Originally posted by -Pr-
If she tried to kill him, he'd kill her in self defence. Cap is a soldier; it's not as if she's fighting someone like Batman, who would never kill her.
She is not going to try to kill him. Batgirl doesn't kill (or at least heroes). She would be trying to ko Cap, nothing more. Remember this is h2h (she doesn't have blades or killing weapons so that Cap can miscontrue her intentions).
With that said, Cap isn't going to kill a female human kid, even if they did try to kill him. Hell, many many beings have tried to kill Cap and he didn't kill them but simply koed them.
Originally posted by h1a8
She is not going to try to kill him. Batgirl doesn't kill (or at least heroes). She would be trying to ko Cap, nothing more. Remember this is h2h (she doesn't have blades or killing weapons so that Cap can miscontrue her intentions).With that said, Cap isn't going to kill a female human kid, even if they did try to kill him. Hell, many many beings have tried to kill Cap and he didn't kill them but simply koed them.
Originally posted by h1a8
She is not going to try to kill him. Batgirl doesn't kill (or at least heroes). She would be trying to ko Cap, nothing more. Remember this is h2h (she doesn't have blades or killing weapons so that Cap can miscontrue her intentions).With that said, Cap isn't going to kill a female human kid, even if they did try to kill him. Hell, many many beings have tried to kill Cap and he didn't kill them but simply koed them.
And you think that's some kind of disadvantage?
People who haven't been able to 'bypass' her move reading- Batman, Slade, her dad...
Originally posted by pym-ftw
TaskMaster also has legit super human abilities with his double speed deal...
Cassandra also has legit superhuman coordination and aggregate speed, plus the reading. More of her brain is dedicated to fighting than anyone else, and it is directly stated that moving like she does is mentally impossible for a normal human.
Here's the lab data:
They listed her as having superhuman speed and strength, and even after confirming no metagene, they leap to cybernetic accelerator implants.
---
As for the killing, it's simply not going to happen either way. Cass uses nerve strikes, Capt's quite skilled at hitting without killing. It's not going to matter.
Originally posted by Q99Ok? He anticipated them in succession.
If they were literally the same time, then speed or anticipation, neither would do. If they were in rapid succession, then judging where they'll be coming works.
It was shown all 4 beams at him in one panel and all 4 were blocked in one sequence. That is laser time.
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/9373/avengersv300807.jpg
Zero G should have zero effect on whether it was aim-anticipated or not.
Zero G have you ever tried moving under water guy? Now imagine worse under zero gravity where electronic guidance aim beams. Plus like I said you can argue 1-2 aim dodging but all of them and its a moot point.
Yeah plus the enclosed space to do all that. Well then you've got one of the most insane speed feats known to characters.
It's actually far, far more silly. Literally orders of magnitude more silly... especially as the feats can be done with anticipation, and the panels certainly do not show the lasers in-flight.
At least with Steve you got that sci fi silly SSS created by a mad scientest wanting human perfection to do his silly feats. Cass all you got is special martial arts.......no offense but faster then sound speed....or faster then light speed. Both are ridiculous for "human" at least Steve is the next step of human evolution.
Now with that stated, I don't agree with laser time nor bullet time. But this is your logic at work here.
Here, here is Cassandra moving into the way of, and out of the way, of bullets:
Covered see above.
And here is sniper-bullet dodging:
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/102264/2686298-batgirl_022_10_11.jpg
Covered above. Also here Steve rolls with the beam, while he was in mid-air.......LOL.Actually Steve does two feats in one. I just now notice this.....look below.
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/9902/captainamerica26717.jpg
Cap throws his shield at him while he deflects the shield with his laser beam sword and directs the shield at the crowd. Cap jumps mid flight to catch his shield. That's one feat of catching his shield by the force generated by the beam's speed and power.
While Cap is in midflight guy shoot Steve with his beam as Steve rolls with it reducing its power. To roll with a punch you go with it to reduce it. Steve did the same but with a beam........LOL.
Yeah pretty up there to move with a beam....on mid flight. Anyways bullet time.....laser time........its all irrelevant towards there fights with there peers.
Originally posted by Q99
People who haven't been able to 'bypass' her move reading- Batman, Slade, her dad...
IIRC her second match with Slade. She stated that he was odd or difficult to read.
Which is funny DD who can do somewhat similar to Cass also had trouble reading Steve originally. As both Slade/Steve are enhanced and both Cass/DD do there type of readings.
Now does this mean the readings or Steve/Slade are exactly the same?
No of course not....but the similarity is there.
Originally posted by namorsubby
you guys are dodging the fact that you cannot give an adequate explanation for why and/or Cap will negate or overcome her ability.Glossed over. Like I said.
This is a fair point. But it's not always about perfect counter negation. You once told me you believe that Slade could take her in a fight in the end. Despite the showing that Cass can indeed stalemate him.
There stalemates imply in the end, that they could not negate the other.
Cap has had the advantage at times on Daredevil.....and Daredevil has had the advantage at times on him......but usually its a stalemate. Very similar to Cass/Slade.
They can't perfectly counter one or the other due to both there abilities. But with no stalemates and everything being equal I give the slight nod to Steve over DD....and Slade over Cass.
Truth be told this is a hard match up for Steve as it is for Slade as the argument can be made very well for both sides.
Originally posted by Q99
People who haven't been able to 'bypass' her move reading- Batman, Slade, her dad...Cassandra also has legit superhuman coordination and aggregate speed, plus the reading. More of her brain is dedicated to fighting than anyone else, and it is directly stated that moving like she does is mentally impossible for a normal human.
Here's the lab data:
They listed her as having superhuman speed and strength, and even after confirming no metagene, they leap to cybernetic accelerator implants.
These people all give different opinions and are coming with different conclusions, thus its vague in the end. No offense to your scans but they are difficult to read(now I can read them). Also one of them even states....Look—humans can throw a 100 miles-per-hour fastball, smash concrete blocks with their heads, and run 4.2 forties. What they can't do is all of that at once. It's not so much physical as... as mentally impossible. Too much to coordinate.
There implying all humans can do what Cass can do separately.... just not all at once. So her mind can multi task way better. Which is no secret that her mind lets her body read to calculate her attacks against multiple foes.
It's impressive to say the least. But she is also up against someone enhanced to a preternatural level above all her stats outside of maybe speed.......and that alone is debatable.
IIRC her second match with Slade. She stated that he was odd or difficult to read.
Difficult, but still doable enough to dodge all his stuff ^^
Heck, in their third match he says the only way to hit her is to get in her head.
There implying all humans can do what Cass can do separately.... just not all at once. So her mind can multi task way better.
Yep, which is an advantage in addition to her reading.
Capt has higher other stats, Cass has the reading and super-multitasking.
Originally posted by Q99Yep, which is an advantage in addition to her reading.
Capt has higher other stats, Cass has the reading and super-multitasking.
Agreed along with Agent statements of Bruce Lee on crack.
Definitely matches her A+ martial art skills of her peers.
Curious were do you rank Steve in in pure skill?
Originally posted by -Pr-
And you think that's some kind of disadvantage?
Yup, because it takes away from his hitting power and thus his speed of his attack (punch/kick/etc.) will be decreased. Batgirl can defend more easily (without prediction) since attacks would be slower than that of a non holding back Cap. Cap might also underestimate her durability, and provided that he hits her, she will still be in the fight.
Originally posted by h1a8Kid? How old is she?
She is not going to try to kill him. Batgirl doesn't kill (or at least heroes). She would be trying to ko Cap, nothing more. Remember this is h2h (she doesn't have blades or killing weapons so that Cap can miscontrue her intentions).With that said, Cap isn't going to kill a female human kid, even if they did try to kill him. Hell, many many beings have tried to kill Cap and he didn't kill them but simply koed them.
Originally posted by Silent Master
So basically, you want the match to be between an "all out" Batgirl and a Cap who is holding back?
I already stated that if Cap wasn't holding back then he wins the majority
But in character he would lose.
So it's not a matter of what I want since I covered both scenarios.
Depends on when you're talking about, really. Some time passes during the series, one year between meeting Shiva and the death duel, then the OYL skip, plus whatever other time passes but at least those two explicit years.
At the time of the reboot, I'd say she's more like 18-19.
Curious were do you rank Steve in in pure skill?
Pretty darn high! I think a little less than the purely martial arts focused characters (Cass, Shiva, Shang Chi) but not far from it.
Originally posted by h1a8
I already stated that if Cap wasn't holding back then he wins the majority
But in character he would lose.So it's not a matter of what I want since I covered both scenarios.
What feats did you use to come to the conclusion that it's in character for Cap to hold back against highly skilled martial artists when they're trying to injure/kill him?
Originally posted by namorsubby
you guys are dodging the fact that you cannot give an adequate explanation for why and/or Cap will negate or overcome her ability.Glossed over. Like I said.
that would be kinda funny if i did not address it 3x already through examples of others with a similar ability who failed to do very well against cap--including a legit superhuman. you, however, did gloss over the no limits fallacy that you're implying. so...yeah. agree to disagree, just don't pretend like "the cap side" has run in fear from your point and that things were 'glossed over' when they were addressed--directly and specifically--multiple times by me and others in the thread. you may not like HOW they were addressed, but hey, i don't like a lot of things.
