Voldemort vs. Ganondorf (Twilight Princess)

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
That's cool, since that's the part of the book that mentions Ganon being shot with demi-gods and laughing them off. 🙂

So you have no point? You claimed it was different before he got there. Nope.

AK doesn't work when the target has resistance, Ganon has resistance, AK doesn't work. Thread sorted out right there.

The power to turn people into spirits and into monsters was due to his involvement.

Dorf has never resisted anything outside force like attacks so there is nothing to really compare here. You need to prove a kill curse won't work when he has never resisted anything such as this kind of magic before.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Let's put it this way. We know AK can be blocked by stronger magic such as PI and love shields. Tom's greatest magical feat is taking down the hogwarts shield. That is the extent of his power as movie version wands aren't weaker for non chosen users, just harder to control (remember when harry did the fire trick). A similar feat is midna taking out the hyrule castle shield. Similar spells with similar results. When Tom destroyed the barrier, it almost broke his wand, yet G was able to take midna's attack head on and come out on top.

Logically, Ganondorf> Voldemort

Originally posted by quanchi112
Demi gods is just hyperbole and doesn't carry any legitimate weight in a debate.

The power to turn people into spirits and into monsters was due to his involvement.

Dorf has never resisted anything outside force like attacks so there is nothing to really compare here. You need to prove a kill curse won't work when he has never resisted anything such as this kind of magic before.

Prove that.

Ganondorf has resisted death and magic more powerful than AK. AK doesn't work. Simple.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Q: What would happen if Tom tried to fire an AK through the magical barrier that covered Hogwarts?
All I heard was "did not actually die".

1) "target Dorf's 'Holy' weakness (so not just physical durability, its great inner magic resistance too)". Its not durability. Its him non-physically resisting powerful magic that hits his vulnerable element. Dorf resists effects of magic above AK.

2) Lol not healing further proves that it has nothing to do with physical wounds but the fatality itself. Im stating it will do what we've seen = not no-limits. AK's a death curse with limits defined by what its done; caused human fatality. This TF ability limit's are also defined by what its done; resisted human fatality.

3) I need to prove that Dorf, Zelda and Link did not get their souls wrecked by Twilight when we see them in Twilight, souls not wrecked? Oh look, I just proved it.

4) "Besides being proven that powerful magic can block AK, its stated that AK needs a certain potency to kill a person showing us that its not a 'kill all regardless' spell. Its limits are defined by the caster."

Inner magic resistance + human-fatality resistance + afflicting magic resistance = Ganondorf's resistance to low-fatality and non-physical magic.

Being blocked by powerful magic + potency defined by the casters power = The Limits of AK.

1) I disagree entirely. You are still under the assumption that greater physical force means more formidable attacks. If I tank a persons punch which is of greater force that doesn't mean I can survive if someone plugs my nose and mouth. Dorf has proven to be able to resist the effects of physical death by magic not instant death magic. He can tank force attacks but can be killed.

2) The strength of the human is the point. It kills spiders, humans but does not effect their physical body so the strength of the body is irrelevant. That's the point so you thinking a body's durability or strength is the determining factor is incorrect. Again, I've never said no limits it just kills Dorf. He has shown no magical resistance to anything other than force attacks.

3) Dorf's magic is what helped cause this along with the specific events which took place in Hyrule. We've seen active magic from the mirror and the Ms both effective against him. I just proved magic clearly works against Ganondorf used directly.

4) So now you are saying its limits are defined by the most skilled and dangerous wizard of the films ? Lol. Watch him up against the magical barrier to see how skilled and powerful he is. When is this stated in the films by the way ?

The Ak works when it hits its target save certain circumstances not available to Dorf here. Dorf cannot resist a kill curse which isn't a durability attack. No proof of him being able to resist purposeful magical attack since two have already worked on him before.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Ignoring their regional level powers I see. They're more powerful than Voldemort.

Prove that.

Ganondorf has resisted death and magic more powerful than AK. AK doesn't work. Simple.

No, they aren't but power level has nothing to do with his non durablility magical attacks.

