RotS Sidious -vs- Count Dooku

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
We've gone over this before big buddy... You have no proof Mace new Vaapad at that point... Even if he did... why or how would you use vaapad in sparring and against a lightsider? you wouldn't and it would've be as effective. Lastly, Dooku was clearly younger and in his prime more and Mace had not yet come into his own. That is a very distinct and real possibility as well. Regardless, sparring is very different than a life and death fight.

Agreed. 👆 Mace never uses his vaapad in sparring matches. And we don't know when Mace created the vaapad.

Dooku would handle Mace in a saber match too awesr

Why wouldn't Mace use Vaapad in a sparring match? It's his primary lightsaber style, and you have no evidence to support such an inference.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Agreed. 👆 Mace never uses his vaapad in sparring matches. And we don't know when Mace created the vaapad.

Yes we do. Before Kenobi was old enough to specialize in a lightsaber form.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Yes we do. Before Kenobi was old enough to specialize in a lightsaber form.

I didn't hear it before. Which source says this ? Nevertheless, Windu is 30 years younger than Dooku, I don't think he was in his prime at the time before TPM.

And ? Now we can be sure about that Windu had developed the Vaapad at the time in TPM. I don't think Windu & Dooku's sparring matches happened in a close time to TPM either. It is still ambiguous.

10 years before TPM maybe ? While Dooku was still a true jedi and friend of Windu, because at the time of TPM, Dooku was already ready to leave the Jedi Order.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Why wouldn't Mace use Vaapad in a sparring match? It's his primary lightsaber style, and you have no evidence to support such an inference.

This is getting ridiculous that I would even have to answer such an obvious and stupid question.

First, please give me the exact date of this sparring match? No date has ever been produced when I ask this question. There is no date, thus we have no clue if it was before or after mace MASTERED vaapad.

Second, to even think you'd use Vaapad to the same degree in sparring as in a life or death situation is beyond retarded. Part of Vaapad is using the DS emotions of Mace and channeling them to increase his power levels. It can also channel a DS energy as well. The whole super conducting loop. Thus, if Mace is fighting a friend... who is a Jedi and not a DS.. There would be no loop... There would be no animosity or anger or motivation to save the Republic. he's not fighting for his life and against a sith Lord... he's fighting a friend in sparring. To even think Vaapad for be used or even as effective is bordering on retarded to be honest.

In a Force battle or All-out, it's not even close. But it might be in pure lightsaber duel.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Second, to even think you'd use Vaapad to the same deg--snip*

Tsk, tsk. I don't care about your opinion on how hard he was fighting, you said Mace didn't use Vaapad in his sparring matches, and I told you to back it up. Instead you conceded without argument, and I have nothing else to say on the matter.

Originally posted by McP
But it might be in pure lightsaber duel.

Nope, it is not, especialy while RotS Sidious is probably physically strong (or stronger) as Savage Opress or Darth Maul. Plus he is more skilled, and faster.

Dooku has no chance here, he can't even replicate the same feat he did against Yoda. The reason he did good against Yoda is he knows the every weaknesses of ataru and Yoda can't produce enough kinetic power with his little shoto lightsaber blade.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Tsk, tsk. I don't care about your opinion on how hard he was fighting, you said Mace didn't use Vaapad in his sparring matches, and I told you to back it up. Instead you conceded without argument, and I have nothing else to say on the matter.

You have ZERO proof that he used it. Actually you made the claim that he had both mastered it and used it. The onus lies DIRECTLY on you not me. Since you failed to prove your case I'll accept your concession.

Further, I was just talking about even if he did use it how it wouldn't be to the same degree.. So even if you happen to (which you won't) to prove your case... He still would've be using it to the same degree as Sids thus the comparison was completely false and useless. To even compare a sparring match among friends to a life and death struggle is bordering on idiotic

Oh yeah, Sidious is still a ways stronger, a ways faster, and even more skilled/unorthodox. Dooku probably does about the same as Maul did in his final bout with Palps.

Still waiting for you to prove your case about the sparring match bud

2 perzonz goez with dooku.. who????

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Still waiting for you to prove your case bud

I didn't make one. I called you out on yours.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
We've gone over this before big buddy... You have no proof Mace new Vaapad at that point... Even if he did... why or how would you use vaapad in sparring and against a lightsider? you wouldn't and it would've be as effective. Lastly, Dooku was clearly younger and in his prime more and Mace had not yet come into his own. That is a very distinct and real possibility as well. Regardless, sparring is very different than a life and death fight.

I think you completely missed my point, which was that Dooku "form" isn't by default "weak" against "Kinetic energy", or anyone whose strong.

At no point was I making a case for Dooku being superior to Windu (although I do think he would give Mace a run for his money).

And I wouldn't use their sparring as an argument for Dooku being greater than Mace. But I would use it as proof of Dooku being in the elite 3 Jedi Swordsmen, considering that ONLY Dooku and Yoda were even capable of beating Mace.

I would also use it as yet another example that Dooku's form can handle "strong" people.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Why wouldn't Mace use Vaapad in a sparring match? It's his primary lightsaber style, and you have no evidence to support such an inference.

This was your initial premise. You're posing a question as if he already know vaapad. So I'm asking you to post the proof of this. Second, let's say for a second he did... can you prove he'd mastered it by this point in time when they "sparred"? Further, even if he did to both of those... Sparring and a life and death fight are worlds apart. Not to mention Mace not being able to draw on his opponents dark energy since he's a lightsider. All of which make any sparring match next to useless for ROTS Mace

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
This was your initial premise. You're posing a question as if he already know vaapad. So I'm asking you to post the proof of this. Second, let's say for a second he did... can you prove he'd mastered it by this point in time when they "sparred"? Further, even if he did to both of those... Sparring and a life and death fight are worlds apart. Not to mention Mace not being able to draw on his opponents dark energy since he's a lightsider. All of which make any sparring match next to useless for ROTS Mace

And Dooku was able to defeat Vaapad Windu:

As you can see his saber prowess is attributed to the unusual style he developed.
It is farther confirmed by Yoda stating that Dooku is on parr with Windu even as a Sith.

Originally posted by Arhael
You keep mentioning sparring but there is, also, a thing called competition, where both fighters go all out like in real fight.

And we know that Mace was humble, while Dooku was competitive. Mace wasn't trying to win the sparring matches against Saesee Tiin nor Quinlan Vos, why would be any different against Count Dooku ?

And Dooku, even as a Jedi, was a competitor and close to the dark side.

Savage disarmed Dooku with one clean hit.

Sidious held off Savage and Maul with one arm each.

Sidious smacks Dooku has hard as he can, Dooku goes flying and probably dies.

Kinetic power strokes ftw