Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet vs Dawn of Time Anti-Monitor...

Originally posted by Galan007
Just to break up the bandwagon a bit, and be fair to both parties...

Before the events of COIE, DC's multiverse contained an infinite amount of universes...

"The entire multiverse was destroyed. At the time there was an infinite number of universes. The Anti-Monitor's attack[...] Left just one.":

"The Crisis to come would usher in a wave of infinite deaths on infinite worlds.":

That being said, for each positive matter universe AM destroyed, his anti-matter universe expanded to fill the void. Basically, every time he destroyed a positive matter universe, he gained a universe-worth of anti-matter energy:

So when AM absorbed the entire anti-matter universe:

...He would have gained power equivalent to an infinite amount of universes.

---

Aside from that, an argument can also be made that AM was already a multiversal power before he even began his rampage on the positive matter multiverse. I say this because the original Monitor was linked to, and powered by, all positive matter throughout the multiverse. That's why he became increasingly weaker with each positive matter universe AM destroyed:

But despite Monitor being a confirmed multiversal force, AM(at his absolute weakest levels) was still Monitor's exact equal:

"A war waged with equal power... A war in which there could be no victor."

Thus AM was logically/canonically a multi-multiversal power(if that makes sense) after destroying the positive matter multiverse, and absorbing the anti-matter universe. ie. he was already a multiversal power at base levels, then he added yet another multiverse-worth of energy on top of that. Multi-multiversal! :-)

This, again, helps explain why Spectre, at the most powerful levels we've ever seen him, still required a massive amp just to momentarily thwart AM:

(an act that would ultimately render Spectre comatose, and AM alive and well.)

Just some food for thought, is all.

Originally posted by leonidas
i've actually been over all of this is detail in multiple threads and this isn't the place to go through it again. it allowed thanos to take over eternity--the 616 version of eternity. but that eternity (and every alternate version of eternity) is a multiverse (demonstrated several times over in multiple sources) unto itself. in that sense, sure, the ig is "multiversal". but....that's not the definition everyone adheres to for eternity, OR for multiverse. the term multiverse is......an issue for some. too much emphasis on nomenclature, not enough on context. meh, doesn't matter to me. i have confidence that at some point, the issue will be cleared up in a more definitive manner.

the idea that this is an open and shut case for some is pretty amusing though. we know the ig>eternity. that is all. am absorbed the power of INFINITE universes (INFINITE "eternities" some would say). because someone goes around and says they are 'god' is pretty meaningless. god is also a term thrown around rather haphazardly in marvel...... could the ig win? sure, i guess. but i'll take infinite universes worth of power, (including all alternate and otherworld versions) over an item that allowed thanos to take over just ONE version of eternity. to say he COULD have taken more is speculatory, though each is welcome to their own opinion on the matter. 🙂

Why would you pick the being with far inferior battle feats? Because he absorbed multiple universes? I guess that doesn't have the same zing for me it does you.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Why would you pick the being with far inferior battle feats? Because he absorbed multiple universes? I guess that doesn't have the same zing for me it does you.

but that is one of my issues--the battle feats. the era was very different, so the 'cosmic battles' that have since become more common, just....didn't happen. for that reason, i guess i just don't put the stock in the battle feats that you do. imo, the am would have walked through the beings that thanos did, and i think his defeat of that version of the spectre was as great as any battle feat that thanos has. too me, the am amassed more demonstrable power. there's nothing more insidious in my opinion than that.

If people believe the 616 IG was/is multiversal, that's fine. Personally, I have no problem with that at all--- we are all entitled to our own opinions. However, what needs to be understood is that DoT AM was [also] no less than a multiversal power. In fact, given that AM was stalemating a confirmed multiversal power(Monitor) eons before absorbing the AMU, he was, in all likelihood, a multiversal power even at his weakest level--- and twice that powerful after absorbing the AMU.