Prove what ?

He has resisted physical death by magic. This is not physical death nor are his death resistance attacks limitless especially since he has hundred year old holes still in his body.

Ak works. No logical reason you can cite to say otherwise.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We don't know. The Ak is specific magic to kill a living being.
1) I disagree entirely. You are still under the assumption that greater physical force means more formidable attacks. If I tank a persons punch which is of greater force that doesn't mean I can survive if someone plugs my nose and mouth. Dorf has proven to be able to resist the effects of physical death by magic not instant death magic. He can tank force attacks but can be killed.
2) The strength of the human is the point. It kills spiders, humans but does not effect their physical body so the strength of the body is irrelevant. That's the point so you thinking a body's durability or strength is the determining factor is incorrect. Again, I've never said no limits it just kills Dorf. He has shown no magical resistance to anything other than force attacks.
3) Dorf's magic is what helped cause this along with the specific events which took place in Hyrule. We've seen active magic from the mirror and the Ms both effective against him. I just proved magic clearly works against Ganondorf used directly.
4) So now you are saying its limits are defined by the most skilled and dangerous wizard of the films ? Lol. Watch him up against the magical barrier to see how skilled and powerful he is. When is this stated in the films by the way ?
The Ak works when it hits its target save certain circumstances not available to Dorf here. Dorf cannot resist a kill curse which isn't a durability attack. No proof of him being able to resist purposeful magical attack since two have already worked on him before.

1) Again, its not physical damage I'm talking about. Its the powerful holy magic targeting his 'kill him with holy' traits. Its inner magical resistance, one which he laughed off.

2) Again, you're mentioning durability and strength. It only kills spiders and humans, and shown that less effort in it lowers the effects. Why not? AK's limits is human-fatality, which is the same level of which the TF saves him from.

3) ..lol are you talking about casting Twilight again? The TF resists the soul wrecking effects in all users. And I know you dont want to get into the MS/Mirror topic, and I know you know that BRF and something as powerful as the MS have nothing to do with the afflicting magic I'm talking about with Twilight.. nor have you actually countered this afflicting magic point.

4) Do you deny that powerful magic can block AK (like love did, and like the shield point you said you don't know of)? Of course a caster magics limits are defined by the caster, that always been HP lore 😐 Needing to be at a certain level to kill humans says just this.

Sooo AK always works when it properly lands? Yeah, not no-limits at all.

Inner magic + human-fatality + afflicting magic > blocked by magic + HP's level

Originally posted by BloodRain
So nothing to suggest that magical shields can block it too?

1) Again, its not physical damage I'm talking about. Its the powerful holy magic targeting his 'kill him with holy' traits. Its inner magical resistance, one which he laughed off.

2) Again, you're mentioning durability and strength. It only kills spiders and humans, and shown that less effort in it lowers the effects. Why not? AK's limits is human-fatality, which is the same level of which the TF saves him from.

3) ..lol are you talking about casting Twilight again? The TF resists the soul wrecking effects in all users. And I know you dont want to get into the MS/Mirror topic, and I know you know that BRF and something as powerful as the MS have nothing to do with the afflicting magic I'm talking about with Twilight.. nor have you actually countered this afflicting magic point.

4) Do you deny that powerful magic can block AK (like love did, and like the shield point you said you don't know of)? Of course a caster magics limits are defined by the caster, that always been HP lore 😐 Needing to be at a certain level to kill humans says just this.

Sooo AK [b]always works when it properly lands? Yeah, not no-limits at all.

Inner magic + human-fatality + afflicting magic > blocked by magic + HP's level [/B]

1) no, it's specific magic which dispels other magic. It worked. That simple.

2) strength and durability aren't an issue so you can't try to pigeonhole it as simply limited to these two. The strength or durability of the bodies is not an issue so its a moot point.

3) the Tf can protect an indirect affect or result of these magics but not resist direct attacks such as the Mirror or Ms. You can't use indirect attacks and pretend they are the same as direct magical attacks here. All direct attacks have worked.

