Savage Hulk is an Avengers enemy. He's done what Nef has done with interest. WWh is a different beast. Don't see how Nef wins this. He gets overpowered and he sure as hell isn't koing this version of Hulk unless someone have some solid proof that he can. WWH was withstand Herald+ attacks in stride and was still fighting at 100%. Also, hahahahaha at Hulk fearing Nef...they threw a mutant at him with fear induced powers and it didn't do a thing to Hulk but piss him off. Good try though.
Originally posted by Eternal IdolHe lacks experience, intelligence, the healing factor and doesn't have dynamic strength to keep up with the Hulk.
Count Nefaria ftw.Could match Hulk's strength by amping if he wanted to go toe-to-toe, and if not, he's just too versatile.
Not much different than a Superman vs Hulk thread.
Nef's fight with The Avengers IS impressive, I'll admit.
But that doesn't explain why a lot of his fans (Around the web, not specifically on this board) think he's dominate characters like World War III Black Adam or even post crisis Superman. I've even seen some fans call him "Evil pre crisis Superman", and I'm only hoping they mean because he was created side by side with PC Superman, and not because he has PC Superman level feats.. He definitely does not, imo.
Does the fan loyalty come purely from his showings and love of the character, or is there some "Kirby love" thrown in there?
I could understand if it were partial Kirby loyalty, being a big New Gods fan myself..
Originally posted by quanchi112
He lacks experience, intelligence, the healing factor and doesn't have dynamic strength to keep up with the Hulk.
Experience and intelligence can only take you so far in an actual fight. Skill and physicality trump experience and intelligence. Nefaria can match Hulk in strength and durability. When you take his powers into account, it's like pitting someone against someone in car and armed with a gun.
Hulk can heal as many times as he'd like, but he'd only get his ass kicked again and again. Still a win for Nefaria.
Originally posted by Eternal IdolHulk has all of these in his favor. Nefaria wasn't experienced or a highly trained fighter. No, he can't match someone with dynamic strength in the strength category.
Experience and intelligence can only take you so far in an actual fight. Skill and physicality trump experience and intelligence. Nefaria can match Hulk in strength and durability. When you take his powers into account, it's like pitting someone against someone in car and armed with a gun.Hulk can heal as many times as he'd like, but he'd only get his ass kicked again and again. Still a win for Nefaria.
Based on what ? Hulk has too many advantages to lose here.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Hulk has all of these in his favor. Nefaria wasn't experienced or a highly trained fighter. No, he can't match someone with dynamic strength in the strength category.Based on what ? Hulk has too many advantages to lose here.
Hulk has experience, but don't try to tell me he is a highly trained fighter as if he were Captain America, Wolverine, or Daredevil. Hulk is first and foremost, a brawler.
What advantages? He's really strong and can get stronger? He can heal?
As far as I'm aware, Nefaria is pretty goddamned strong himself, and extremely durable to the point where there isn't any need to heal, and if he needed to, he could anyhow.
On top of that, he can fly, shoot bolts of energy, and even create ionic energy constructs.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Experience and intelligence can only take you so far in an actual fight. Skill and physicality trump experience and intelligence. Nefaria can match Hulk in strength and durability. When you take his powers into account, it's like pitting someone against someone in car and armed with a gun.Hulk can heal as many times as he'd like, but he'd only get his ass kicked again and again. Still a win for Nefaria.
Lol at this. Who would win, Surfer or Doomsday?
Originally posted by Eternal IdolHe's trained in the art of brawling through experience. I never said he had skill even close to Thor/Cap.
Hulk has experience, but don't try to tell me he is a highly trained fighter as if he were Captain America, Wolverine, or Daredevil. Hulk is first and foremost, a brawler.What advantages? He's really strong and can get stronger? He can heal?
As far as I'm aware, Nefaria is pretty goddamned strong himself, and extremely durable to the point where there isn't any need to heal, and if he needed to, he could anyhow.
On top of that, he can fly, shoot bolts of energy, and even create ionic energy constructs.
Nefaria doesn't have dynamic strength. Sorry. Hulk gets a hold of him and smashes him. It's worked very well for him his whole career.
Originally posted by carver9
Lol at this. Who would win, Surfer or Doomsday?
Surfer, and easily if he wasn't such a pacifist.
Originally posted by quanchi112
He's trained in the art of brawling through experience. I never said he had skill even close to Thor/Cap.Nefaria doesn't have dynamic strength. Sorry. Hulk gets a hold of him and smashes him. It's worked very well for him his whole career.