Even if the IG supporters still believe Thanos wins, if they can at least acknowledge the above AM-facts, I'll be happy. 🙂

It cant be done sir, quan has brainwashed so many in here. His powerse are growing.

Up next, age of quan.

lol you give quan waaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much credit. most around here see him for what he is, and ignore his posts and opinions.

Originally posted by leonidas
lol you give quan waaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much credit. most around here see him for what he is, and ignore his posts and opinions.

Or alternately, f**k with him about and get a good laugh in!

😉

👆

Originally posted by leonidas
but that is one of my issues--the battle feats. the era was very different, so the 'cosmic battles' that have since become more common, just....didn't happen. for that reason, i guess i just don't put the stock in the battle feats that you do. imo, the am would have walked through the beings that thanos did, and i think his defeat of that version of the spectre was as great as any battle feat that thanos has. too me, the am amassed more demonstrable power. there's nothing more insidious in my opinion than that.

Fair enough Leo, Fair enough 👆

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
A CCU's ability to perform is directly porportional to the ability of its weilder to get performance out of it...

For example, the Magus with 5 CCU's was more impressive than the Goddess with 30...

Thanos with a lone CCU defeated Eternity without Eternity even having the ability to fight back...

Read em and weep, all signs point to Mephisto knowing exactly what he was talking about when he cliamed that a lone CCU could potentially equal the IG; wether that level of performance is achieved or not just depends on whose hands a CCU is in...

I guess you missed this part.

Originally posted by Mr Master
the Goddess had 30 CCUs, and yet it
was stated not in theoretical dialogue [b]but with certainty, that the 30 CCUs combined were < IG.
[/B]

To add to that, if Magus with the CCUs was so great, then why didn't he have THESE kinds of revelations of power when he acquired them? He basically ditched them in favor of the gauntlet.

And so what Magus beat Eternity. Thanos upsurped his essence. Those considered peers to Eternity can't even stand in close proximity to the gauntlet. Adam floored a Watcher with his back turned.

Now show me a CCU durability battle feat that can match Nebula tanking a Cosmic "crossing the streams" ghostbusters attack like this.

Novice IG weider>>>experienced CCU weider in terms of battle feats. There's no way around this.

Originally posted by Galan007
If people believe the 616 IG was/is multiversal, that's fine. Personally, I have no problem with that at all--- we are all entitled to our own opinions. However, what needs to be understood is that DoT AM was [also] no less than a multiversal power. In fact, given that AM was stalemating a confirmed multiversal power(Monitor) eons before absorbing the AMU, he was, in all likelihood, a multiversal power even at his weakest level--- and twice that powerful after absorbing the AMU.

Even if the IG supporters still believe Thanos wins, if they can at least acknowledge the above AM-facts, I'll be happy. 🙂

Well said friend.. I personally believe Thanos wins. It has more to do with how I see a fight between somebody with the IG vs. Somebody with the UN. The UN has the better scale of a feat.. but the scope/variety of the IG's abilities give it the advantage to me. I kinda see the same thing here... If we give the AM more raw power.. I believe the IG gives one many more options to win. Just my two cents, but if somebody believes the AM wins, I have no issue. When dealing with powers like these two.. sometimes the best bet and safe bet is.. Stalemate

And oh yeah, phuck what Mephisto said. He stated Thanos was basically God when he acquired the IG.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
When dealing with powers like these two.. sometimes the best bet and safe bet is.. Stalemate

@Sundipped

As pertains that statement made during the Infinity Crusade, it was made by either the Surfer or the Goddess if I remember correctly (cant remember exactly at the moment)...

If it was the Surfer, then thats a big LOL as I cant recall him ever handling a CCU or the IG (he did in a What If, but that doesnt count here)...

If it was the Goddess, then I still contend that she simply lacked the ability to get them to respond to her...afterall, based on feats, Magus with 5 CCU's was superior to her with 30 of them.