4) I never denied powerful magic can block the Ak but I've always said it kills what it hits save magical resistance. The love shield can only work if someone else dies who clearly has the choice to step in front of the killing curse.

You said killing curse depends on the skill of the user. I contest that. If they are competent and it hits the target they die. They just have to mean it aka be competent.

Unless they have magical resistance to such a specific non durable attack.

Incorrect.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Why wouldn't the magical shields block it ?
1) no, it's specific magic which dispels other magic. It worked. That simple.
2) strength and durability aren't an issue so you can't try to pigeonhole it as simply limited to these two. The strength or durability of the bodies is not an issue so its a moot point.
3) the Tf can protect an indirect affect or result of these magics but not resist direct attacks such as the Mirror or Ms. You can't use indirect attacks and pretend they are the same as direct magical attacks here. All direct attacks have worked.
4) I never denied powerful magic can block the Ak but I've always said it kills what it hits save magical resistance. The love shield can only work if someone else dies who clearly has the choice to step in front of the killing curse.
You said killing curse depends on the skill of the user. I contest that. If they are competent and it hits the target they die. They just have to mean it aka be competent.
Unless they have magical resistance to such a specific non durable attack.
Incorrect.

1) Lol when did the Light Spirits have the ability to dispel Dorf's magic?

2) Strange.. its like I just questioned why you're mentioning strength and durability one post ago, yet you're still making a deal about it. Hmm. AK's limits is human-fatality, same level the TF saved Dorf from. Theres no reason to believe AK is above this without some sort of proof which there is none

3) So basically you want to cite a BFR sucking mirror and the verses most powerful anti-evil sword as working against him, but completely ignore the fact that the afflicting magic wont touch him. Is AK a BFR spell? No? Not comparable. Is AK a goddess blessed holy anti-evil spell? No? Not comparable? Is AK afflicting magic in how it acts? Yes? Its comparable to Twilights effects which the TF resisted.

4) Never denied magic can block it, that it wont kill those with magic resistance? Yeah I'm going to have to remember this line..

Competence accounts for half of a spell here, as we seen the casters potency accounts for the other half of the oomph. Being competent with little power would give usable weak spells.

Nah, all legit.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Would they?

1) Lol when did the Light Spirits have the ability to dispel Dorf's magic?

2) Strange.. its like I just questioned why you're mentioning strength and durability one post ago, yet you're still making a deal about it. Hmm. AK's limits is human-fatality, same level the TF saved Dorf from. Theres no reason to believe AK is above this without some sort of proof which there is none

3) So basically you want to cite a BFR sucking mirror and the verses most powerful anti-evil sword as working against him, but completely ignore the fact that the [b]afflicting magic wont touch him. Is AK a BFR spell? No? Not comparable. Is AK a goddess blessed holy anti-evil spell? No? Not comparable? Is AK afflicting magic in how it acts? Yes? Its comparable to Twilights effects which the TF resisted.

4) Never denied magic can block it, that it wont kill those with magic resistance? Yeah I'm going to have to remember this line..

Competence accounts for half of a spell here, as we seen the casters potency accounts for the other half of the oomph. Being competent with little power would give usable weak spells.

Nah, all legit. [/B]

1). Dorf was not directly attacked and aided in the magic itself.

2). Wrong. You can't place a durability limit over a magical death curse which has nothing to do with strength of body. Nothing.

3). I am citing specific magic performing its specific magic. I never said it was the same I said purposeful magic works when directly cast on him or used. Ms and mirror both. No, it isn't comparable and Dorf was behind it. Never directly used on him. This is just absurd.

4). Dorf does not have magical specific resistance just durability force attacks within reason.

No, if someone competently works the spell it works. It either does or doesn't there is no strength or varying degrees. A spell is either performed correctly or isn't.

