Originally posted by cdtm
Feats.Unless you believe Castle is > Bullseye in pure skill, since he beat him in h2h.
Bullseye's h2h skills are focused almost entirely on combating Daredevil and Elektra, he is uniquely qualified to combat those two, but his h2h skills don't transfer over to other characters nearly as well.
Overall Punisher is more skilled than Bullseye, also Punisher can get run over by an 18 wheeler and still get up and finish a fight.
Originally posted by cdtm
He's skilled, sure. Underrated skilled.I don't buy he's more skilled then the likes of DD, Elektra or DD, (Bullseye being closer to their level as a martial artist then Castle)
He's not more skilled than DD or Elektra, but he's more skilled than Bullseye... at fighting anyone who isn't DD or Elektra at least. If Bullseye trained to beat Frank with the same fanaticism as he uses for DD and Elektra, he'd probably beat him... but he doesn't so its irrelevant.
Originally posted by cdtmOff-topic, but 👆.
Why would I think Danny trading blows and avoiding hits against someone who Elektra couldn't even hit once, and who Logan got, as you say, "Overwhelmed" against (In a short time frame every encounter), is a good showing?*Shrugs* I'm easily impressed?
I like how you're certain Gorgon would have killed him, though. Not like Danny could have avoided the hit, or taken it in a non vital area, or even was setting Gorgon up for Daredevil (Considering he told Gorgon the attack was coming, meaning he was fully aware of Matt's actions at the time.)
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He's not more skilled than DD or Elektra, but he's more skilled than Bullseye... at fighting anyone who isn't DD or Elektra at least. If Bullseye trained to beat Frank with the same fanaticism as he uses for DD and Elektra, he'd probably beat him... but he doesn't so its irrelevant.
👆
Bullseye's basically a character designed to metagame Daredevil and Elektra. And even then, they'll win more often than not. If Bullseye were to fight Frank in H2H, I have no doubt that Castle would beat the shit out of him.
Originally posted by srankmissingnindumbest hyperbolic statement ever typed.
Dumbest post Ive ever read.If Lady Shiva is a mishandled jobber... then what exactly makes her more skilled than Elektra? A whole lot of nothing. Feat for feat she doesn`t stack up against Elektra. Clearly. Elektra beats Daredevil when they fight. Shiva loses to Batman. Elektra beats Taskmaster when they fight. Shiva loses to Prometheus. Spare me the list of excuses for why poor old mishandled Lady Shiva got jobbed out and counter with her actually doing something. Lady Shiva is all hype, and her hype has never been justified on panel. What makes Shiva more skilled than Elektra? That she is allegedly more skilled than Batman (someone who Elektra is also more skilled than...) but has never demonstrated it on panel... There is not a single concrete piece of evidence that Shiva is more skilled than Elektra, and thats all that matters in a debate.
I didn't say that was what she is. I said it happens to all characters at certain points in their history, especially lesser known characters.
Circumstances usually result in the antagonist losing in comics against heroes. Doesn't change the fact that shivas more skilled than bruce. I define skill in comics to be how much varying ma knowledge and styles a character has been displayed on panel to know and/or use. Im curious as to what your definition is and how you come to those conclusions using whatever standard you use to determine varying degrees of skill among characters from completely seperate comic universes. Care to explain?
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Other than Shiva, Cass's best win over a martial artist in DC is Nightwing, who stepped up his game and was able to stalemate her the last time they fought prior to the reboot.
And how she performs against Slade, and Batman...
Dick was getting pretty darn good at the end there, but Cass still has a better fight record.
Originally posted by cdtm
Feats.Unless you believe Castle is > Bullseye in pure skill, since he beat him in h2h.
Castle damage soak/toughness could possibly be just a good counter for Bullseye. Plus Castle being good in his own right.
Direct comparison feats which are mainly fights but not always are greater then isolated feats as they can just serve for the plot of the story.
IMO gauging fighting skill should be based off several things
1. Feats of pure skill (dodging, blocking, kicking, smoothness of technique, reacting, pressure points, etc.). This is best judged from a person with real MA experience.
2. Feats against known fighters. But those known fighters must have been already gauged from 1.
In no way can one compare a d.c character to a marvel one without 1.
Originally posted by h1a8
IMO gauging fighting skill should be based off several things1. Feats of pure skill (dodging, blocking, kicking, smoothness of technique, reacting, pressure points, etc.). This is best judged from a person with real MA experience.
2. Feats against known fighters. But those known fighters must have been already gauged from 1.
In no way can one compare a d.c character to a marvel one without 1.
Try using this on Storm Shadow and Snake Eyes. You'll find, Storm Shadow has a few examples of deflecting gun fire with his sword (Snake Eyes doesn't really have anything comparable), and stalemates pretty much any ninja in the Joe franchise, including Snake Eyes.
Yet, Snake Eyes is considered > Storm Shadow, both by the story narrative and by fans.
Originally posted by cdtm
Try using this on Storm Shadow and Snake Eyes. You'll find, Storm Shadow has a few examples of deflecting gun fire with his sword (Snake Eyes doesn't really have anything comparable), and stalemates pretty much any ninja in the Joe franchise, including Snake Eyes.Yet, Snake Eyes is considered > Storm Shadow, both by the story narrative and by fans.
Maybe those ninjas who he stalemated have comparable skill and can deflect bullets themselves.
The alternative you are proposing suggests that there is ZERO way to compare D.C. to Marvel fighters in skill.