with a CCU (the CCU that eventually became Kubik to be exact), but never the less, Eternity replaced the sentience of the universe with his own...
In other words he replaced Eternity's sentience with his own simply by willing it to happen and Eternity couldnt do anything about it...
Originally posted by Sundipped
Note: Magus did say that he was able to physically manifest simultaneously on many different planes of reality, even with a incomplete IG. This would pertain to anything outside of the Marvel 616 reality making the nature of this function multiversal imo.
i've actually been over all of this is detail in multiple threads and this isn't the place to go through it again. it allowed thanos to take over eternity--the 616 version of eternity. but that eternity (and every alternate version of eternity) is a multiverse (demonstrated several times over in multiple sources) unto itself. in that sense, sure, the ig is "multiversal". but....that's not the definition everyone adheres to for eternity, OR for multiverse. the term multiverse is......an issue for some. too much emphasis on nomenclature, not enough on context. meh, doesn't matter to me. i have confidence that at some point, the issue will be cleared up in a more definitive manner.
the idea that this is an open and shut case for some is pretty amusing though. we know the ig>eternity. that is all. am absorbed the power of INFINITE universes (INFINITE "eternities" some would say). because someone goes around and says they are 'god' is pretty meaningless. god is also a term thrown around rather haphazardly in marvel...... could the ig win? sure, i guess. but i'll take infinite universes worth of power, (including all alternate and otherworld versions) over an item that allowed thanos to take over just ONE version of eternity. to say he COULD have taken more is speculatory, though each is welcome to their own opinion on the matter. 🙂
Originally posted by leonidas
i've actually been over all of this is detail in multiple threads and this isn't the place to go through it again. it allowed thanos to take over eternity--the 616 version of eternity. but that eternity (and every alternate version of eternity) is a multiverse (demonstrated several times over in multiple sources) unto itself. in that sense, sure, the ig is "multiversal". but....that's not the definition everyone adheres to for eternity, OR for multiverse. the term multiverse is......an issue for some. too much emphasis on nomenclature, not enough on context. meh, doesn't matter to me. i have confidence that at some point, the issue will be cleared up in a more definitive manner.the idea that this is an open and shut case for some is pretty amusing though. we know the ig>eternity. that is all. am absorbed the power of INFINITE universes (INFINITE "eternities" some would say). because someone goes around and says they are 'god' is pretty meaningless. god is also a term thrown around rather haphazardly in marvel...... could the ig win? sure, i guess. but i'll take infinite universes worth of power, (including all alternate and otherworld versions) over an item that allowed thanos to take over just ONE version of eternity. to say he COULD have taken more is speculatory, though each is welcome to their own opinion on the matter. 🙂
👆
Originally posted by The Merchant
Abstracts have never been defeated by a lone CCU on-panel. And why not? They're experiments, the Beyonders aren't evil or good, and if they did cross the line LT would stop them, since it's implied he is above them.
Yes they have...
Thanos defeated Chronos without breaking a sweat with a CCU...
Reed Richards owned Doom when he had the power of Galactus with a CCU...