Ak or Crucio win.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If I had to venture a guess I'd say so.
1). Dorf was not directly attacked and aided in the magic itself.
2). Wrong. You can't place a durability limit over a magical death curse which has nothing to do with strength of body. Nothing.
3). I am citing specific magic performing its specific magic. I never said it was the same I said purposeful magic works when directly cast on him or used. Ms and mirror both. No, it isn't comparable and Dorf was behind it. Never directly used on him. This is just absurd.
4). Dorf does not have magical specific resistance just durability force attacks within reason.
No, if someone competently works the spell it works. It either does or doesn't there is no strength or varying degrees. A spell is either performed correctly or isn't.
Ak or Crucio win.

1) He was not directly attacked when the Light Arrows struck him dozens of times? 😕

2) I can place a limit on something which shows feats up to a limit, or else we get no-limits. You can't say the spell does more than what it does. And again, again... again you keep bringing up 'strength of the body'. No ones talking about that brah.

3) Cool, and we're back to 'specific' things which are not the 'specific' AK, so a meaningless without a comparison of the 'specifics'. Lol so the TF has never protected the three? What game were you playing?

4) *gasp* was my point so thinly veiled that you saw through it? 😛 How long will you blindly deny his magical resistance? Are we forgetting that it was only after his magical resistances were brought to the thread that you suddenly changed 'any magical resistance' to 'specific magical resistance'?

This is you stating that the strength of a wizard does not influence the potency of the spells, correct?

'No Dorf wins!' ...simple statements aren't much of an argument now are they?

Originally posted by quanchi112
I disagree but like I said what does the word demi god do ? What does it mean to you ?

No, they aren't but power level has nothing to do with his non durablility magical attacks.

Prove what ?

He has resisted physical death by magic. This is not physical death nor are his death resistance attacks limitless especially since he has hundred year old holes still in his body.

Ak works. No logical reason you can cite to say otherwise.

Prove that the Twilight Realm was 'allied' to Ganon and thus didn't try to change him.

There are several logical reasons to discount AK.
1. Ganon has resisted significantly more powerful magic routinely.
Fused Shadows didn't scratch him.
He laughed at the light arrows.
The Twilight Realm didn't change him.
2. Ganon cannot die without to ToP being overcome, and the ToP is too far above AK for AK to stand a chance at doing this.
3. Ganon has shown that things that should kill a mortal man do not so much as inconvenience him. Stabbed through the chest? No big deal.

AK lacks the feats to deal with his immense resistance, plain and simple.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Ah, excellent.

1) He was not directly attacked when the Light Arrows struck him dozens of times? 😕

2) I can place a limit on something which shows feats up to a limit, or else we get no-limits. You can't say the spell does more than what it does. And again, again... again you keep bringing up 'strength of the body'. No ones talking about that brah.

3) Cool, and we're back to 'specific' things which are not the 'specific' AK, so a meaningless without a comparison of the 'specifics'. Lol so the TF has never protected the three? What game were you playing?

4) *gasp* was my point so thinly veiled that you saw through it? 😛 How long will you blindly deny his magical resistance? Are we forgetting that it was only after his magical resistances were brought to the thread that you suddenly changed 'any magical resistance' to 'specific magical resistance'?

This is you stating that the strength of a wizard does not influence the potency of the spells, correct?

'No Dorf wins!' ...simple statements aren't much of an argument now are they?

1). Force attacks nothing more.

2). There aren't no limits just a clear magical resistance since it isn't a durability attack. I am not saying anything more than what we've seen. You want to keep ignoring it.

3). That was an indirect magical effect created by Dorfs power so why would it affect him if he supplied the power itself. Silly.

4). He has force magical resistance and can resist death to a certain point.

Not with regards to the kill curse or Crucio one. Force attacks sure. Depends on the spell.

Dorf loses. Voldemort wins. 😄

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Light arrows destroy evil. That is not just a 'durability' attack. They actually destroy an intangible force, usually completely destroying the target as a result. Ganon takes several and [b]laughs.

Prove that the Twilight Realm was 'allied' to Ganon and thus didn't try to change him.

There are several logical reasons to discount AK.
1. Ganon has resisted significantly more powerful magic routinely.
Fused Shadows didn't scratch him.
He laughed at the light arrows.
The Twilight Realm didn't change him.
2. Ganon cannot die without to ToP being overcome, and the ToP is too far above AK for AK to stand a chance at doing this.
3. Ganon has shown that things that should kill a mortal man do not so much as inconvenience him. Stabbed through the chest? No big deal.

AK lacks the feats to deal with his immense resistance, plain and simple. [/B]

We see it. We see this occurs through the partnership of Zant and Dorf. We don't see anyone turn into beasts prior to this.

1. Apples to oranges. Durability and non durability attacks aren't the same thing.
Light arrows hurt him. He defeated Midna. We don't know if she damaged him but then fell. Speculation.
2. False. No limits fallacy. If his body is completely destroyed he dies. Ak kills him. Simple.
3. False. We see his magic resisting the effects but the hole did not disappear. It was something but he overcame it but still did not heal from the damage or the hole.

Ak kills someone without magical resistance. Simple. Ms dispelled his magic. Mirror transported him.

No, they are force attacks.

We see it.

1. You're off topic, those are all magical attacks with magical elements. They destroy evil, polymorph, reduce someone to a soul, or cause them to explode. Ganon resisted them all.
2. Lol. No, this is true, Ganondorf cannot be killed without turning off the ToP or it will not allow him to die. AK cannot do this. AK cannot destroy his body either, so that argument is as pointless as it is impossible for you to prove.
3. The hole was not damage or a wound that he needed to heal from, it literally had no effect on him. The fact that it does not kill him shows that AK cannot either.

AK kills people without magic resistance, Ganon has magic resistance. AK cannot kill Ganon.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Still speculation.
1). Force attacks nothing more.
2). There aren't no limits just a clear magical resistance since it isn't a durability attack. I am not saying anything more than what we've seen. You want to keep ignoring it.
3). That was an indirect magical effect created by Dorfs power so why would it affect him if he supplied the power itself. Silly.
4). He has force magical resistance and can resist death to a certain point.
Not with regards to the kill curse or Crucio one. Force attacks sure. Depends on the spell.
Dorf loses. Voldemort wins. 😄

1) Prove it? Prove the sacred light that hits his weakness, like the MS, was purely fore only.

2) Exactly, it has limits. And we get limits from what we've seen it do. And what we've seen is it killing things up to human fatality. Now what has resisted human-level fatality? The Triforce.

3) So that's a no, you cant deny that the Triforce protects the users and would like a misdirection instead?

4) Stating Dorf is able to resit death but refusing that it will help him against AK at all. Interesting stance.

So every single spell apart from the ones you're debating for? Curios.

Isn't that what you've been debating for?

Originally posted by BloodRain
And you support that side, yeah.

1) Prove it? Prove the sacred light that hits his weakness, like the MS, was purely fore only.

2) Exactly, it has limits. And we get limits [b]from what we've seen it do. And what we've seen is it killing things up to human fatality. Now what has resisted human-level fatality? The Triforce.

3) So that's a no, you cant deny that the Triforce protects the users and would like a misdirection instead?

4) Stating Dorf is able to resit death but refusing that it will help him against AK at all. Interesting stance.

So every single spell apart from the ones you're debating for? Curios.

Isn't that what you've been debating for? [/B]

1). The burden is on you. You are claiming they weren't force attacks when they clearly were. Ms dispels magic. That isn't a weakness that is just something that works.

2). We've seen it resist durability attacks but unable to heal from the damage. We have not seen it resist the mirror or the Ms.

3). We see Link actively turned into a wolf by that Zant weapon.
😂

4). He is able to resist durability death not instant magical curse death. Apples and oranges.

Crucio and Ak are t of varying degrees. Either they work or don't.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
That's funny, they're stated to destroy evil.
No, we don't. We see Ganon sent there, and we know that the Twilight effects non-Twili. Zant and his people were Twili, they were not effected by the Twilight, Ganondorf simply resisted it. Midna spells this out for us.