So then his brawling experience is a moot point since he's still just a brawler, and not an elite fighter... Gotcha.
How did that "get a hold of him and smashes him" thing work against a depowered Juggernaut during World War Hulk vs X-Men? 'Cause it sure looked to me like Juggernaut had the upperhand until he was distracted by Xavier and tripped by Hulk.
Nefaria might as well be cosmic Classic Juggernaut, complete with flight and energy projection.
Originally posted by Eternal IdolYou can have a huge edge in brawling experience. LOL. Huge edge to Hulk.
Surfer, and easily if he wasn't such a pacifist.So then his brawling experience is a moot point since he's still just a brawler, and not an elite fighter... Gotcha.
How did that "get a hold of him and smashes him" thing work against a depowered Juggernaut during World War Hulk vs X-Men? 'Cause it sure looked to me like Juggernaut had the upperhand until he was distracted by Xavier and tripped by Hulk.
Nefaria might as well be cosmic Classic Juggernaut, complete with flight and energy projection.
Hulk beat him up once. The second time he got a hold of him he easily bfr'fd him. 2 wins against one guy in the same story. Impressive.
Nef loses to Juggs as well. The poor guy can't catch A BREAK.
Originally posted by quanchi112
You can have a huge edge in brawling experience. LOL. Huge edge to Hulk.Hulk beat him up once. The second time he got a hold of him he easily bfr'fd him. 2 wins against one guy in the same story. Impressive.
Nef loses to Juggs as well. The poor guy can't catch A BREAK.
Again, you're acting like this is an elite fighter against a novice. It's not. Nefaria's no elite fighter either, but he knows enough to negate any slight skill advantage Hulk would have.
WWH beat Rhino-Juggernaut. WOW.
And then he got his ass kicked by a partially restored Juggernaut before Xavier distracted him and allowed Hulk the opportunity to trip and shove him aside before getting as far away from there as possible. Very impressive indeed.
Originally posted by Eternal Idolnefaria doesnt have infinite momentum or the inertia cancelling spell or jug's limitless damage soak. that was the second time hulk exploited the way marko's powers function to beat him. he is a better fighter and cain is no slouch either.
Surfer, and easily if he wasn't such a pacifist.So then his brawling experience is a moot point since he's still just a brawler, and not an elite fighter... Gotcha.
How did that "get a hold of him and smashes him" thing work against a depowered Juggernaut during World War Hulk vs X-Men? 'Cause it sure looked to me like Juggernaut had the upperhand until he was distracted by Xavier and tripped by Hulk.
Nefaria might as well be cosmic Classic Juggernaut, complete with flight and energy projection.
Originally posted by 753
nefaria doesnt have infinite momentum or the inertia cancelling spell or jug's limitless damage soak. that was the second time hulk exploited the way marko's powers function to beat him. he is a better fighter and cain is no slouch either.
Nefaria wouldn't need the inertia cancelling or the damage soak, as he's plenty strong and his invulnerability is among the best on Marvel Earth.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Surfer, and easily if he wasn't such a pacifist.So then his brawling experience is a moot point since he's still just a brawler, and not an elite fighter... Gotcha.
How did that "get a hold of him and smashes him" thing work against a depowered Juggernaut during World War Hulk vs X-Men? 'Cause it sure looked to me like Juggernaut had the upperhand until he was distracted by Xavier and tripped by Hulk.
Nefaria might as well be cosmic Classic Juggernaut, complete with flight and energy projection.
Are you very familiar with the Hulk's history, and why it was possible for Nefaria to contend with the Savage Hulk? It's the same reason why he would not be able to contend with WW Hulk. Did you read WW Hulk? If so you will notice that he did not take long to ramp up in power as he did as the Savage Hulk. This was all explained during the Planet Hulk saga. If you didn't read that, perhaps you should, and you will realize why Nefaria wouldn't be able to contend with WW Hulk for long if he didn't have to hold back.
He could have done what he did in the Dark Dimension on Earth, but he didn't because of the innocent lives at stake. Nefaria would lose pretty badly here.
Okay doke, gathered up some of Nefaria's highlights from his first fight with the Avengers 165 and 166:
Here's where he goes at it with Wonder Man:
It's impressive, although I put WM below Iron Man personally.
And here's the tail end of Shellheads 1 vs 1, after he stops holding back and taps into overdrive: