Cass (Batgirl) vs Captain America

Originally posted by Daredevil1
This is a fair point. But it's not always about perfect counter negation. You once told me you believe that Slade could take her in a fight in the end. Despite the showing that Cass can indeed stalemate him.

There stalemates imply in the end, that they could not negate the other.

Cap has had the advantage at times on Daredevil.....and Daredevil has had the advantage at times on him......but usually its a stalemate. Very similar to Cass/Slade.

They can't perfectly counter one or the other due to both there abilities. But with no stalemates and everything being equal I give the slight nod to Steve over DD....and Slade over Cass.

Truth be told this is a hard match up for Steve as it is for Slade as the argument can be made very well for both sides.

though i disagree with your opening point, i do agree with the overall sentiment. this would be an extremely difficult fight for cap, each one, and i also get why people say cassandra would win. it simply depends on which area you put the most importance on.

Batgirl.

Originally posted by Silent Master
What feats did you use to come to the conclusion that it's in character for Cap to hold back against highly skilled martial artists when they're trying to injure/kill him?

His whole history suggests it. And this isn't just a highly skilled Martial artist but also a female child hero. Child is the strongest reason, then hero, then female. But all three?

Also many many many human enemies tried to kill Cap yet Cap didn't kill them or gravely injure them. He simply koed them and that was the end of it.

Batgirl would not be trying to kill Cap, Cap knows this (she's a hero that doesn't kill).

Let me ask you something. Be honest.
Do you think Cap will try to punch Batgirl with the force to kill a human or just enough to try to ko her?

Since you dodged the question, I'll ask again.

What feats did you use to come to the conclusion that it's in character for Cap to hold back against highly skilled martial artists when they're trying to injure/kill him?

Probably Cassandra, Cap is stronger but the Bat Family tend to walk around with small arsenals at all times.

^

Originally posted by carver9
Pre reboot version of Cassie vs Captain America.

No weapons or shields for either of them.

Who wins?

No gear, BTW are they in armor?

In a comic Cap would probably overpower her and win. But it wouldn't be easy.

Originally posted by Stoic
In a comic Cap would probably overpower her and win. But it wouldn't be easy.

Considering in a comic, he KOed Hulk.. 😱

The editors at Marvel must be fanboys themselves. Maybe some of them post here.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Since you dodged the question, I'll ask again.

What feats did you use to come to the conclusion that it's in character for Cap to hold back against highly skilled martial artists when they're trying to injure/kill him?

All feats against hundreds of humans that tried to kill him.
He simply koed them and not kill them. He could have easily killed them with a single punch or kick.

Originally posted by h1a8
I didn't dodge the question but put it subtle. Here are the feats:

All feats against hundreds of humans that tried to kill him.
He simply koed them and not kill them. He could have easily killed them with a single punch or kick.

Using that standard, Batgirl will also be holding back.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
This is a fair point. But it's not always about perfect counter negation. You once told me you believe that Slade could take her in a fight in the end. Despite the showing that Cass can indeed stalemate him.

There stalemates imply in the end, that they could not negate the other.

Cap has had the advantage at times on Daredevil.....and Daredevil has had the advantage at times on him......but usually its a stalemate. Very similar to Cass/Slade.

They can't perfectly counter one or the other due to both there abilities. But with no stalemates and everything being equal I give the slight nod to Steve over DD....and Slade over Cass.

Truth be told this is a hard match up for Steve as it is for Slade as the argument can be made very well for both sides.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Batgirl V2 #63:

Deathstroke Vs. Cassandra Cain, Round 2.

Slade's toying with her and she knows it. She claims he's hard to read, probably because of how fast he thinks.It's a stalemate I guess.

Slade and Cap are both beasts in their own right, but different beasts. Not nearly as similar as some imply.

You're right, Cap is more skilled than Slade.

Back to the topic, Cap wins.

Youre right, Cass will read Steve like a book.

She wins in 7 of 10 chapters.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You're right, Cap is more skilled than Slade.

Back to the topic, Cap wins.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Youre right

Originally posted by Silent Master
Using that standard, Batgirl will also be holding back.

Batgirl can't kill Steve with a punch or kick while Steve can possibly kill or gravely injure her with a punch. She can ko him with pressure points though. So again, her knowing Steve is superhuman and can take a punch she is not going to hold back.

Originally posted by h1a8
Batgirl can't kill Steve with a punch or kick while Steve can possibly kill or gravely injure her with a punch. She can ko him with pressure points though. So again, her knowing Steve is superhuman and can take a punch she is not going to hold back.

IOW, we are back to you trying to make this thread "all out" Batgirl vs a "holding back" Cap.

Originally posted by Silent Master
IOW, we are back to you trying to make this thread "all out" Batgirl vs a "holding back" Cap.

I'll repeat

Both characters not holding back then Cap wins.
Cap holding back then Cass wins.

Is that clear?

What about if they both hold back or Batgirl holds back and Cap doesn't?

Originally posted by Silent Master
What about if they both hold back or Batgirl holds back and Cap doesn't?

Really, has anyone ever noticed a difference in performance between top-shelf martial artists trying to KO and trying to kill? Because I haven't.

Sometimes between 'disable without hurting' and 'ko/kill,' but someone at the high levels going all-out to KO is functionally very similar to going all-out to kill.