Maul Brothers vs. Bane

Started by DARTH POWER18 pages

Originally posted by Arhael
[B]

No, it's totally unreasonable. Sidious was in no hurry to kill Yoda. Sidious was in no hurry to kill Luke in DE on both occasions, then he was in no hurry to unleash a Force Storm. Even when Windu put him on his ass, he was in no hurry to attack him with lightning. It is even more unreasonable, when we know that Official website instead of saying that Sidious went easy on them says: "Fueled by the dark side, Sidious is transformed into an agile, whirlwind of destruction".
It is even more unreasonable, when Filoni himself instead of saying that Sidious went easy on Opress says: "He puts up a better fight than the Jedi Council did"./B]

👆

I'm gonna keep quoting this until people get it.

Add to this his Laughing his ass off whilst in combat against Yoda, to which no one here has given a reasonable explanation as to how that means nothing but when he does so against the brothers it for some reason means he's toying around and holding back.

Originally posted by Arhael
[B]
I couldn't make sense out of this statement. Which legs were inferior? New ones or old?

/B]

He's implying the old legs are inferior in an attempt to make Sidious's Saber performance over the brothers look superior to Kenobi's.

I disagree,I saw no struggle in Sidious.
In the brothers,yes,very....
The saber lock scene looked like he was laughing more than struggling.
From my p.o.v. Sidious kicked their asses.
And laughing while he was doing it.

Now the brothers vs Bane....the win goes to Bane
Maul was trained as a weapon.. a tool. nothing more...
his knowledge was limited.

he proved himself to be a formidable opponent and threat to get Sidious' attention.
My question is Maul sensed Sidious as a disturbance at first and then realised it was his master.
Why didn't Obi Wan sense this disturbance?

I know maul was a Sith Lord (apprentice)
What I'm saying is Sidious NEVER trained Maul to take his place.
he only trained maul in the lower ranks.
He taught Maul,but he didn't teach Maul everything.

I don't believe that either Darth Power.
he wasn't toying with them to me,either.
he was laughing while he dueled Yoda, too.

I take it as he was taunting and using Dun Moch against both the brothers and Yoda.
To me it's a technique of Dun Moch.
To me,out of everything I saw it was Dun Moch 101.

Originally posted by juyomaster34

The saber lock scene looked like he was laughing more than struggling.

Nah there was no laughing in that final fight until he disarmed Maul and wasted no time to Force TK him.

Maul definitely put up a good fight in that last one.

Ok a sarcastic grin... lol.
Maul did put a fight.
I wonder what he meant by "other uses"?
Will we see Dooku vs Maul for the title of Apprentice?

Or will we see Maul as some kind of test or experiment?

Originally posted by juyomaster34
Ok a sarcastic grin... lol.
Maul did put a fight.
I wonder what he meant by "other uses"?
Will we see Dooku vs Maul for the title of Apprentice?

Or will we see Maul as some kind of test or experiment?


The question of apprenticeship has been answered during the duel; no longer an option.

Though Sidious may use Maul to further his agenda by using him as an assassin or some other purpose.

It remains to be seen that what Maul will plan after the fall of his brother.

Originally posted by juyomaster34
Ok a sarcastic grin... lol.
Maul did put a fight.
I wonder what he meant by "other uses"?
Will we see Dooku vs Maul for the title of Apprentice?

Or will we see Maul as some kind of test or experiment?

If you freeze at the moment the Saber lock starts, Maul has Sidious on his knees, and Sidious is clearly struggling to overpower him.

I'm not sure what Sidious wants to do with him. But Maul will still want to prove himself a more worthy apprentice than Dooku (not knowing that Sidious really wants Anakin).

So I'm certain we will get a confrontation between Maul and Dooku.

we got Sidious vs the brothers.
I'm hoping we get Maul vs Dooku.

To S W legend
you're right it has been decided, but Maul's gonna take this personally,
He wants the Sith Pretender and he wants his spot back.
If Sidious hasn't damaged Maul too badly,we might see this fight.

And for the record I agree with you and Darth Power.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Your putting the CW Mini on the same level of canonicity as AOTC and ESB? Are you kidding me?

Go to the offiicial SW Website and find me even one reference to the Cw Mini. It has all been erased. HAHAHAHa (evil laugh).

No. No I'm not.

Only if you go to the official SW website and find me one reference to Jacen Solo. Has Jacen been erased if you can't?

Originally posted by Arhael
If there was pain at all? Are you serious? Drop yourself on your back and find out, if it is painful. Then consider how much faster they flew into that window. Not many Sith can ignore pain, even less Sith can draw on it. And concussion effect is not pain, it makes the world spin around you.

I'm not a superhuman alien wearing battlearmor. There is absolutely no indication that they were dazed at all. Get your head out of your ass.

Originally posted by Arhael
It would. Kill, slay, defeat completely and render useless are some of the synonyms of destroy. In any case, the destruction power, which is defined in game, makes bodies fly away and they are left intact. No point to continue arguing it.

Whatever. I don't even care about this point anymore. The fact is that people can disintegrate and vaporise opponents with their Force attacks no matter how much you ***** about it. Its canon. Deal with it.

Originally posted by Arhael
Blitzing 3 Jedi is not evidence, it is another fight, it is impossible to establish where Sidious moved faster, so pointless bringing up this feat.

Other than that I saw points like he let them free at beginning, he let Maul mourn, he didn’t want to kill Maul and he was laughing. Do you really consider any of that “evidence”? To me it seems as grasping at straws.

In contrary he heavily utilized acrobatics – it is speed demonstration itself.

He utilized kicks – it implies that he used every skill available to get advantage during fight. Even when he fought Opress alone, lightsaber didn’t pass through his defense, kicks was what penetrated Opress’ defense and allowed him to strike him down. In other words he defeated Opress through demonstration of superior skill by exposing the same weakness in unarmed combat as Kenobi and Maul, not speed.

To kill Opress he Force blasted Maul. If as you say he could fight faster, why would he need to take Maul out of equation?

Sorry but theory of Sidious not using full speed is rather weak.

Why do you not consider that evidence? Its a clear indication that Sidious was going easy on them. Which is supported by the various statements Filoni has made about how Sidious 'never wavered from his position of superiority' and calling the fight an ass-kicking and the novels descriptions of Sidious managing to increase his speed halfway through the fight.

No, it isn't. 😬

No, it doesn't. 😬 How does it imply that? About 10 seconds before he kills him Sidious is playfully dancing around his lightsaber without his own even being activated. It's obvious that Savage's skills are far below Sidious and that he stands no chance 1-on-1. If he was utilising every skill he would have just dominated him with the Force, which he showed he can do.

So he could take his time with Opress without Maul interfering? To render Maul helpless and forced to watch as he kills his brother? Sidious is a sadistic guy, both are in-character.

Don't you think you're the one assuming that Sidious was fighting at his full speed? That is an assumption as well. The difference is that we actually have evidence that Sidious was not going all out on the brothers whereas all of yours and DP's evidence is nothing but 'he didn't outspeed him so therefore he couldn't of' and twisting statements to fail to support your argument.

Originally posted by Arhael
Concentration can decrease as well, after killing Opress there was a cooling off period. And no, it does not support your argument because text doesn’t mention speed during fight with both brothers. It mentions though that Sidious was using every sleep in their defense for counterattack. And again the fact that he needed to Force blast Maul and then concussion Opress with kicks in order to kill him goes in accord to your theory. Such effort would not be required, if he could simply blitz Opress, while fending off Maul.

If he didn’t use full speed against Maul alone (which I don’t believe), it could be because fighting Maul alone requires less effort than both brothers combined.

None of this is mentioned in the text. If this was the case then his speed would have been increasing in the first half of the duel as well, yet that's not mentioned as you said. Also, Sidious didn't need to 'steadily deepen his concentration' in his fight with the Jedi. In fact, has someone getting faster as a result of deeper concentration ever actually happened, or have you just made this entire theory up without anything to support it?

Originally posted by Arhael
Doesn’t mean that he didn’t use anger. And relishing fight, also, boosts performance as Windu example suggests.

Yes it does. If he's enjoying himself he can't be angry at the same time. And thats with a specific technique. And Sidious gets less pleased in his fight with Maul, not more.

Originally posted by Arhael
Because there is no single example where boost of power would boost speed. Anakin with his far superior power and rage boost couldn’t blitz Kenobi. Luke with his rage boost battered Vader’s defenses through superior strength, not speed and in book Vader at that moment sees it as Force gives Luke equivalent of skill, nothing about speed. And of course the fact that Force users can’t blitz skilled non-sensitive combatants like Mandalorians and Yuuzhan Vong. And finally, Dooku scores a hit on Yoda not because of superior speed but simply because Yoda was distracted by saving Whirry with TK. But of course you gonna ignore all these evidence and just stick to your opinion no matter what.

'It had been many years since Farfalla had fought while empowered by Worror's battle meditation. He had forgotten how much quicker and stronger the Ithorian's amazing talent made him feel. The Force flowed through him with greater power, filling him with its might. Yet even with their enhanced abilities, he wondered if they would survive the coming battle.'

'Bane never stopped, his momentum carrying him straight toward Farfalla. The Jedi Master had a moment to register the strange armor coat of hard, shiny shells he wore beneath his clothes. Then he, too, leapt to the side to avoid being crushed, surviving only because his reflexes were heightened by Worror's power.'

And no, the text specifically says Dooku's speed was enhanced. Get over it.

Also what the **** was that about Mandalorians? Are you suggesting that Force speed.... doesn't even exist? Are you high? They ****ing well can blitz those people, its just that those caliber of combatants also have incredibly fast reflexes and speed.

Originally posted by Arhael
They are. In AotC Yoda clearly struggles to stop that pillar flailing his hands with straining face and when he lets it go, he breathes out. And starfighter is around the same weight as that pillar, if not heavier. How do you know that he is greatly enfeebled? Throughout prequel he doesn’t do much anyway to keep himself in shape. 20 years is nothing comparing to 900 years he’s already lived.

And even, if he is enfeebled, it does not decrease TK potency. Luke out of practice still moved black hole, his smaller reserves was the only problem, not TK strength.

Thats subjective. He could just have trouble concentrating after his duel, he could have breathed out of relief. And it was after Yoda had engaged in a duel with Dooku, so he was likely worn out, particularly since his Ataru tires the user out quickly. And after those 20 years he is only 2 years away from dying of old age. I don't think I need to say anything else.

Yoda's words in the Jedi Path indicate otherwise. When discussing an exercise in lifting large rocks Yoda says 'Only 5 can I lift, since I've turned 700.'

Originally posted by Nephthys
No. No I'm not.

Only if you go to the official SW website and find me one reference to Jacen Solo. Has Jacen been erased if you can't?

No the only references are to "Lucas's world" of SW. Which is the films and the TCW. But which apparently doesn't include the CW Mini anymore.

Even though the EU world is considered a different world by Lucas, the EU still takes Lucas's vision as the highest form of canon and the source material for the rest of the EU.

That doesn't render the EU non-canon though. Nor the CW mini.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That doesn't render the EU non-canon though. Nor the CW mini.

Was just talking about "Level" of canonicity.

Well yes, I know the movies and cartoon are higher levels of canon than the rest, including the mini. Until they contradict though, its still canon.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That doesn't render the EU non-canon though. Nor the CW mini.

He is still butthurt about losing the argument pertaining to Yoda's power-progression through the Clone Wars, and he despises Genndy's epic as being a part of general Star Wars Canon. 😆

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
He never outduels Maul with any kind of ease.

What are you talking about? He clearly does... He was fighting both, Savage and Maul, and never did he exert himself. If he would've fought only against Maul, instead of both of them, he would've ended the duel much faster and much more easily. The whole point of this scene is to demonstrate Sidious' mastery of the Force, skill with a lightsaber and obvious superiority over both of them. If by saying that he never outduels Maul with ease you're saying Maul would give Sidious a hard time, you couldn't possibly be more wrong.

Which was the only time he outduelled Maul. And you can clearly see his struggle there. In fact that Saber lock began with Sidious on his knees. Sidious clearly struggled to win that last fight.

Yeah, Sidious' big "struggle" that lasted about two seconds before he completely overwhelmed Maul and left him on the floor begging for mercy.

What's with the time frame? Mace defeated Sidious in a minute. So what? You going to claim there was no competition there?

I believe that in some cases time frame works as an indicator as to how easy or how difficult the fight was for the fighters. Note that I said in some cases, and imho this is one of these cases. Think about it this way: five minutes is all it took for Sidious to identify weaknesses in both of his opponents and use them to his advantage in order to defeat both of them. Five minutes is all it took to kill two considerably powerful warriors during combat. Five minutes is all it took because he is the superior fighter.

In a circumstance like the one portrayed in TCW on this fight, time frame does work as an indicator. If it would've been a different circumstance, for instance, if Jedi 1 defeated Sith 2 in less than two minutes because Jedi 1 simply Force-pushed Sith 2 and knocked him out unconscious even when it seemed Sith 2 had the upper hand, then obviously time frame is irrelevant in terms of who is the superior fighter.

Mace's case with Sidious was completely different thanks to Shatterpoint and Vapaad.

And Sidious resorted to knocking Maul out with the Force so he could stomp Opress in a one on one. Does that mean he was beating them both together? Yes. But he never outclassed Maul in Sabers.

Are you actually implying Maul is close to Sidious in terms of skill with a lightsaber? 😬

From the video, it looked like Sidious was not exerting himself at all. He casually dodged sabers, and utterly tooled them. I don't see where this debate is coming from.

Everybody seems to agree except for him.

Originally posted by Pwned
From the video, it looked like Sidious was not exerting himself at all. He casually dodged sabers, and utterly tooled them. I don't see where this debate is coming from.

Well, because Savage managed to get a hit in on Sidious while Sidious had his attention on Maul, waving his saber at him, and smiling all maniacally. And because Sidious gasped for air after putting Savage on his ass with a kick. I think it's pretty obvious that they were overpowering him.

Hell, Maul by himself is almost equal to Sidious in sabers, because while in a state of rage, he managed to last about 20 seconds against Sidious, who wasn't even trying to kill him.

And him.

How can you possibly say they were overpowering him? The whole fvcking point of the scene was to demonstrate Sidious' superiority over both of them.

Did I not provide enough evidents for you?