Originally posted by ScreamPaste
haermm No. 😐 Goku is so gullible it's physically painful to watch. Remember Raditz' tail?Stop trying to scale by power level, it doesn't work. 😬
I felt nerdy in a "bad" way just typing it.
Point is though, there's not much reason to doubt Vegeta when he tried blowing up the planet. Cell saying he could take out a solar system falls under hyperbole, sure, but they've blown up enough planetary bodies where we could take their word for it.
Originally posted by carver9
Goku is more durable...he can walk through planet busting power (Frieza tanked it a d he was near death)
Black haired Goku is canonically weaker than Freeza though. 👆
Goku is a better fighter
👆
Goku is stronger...the shockwaves from his fights at his weakest destroys nearby mountains.
Show me a single fight in the manga where black hair Goku destroys mountains with the shockwaves of his punches. 👆
Goku power output as a kid is Herald +. As an adult, it was stated Rhys he can destroy multiple of planets with a casual blast.
Shame he can't take a punch. 👆
This is black hair Goku I'm talking about, not even approaching Super Saiyan yet.
Black hair Goku is weaker than Freeza. 👆
For the "Goku can't take a punch" side, there's not much hard evidence, but there is this:
That's a pretty ridiculous impact crater, to chalk it up to simple gravity.. It's not hard evidence of strength level, but it does imply they can take, and dish out, some tremendous physical attacks.
Also, remember that in early DB, Tao Pai Pai used to turn pillars and trees into personal airplanes. Spidey could toss trucks about a block or so, but Tao was riding the things he threw across large sections of land..
Basically, their strength level is in a "great, but vague" area. I don't think Supes would take Goku's head off, at the least. (Not that it matters, with Supermans speed level, but just saying..)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Black haired Goku is canonically weaker than Freeza though. 👆Black hair Goku is weaker than Freeza. 👆
No, Buu saga black haired Goku was way more powerful than Frieza. Let alone BoG black haired Goku.
You already know why Bills said that base Goku's weaker than Frieza, so why are you playing at this game? Like Base Goku would blow Frieza up with a single punch.
Originally posted by cdtmThat is not a thousandth as impressive as Superman's punches.
For the "Goku can't take a punch" side, there's not much hard evidence, but there is this:That's a pretty ridiculous impact crater, to chalk it up to simple gravity.. It's not hard evidence of strength level, but it does imply they can take, and dish out, some tremendous physical attacks.
Also, remember that in early DB, Tao Pai Pai used to turn pillars and trees into personal airplanes. Spidey could toss trucks about a block or so, but Tao was riding the things he threw across large sections of land..
Basically, their strength level is in a "great, but vague" area. I don't think Supes would take Goku's head off, at the least. (Not that it matters, with Supermans speed level, but just saying..)
Originally posted by TheTyrantGoku is stronger than Freeza when he transforms.
No, Buu saga black haired Goku was way more powerful than Frieza. Let alone BoG black haired Goku.You already know why Bills said that base Goku's weaker than Frieza, so why are you playing at this game? Like Base Goku would blow Frieza up with a single punch.
Not in base.
Back in Frieza saga, base Goku was making final form Frieza somewhat struggle. Can't recall if it was 50 or 100 percent Frieza, but regardless, that should be enough proof that base Goku by Buu saga, or even Cell Games, would shatter Frieza with a single punch.
Also, base Goku was able to deflect Buu and knock him away. As if Frieza could do that.
King Kai confirmed Bills statement.
When Goku hit KKx20 the best he could do was slightly graze 50% Frieza's hands with his strongest blast. Base Goku never faced Buu either.
Originally posted by NemeBroHey, giving the boy a chance to learn his mistake.
That is not a thousandth as impressive as Superman's punches.
Its also a feat done by someone 8x that of SS3!Goku.
Originally posted by NemeBro
That is not a thousandth as impressive as Superman's punches.
For the super high end stuff like cracking the moon against Black Racers face, sure. Who does? Even The Thing doesn't have stuff like that, and he's around cl 100..
On average though, they don't usually make craters that large when they slam each other into the Earth.
Again, I'm not trying to prove they can compete with Superman in raw physical strength. Only that they're physical tougher then they get credit for, imo. A lot of arguments against Z almost seem to try and put them at class 10 or below on pure lifting feats...
I'd put them above guys like Spidey and Cage, at the least, if not into the 100 ton category just by virtue of their striking feats (And Tao's throwing feats, which isn't really something I can see someone like Cage or Carnage duplicating)
Take Iron Fist and his Helicarrier buster. Do you agree the Z fighters have equal or greater striking feats? Because, IF is considered at about cl 100 in striking ability..
Originally posted by BloodRain
Yeah, the very best physical feat we have is that one clocking in at sub-Town level. Characters far weaker than Supes wreck that level.
GT lifting feat?
Yeah, that's their best lifting feat. Too bad it's GT.
Not too many bricks really compare to Superman in raw strength, though. Yet, for whatever reason, don't get put under the microscope like Z folks do (Random example: How much has Wonder Man lifted compared to Superman or Thor? Yet many would argue he could hold his own with Thor in a slugfest, or Hulk, or many with solid high end lifting feats... How much has Thing lifted compared to Savage Hulk? Never nearly as much, right? And he loses, but doesn't lose from a single punch.)
And ftr, I think Superman wins against Goku here...
No that'd be for that Gotenks striking feat.
That would be because usually either they have strength not extremely far from Superman's own. For instance, are you talking about this Wonder Man?;
Don't know much about him but this alone seems like he's in that category. And Ben? He's far stronger than people give him credit for.;
Anyhow, the comparable characters are either not far off the others strength bracket via feats or have fought them before or others on that level. Like Thing fighting Hulk at times. The reason DB is questioned more is because their fans are always exagerating every feat they can for the sole reason of overpowering Marvel/DC high tiers.
Edit: Bigger than I thought they'd be...
