Cass (Batgirl) vs Captain America

What makes val beyond street? At base levels, he isnt that far ahead of most streets in the stats category.

Originally posted by Golgo13
What makes val beyond street? At base levels, he isnt that far ahead of most streets in the stats category.

Karate Kid?

Well, the fact he can tear through tanks and level mountains of packed ice and snow, for one. Pretty much any time he hits a street level character and doesn't take their head off, it's either PIS or he's seriously pulling his punches.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't know about other people, but for me, her body language reading will work, it just won't be enough to help her win. Why? Because Cap is stronger than her. He's at least as fast, if not faster. He's more durable. He's arguably as skilled, if not more skilled.

She's going to have a tougher time against him purely because even if she sees a punch coming, it's still coming at her with the speed and strength of a top tier MA. You could argue that she might hit him more than vice versa, but I honestly don't believe any gap on her end is going to make the difference.

Also, Steve can take more hits than she can.

I don't agree that he'll have a hard time hitting her, tbh. No more than vice versa, anyway.

Her speed and ability will allow her to hit him MUCH more imo.

Even if you are right about her being quicker and more skilled, I don't think the gap is big enough to make that much of a difference, but that's me.

What feats of Cass suggest her being faster and more agile than Steve?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
What feats of Cass suggest her being faster and more agile than Steve?

But I'm not arguing who's faster since both can engage each other with near equal speeds. My argument is that Cass wins because Steve will hold back somewhat while Cass has the predictive power, learning style power, and pressure point ability.

I really don't see how Steve not killing her somehow hinders him.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I really don't see how Steve not killing her somehow hinders him.

Lastly, not necessarily try to kill her but permanently damage her as well.

Originally posted by h1a8
Those bullet feats. Moving out of the way of a bullet that's only inches from you is impressive as hell.

But I'm not arguing who's faster since both can engage each other with near equal speeds. My argument is that Cass wins because Steve will hold back somewhat while Cass has the predictive power, learning style power, and pressure point ability.

Unless Cass holds back, then we are back to Cap winning.

Steve often uses nerve strikes, too.

I've been sayin that for pages now aswell

Originally posted by cdtm
Karate Kid?

Well, the fact he can tear through tanks and level mountains of packed ice and snow, for one. Pretty much any time he hits a street level character and doesn't take their head off, it's either PIS or he's seriously pulling his punches.

A lot of that is through skill, though.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Hell have a hard time hitting her at all imo.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Her speed and ability will allow her to hit him MUCH more imo.

Funny how you play these cards here but in DD vs Wild Cat you play these ones.

Originally posted by namorsubby

Ted has the damage soak, skill, and experience to beat daredevil.

Originally posted by namorsubby

Wildcat 6-7/10

By your own logic DD is much faster and would hardly get hit and yet you give it to Wildcat for the majority.

By your own argument Steve is much stronger, better damage soak, and a A-list in his own right but in this one you give it to Cass.

Your only argument now will be that you view Cass superior to DD in speed, skill and body reading. And that DDs advantages gap to Ted, are not as far as Cass is to Cap.

Watch this everyone this will be Subby's next argument. But this logic would be illogical. At least be consistent with it.

No offense Subby but you are not deceiving anyone.

Originally posted by Golgo13
A lot of that is through skill, though.

It's "all" through skill. 🙂

Ok, I see what you're saying now, and I agree "technically" his stats make him street level, if not for his skills.

Practically? He's another cl 100 speedster brick. 😄

A difference that makes no difference is no difference.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Steve often uses nerve strikes, too.

Boards don't hit back.

Doesn't matter since she can hit steve far easier than steve can hit her, because of her predictive ability and learning ability.

Originally posted by h1a8
Boards don't hit back.

Doesn't matter since she can hit steve far easier than steve can hit her, because of her predictive ability and learning ability.

wat

Come on. Steve's not going to struggle THAT much to tag Cass and Cass isn't going to easily tag Steve.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
wat

Come on. Steve's not going to struggle THAT much to tag Cass and Cass isn't going to easily tag Steve.

I'm just saying that Cass has an easier time tagging Steve then the other way around. I'm not suggesting that it's impossible for Steve to hit Cass or even nigh difficult.

You can't deny the fact that predictive power combined with learning ability (to any style) makes it nigh difficult to land a clean blow.

Originally posted by h1a8
Boards don't hit back.

Doesn't matter since she can hit steve far easier than steve can hit her, because of her predictive ability and learning ability.

Cap is no Karnak, he fights with the very best martial artists Marvel has to offer.

Batgirl got trolled by Joker and had trouble reading DS, Steve would annihilate her.