Cass (Batgirl) vs Captain America

h1a8 is just trying to find a way to give Batgirl more wins, hence all this "holding back" crap he's trying to sell.

Steve. And I don't think it would be as close as some might think. *shrug*

Originally posted by Q99
Really, has anyone ever noticed a difference in performance between top-shelf martial artists trying to KO and trying to kill? Because I haven't.

Sometimes between 'disable without hurting' and 'ko/kill,' but someone at the high levels going all-out to KO is functionally very similar to going all-out to kill.

Maybe in Kirman's stories, there's a difference.. Invincible wasn't doing too well against Conquest until he was out for blood.

But there's not much difference in your average comic, no.

Anyways, I'm not buying into h1's logic here, but I still think Cass takes it, because imo she's that good. Kind of the link between Spidey and Iron Fist level (I put Danny on Spidey's level, WITHOUT his Iron Fist. 😛 ), and Batmans level, being juuuust between the two.

The fact there is absolutely no reason Cass shouldn't be able read and counter Cap is simply being brushed under the rug by Cap enthusiasts.

No, it isn't. Her having the ability doesn't make it an auto-win, so please, stop baiting people.

Even if you think Cass is decisively more skilled than Steve is in combat - which is extremely debatable - his stats coupled with his own master level of skill puts him over in this bout. He's clearly superhuman and is clearly portrayed as being a master/top tier martial artist. I think Steve will have issues and may have to work for his wins, but he's going to win pretty much every single time.

With Cass's enhanced stats and her ability to read movements, I definitely think it's close. Cap still wins the majority, but it's not a stomp.

I think Steve is gonna win like 9/10 times, but those fights will all require some effort and work put into them, if that makes sense.

Originally posted by -Pr-
No, it isn't. Her having the ability doesn't make it an auto-win, so please, stop baiting people.

If anyones doing the baiting, it's the people who have a general "Cap wins because he's Cap" mentality, like he's the god of martial arts in comic books, while underrating whoever happens to be his opponent of the week.

And imo, Cassandra Cain can be pretty underrated.. I'll admit I'm not 100% on her history, but I have read her entire solo series, her fights with Slade, and a few other things.. I pretty much stopped with her when became a villain, and they just assassinated her character...

But I can't see how anyone could claim she's "not that impressive", as some have. She's insanely impressive, imo. Maybe Cap beats her, maybe not, but if you ("You" in a general sense) claim you're not impressed with her history, I'll probably assume you either haven't read much of it, or you're maybe a little bit biased against the character.

Just saying. ^^;

I'd go with Steve 7/10.

Originally posted by cdtm
If anyones doing the baiting, it's the people who have a general "Cap wins because he's Cap" mentality, like he's the god of martial arts in comic books, while underrating whoever happens to be his opponent of the week.

And imo, Cassandra Cain can be pretty underrated.. I'll admit I'm not 100% on her history, but I have read her entire solo series, her fights with Slade, and a few other things.. I pretty much stopped with her when became a villain, and they just assassinated her character...

But I can't see how anyone could claim she's "not that impressive", as some have. She's insanely impressive, imo. Maybe Cap beats her, maybe not, but if you ("You" in a general sense) claim you're not impressed with her history, I'll probably assume you either haven't read much of it, or you're maybe a little bit biased against the character.

Just saying. ^^;

Anyone who says "Cap wins because he's cap" is obviously just having a laugh, and I worry about anyone that takes them seriously.

I don't recall anyone arguing that "cap wins, because he's Cap".

Originally posted by -Pr-
Anyone who says "Cap wins because he's cap" is obviously just having a laugh, and I worry about anyone that takes them seriously.

🙂 Sure.

That's not what I'm on about, though. It's the people who probably don't say it, for laughs or otherwise, but who "believe" it.

Happens with all the "icons", to be fair. And Cap, he's an iconic character.

I can your point, cdtm, but really, in some cases, those "iconic" characters really do have the feats to warrant them being the favorite in their bout. In terms of the high end "street level" tier, in a fight with no weapons or gear, Steve is arguably the top guy.

Originally posted by cdtm
🙂 Sure.

That's not what I'm on about, though. It's the people who probably don't say it, for laughs or otherwise, but who "believe" it.

Happens with all the "icons", to be fair. And Cap, he's an iconic character.

well, those people are clearly morons.

Originally posted by -Pr-
No, it isn't. Her having the ability doesn't make it an auto-win, so please, stop baiting people.

Cassandra evaded Slade Wilson right and even gave him troubles. I see no reason why she couldn't do the same to Steve.

Originally posted by namorsubby
You guys simply have no valid reason to claim cap can negate her ability. Its the most vital point in this match and everyones either completely ignoring it or simply saying Cap will overcome it through physical superiority. Not good enough. Id like an actual explanation.

Maybe people would give you a reason if you weren't so dismissive and testy about it.

You not thinking they have a valid reason doesn't mean they don't have one.

He was toying around with her. Not a great ft if you think about it. Don't think Spade would even get the chance to mess around with Cap before realizing he needs to take this guy serious.

That was their 2nd fight where cass claimed he was hard to read. Im thinking slades whole 90% brainpower enhancement had something to do with it and/or he adjusted somehow from the first fight. Cap doesnt have that. So again, why couldn't cassandra read him like a book?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Maybe people would give you a reason if you weren't so dismissive and testy about it.

You not thinking they have a valid reason doesn't mean they don't have one.