1. You're off topic, those are all magical attacks with magical elements. They destroy evil, polymorph, reduce someone to a soul, or cause them to explode. Ganon resisted them all.
2. Lol. No, this is true, Ganondorf cannot be killed without turning off the ToP or it will not allow him to die. AK cannot do this. AK cannot destroy his body either, so that argument is as pointless as it is impossible for you to prove.
3. The hole was not damage or a wound that he needed to heal from, it literally had no effect on him. The fact that it does not kill him shows that AK cannot either.

AK kills people without magic resistance, Ganon has magic resistance. AK cannot kill Ganon.

We don't see it ever transform anyone prior to Dorf's magic aiding it. You have no proof like always. Just trying to make up feats.

1. No, they don't. They hurt him. They Didnt destroy him. Hyperbole. He can resist force attacks. Never said he could not.

2. No limits fallacy. We see him killed. He can be killed. His body can be destroyed as well. His force blasts can destroy his body or the fire snake can do so. Ak kills him.

3. The magic staved off the effects but he did not show the ability to heal from it. It just shows he can survive force or damage to his body within reason not the Ak.

Dorf does not have any magical resistance here either. Dorf can't resist the mirror or Ms. Ak kills him.

You're really good at being wrong. "The light to destroy evil."

Midna straight up tells us the effects of Twilight. You're trying to ignore feats, as always.

We never see Ganon killed. The only time we ever see him put down is because of the Master Sword.

Choosing not to heal a hole that doesn't effect him does not equate to him not being able to. He's known to be able to heal. Even so, Voldemort has no spells that can damage a body as durable and magically resistant as Ganons.

Ganondorf resists the fused shadows, twilight realm, light arrows, and refuses to die. Any one of those on his own is enough as AK has never worked on someone with any resistance, Ganon has resistance, AK fails, and Voldemort can do nothing to Ganondorf.

Provide proof, stop lowballing and trying to ignore feats.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You're really good at being wrong. "The light to [b]destroy evil."

Midna straight up tells us the effects of Twilight. You're trying to ignore feats, as always.

We never see Ganon killed. The only time we ever see him put down is because of the Master Sword.

Choosing not to heal a hole that doesn't effect him does not equate to him not being able to. He's known to be able to heal. Even so, Voldemort has no spells that can damage a body as durable and magically resistant as Ganons.

Ganondorf resists the fused shadows, twilight realm, light arrows, and refuses to die. Any one of those on his own is enough as AK has never worked on someone with any resistance, Ganon has resistance, AK fails, and Voldemort can do nothing to Ganondorf.

Provide proof, stop lowballing and trying to ignore feats. [/B]

No examples of the light destroying any evil beings here.

Midna tells us what happens after Dorf and Zant got together.

We see him killed by the Ms. Also resurrected after simple bfr.

You have not proven he didn't choose to heal. His battle wounds in beast mode also cost him. This is getting rather tiresome.

Voldemort destroyed a magical barrier which disintegrates human bodies. One all out rage blast and Dorf dies. Ak and he dies. Crucio and he begs for mercy.

He resists the fused shadows Midna. Ok. Twilight realm never transformed anyone prior to his involvement, prove it.

No, he has no specific magical resistance. Mirror, Ms, Nuff said.

I already have. Quit exaggerating and making things up.

No one says light destroys darkness, that's a stupid example. The light arrows are stated to destroy evil in HH and in every game they appear in.

AK has no showings of killing a protected being. 🙂

Midna tells us the rules of the Twilight Realm. Zant was only empowered by Ganon very recently, the rules of the Twilight Realm have always been the same.

Prove the Master Sword killed him.

It's a part of his power set, you can try to ignore that, but sucks to be you. He does it in OoT and across WW and aLttP timelines. Does Thor lose the ability to fly in issues in which he chooses to walk? Spoiler: No.

Ganon was hit by a castle buster and unscratched, he laughs in the face of Voldemort's magic.

The mirror is a door, AK is not a door. It never interacts with Ganon's resistance. The Master Sword is planetary level in power, AK is not planetary level in power.

AK cannot hurt him because he has resistance. Simple.