As pertains combat feats, the CCU's might not have one similar to the scan you posted of Nebula facing the comic heirarchy, but a FLAWED CCU was compressing the ENTIRE Omniverse!!

Lets let that sink in for a moment...the entire dam Omniverse was being compressed by a Lone FLAWED CCU...that feat trumps ANYTHING performed by the 616 IG...anything.

We cant disregard Mephisto's words concerning these things as a result; all signs point to him being spot on as pertains the issue of the peak theoretical power of a CCU...

Originally posted by Sundipped
And oh yeah, phuck what Mephisto said. He stated Thanos was basically God when he acquired the IG.

So what if Mephisto said that; compared to the rest of the Cosmic heirarchy Thanos with the IG basically was GOD...

But that doesnt mean that Thanos with the IG was GOD in absolute terms as their are powers out there equal to or superior to the complete IG...

The IG was created from a creature diffrent then god, he was not GOD. He couldnt hurt Maelstrom correct?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder

Once again, a lone flawed CCU has a better feat than that...

I'm only pointing out how an Incomplete IG can simultaneously
access Countless UniverseS both Physical and Astral.

But I didn't bring up how the same Incomplete IG effortlessly owns instantaneous Multiversal eraser/creator (UN) with a thought.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder

So once again, all signs point to Mephisto being absolutely correct
in his statement that a lone CCU could equal the complete IG...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder

As pertains that statement made during the Infinity Crusade, it was
made by either the Surfer or the Goddess if I remember correctly
(cant remember exactly at the moment)...

If it was the Surfer, then thats a big LOL as I cant recall him ever
handling a CCU or the IG

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder

If it was the Goddess, then I still contend that she simply lacked the
ability to get them to respond to her...afterall, based on feats,
Magus with 5 CCU's was superior to her with 30 of them.

The Goddess's will was stronger than both Warlock and Magus.
Also, it doesn't matter about who was wielding the Cosmic Egg.

The statement was made with certainty by Starlin!

Also ... Starlin had the Goddess out to conquer "All Realities" with the 30 CCUs!

Yet Starlin was clear:

"Experience has shown that the CCUs are Nearly all powerful but Not quite!

The Infinity Gems are a FAR More Potent Force."

swank

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder

As pertains combat feats, the CCU's might not have one similar to
the scan you posted of Nebula facing the comic heirarchy, but a
FLAWED CCU was compressing the ENTIRE Omniverse!!

Lets let that sink in for a moment...the entire dam Omniverse was
being compressed by a Lone FLAWED CCU...that feat trumps
ANYTHING performed by the 616 IG...anything.

If that wasn't enough.

Sersi, with a fraction of the fraction above ... lol!

Recreated Two MultiverseS (the one that houses 616 and the other that has the Ultraverse)

There .. so please, no more "flawed ccu compressing omniverse" gaga,
when "some left over energy" of the Gems can do all that,
and even less of that energy used to do what Sersi did.

Omniversal cancellation/reinstallation > Omniversal compression/decompression.

AND ... we're talking a Fraction of the IG's power,
and even a smaller fraction concerning Sersi.

1st off your premise that Starlin said those things is garbage as the writers technically say everything in comics (even the obvious errors)...

So whats your stance:

a) The writers say everything and thus anything any character says in a comicbook is law (despite how wrong and/or contradictory it might be)...

b) That the characters themselves "speak" with their personal storehouse of knowledge, intellect, experiences, ect and are subject to error...

Which is it?

Either answer you give, I will eat you alive argument wise given what you stated in your above post; pick your poison...

💃

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Thanos with the Infinty Gauntlet vs the Anti-Monitor when he was at his strongest (which was at the Dawn of Time)...

Battle to the Death or KO with no BFR...

Who wins?

Originally posted by ODG
On that underlined part, Anti-Monitor was far from peak levels then.

Yeah, you are technically correct, but in the spirit of the thread lets assume that at the time right before the Creation Blast, that the Anti-Monitor was at his strongest...