Odin (in Destroyer) vs. Tyrant

Originally posted by leonidas
umm, why can't it be both....? you destroy a core, the destruction wave spreads out to engulf the rest of the galaxy. not too hard to credit. and if the only reason you're discounting on panel proof is that you're calling odin an unreliable narrator, welllll.....that's on you. rage likely has the scan of odin retelling what happened but you'll believe what you'd like. there just isn't any logical reason to think that after the core was destroyed, the rest of the galaxy was also destroyed. especially when that was specifically stated on panel.

The Galactus vs Odin battle was not close.

Galactus was winning the TP battle since the start. The fight lasted longer because THOR attacked Galactus head with all he had, during the TP fight.

But in the end, Galactus won the TP battle. When Odin saw he would lost, he tried a kamikaze attack with ALL he had (used so many power and got K.O).

What the attack with all Odin had, did to Galactus ? Nothing. Cant see in any way a close combat here...

^ Yep, I think it's Thor/Odin fan's last attempt to hold on to any hope that Odin is Galactus' equal. He's simply not.

Originally posted by leonidas
👆 i could likewise say if you think if galactus fought set that their battle would be felt throughout the multiverse then that is on you. neither the g engine nor set has any particular relevance though.

Originally posted by leonidas

well, if no evidence is useful, well.......okay? when used in combination with later celestial depictions, i'll choose to view the letters' page article as proof of the editorial stance. feel free to ignore.

Originally posted by leonidas

iyo you mean.

Originally posted by leonidas

😂
wow, your opinion carries a lot of weight with you, eh? and of course, that IS an opinion. which i heartily disagree with.

Originally posted by leonidas

i get you don't get it. that doesn't however, mean the stance is wrong, or any less justified than your own. at all. g was pretty damn stunned by that ridiculous headbutt, had been pushed in tp, and now faced an even more powerful version of odin then the one he'd been fighting for an issue and a half. wholly one-sided battles do NOT go that long. but, again, ignore what you need to, interpret however you feel necessary. just don't forget that it is your opinion, and nothing more.

Originally posted by leonidas

it was impressive as a core--it was more impressive as a galaxy, as was mentioned in thor 349. but like zop, feel free to choose whichever info you'd like to believe.

Originally posted by zopzop
Sure, but that would be like me saying I threw a lit match into a gas leak and destroyed an entire house using my power.

umm.....? except the match isn't YOUR power. be more akin to you thunderclapping, and the first thing that it destroys is the house you thunderclapped in tehn the wave spread out and destroyed the block.

if you can't see the difference.....

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Except you can't. Seeing how Galactus went even further in his battle with Scrier and the Other, it wouldn't be on me to say that Galactus could rock the multiversal fabric in a fight with Seth. Hell, I am pretty sure that some posters would admonish me for not saying that Galactus stomps his ass straight up.

well......who cares what some posters who would be very wrong would have to say? 🙂 galactus couldn't stomp mephisto without resorting to attacking his realm. it's been alluded to that dormmy and odin are relative equals and dormmy has been shown to be>mephisto. g couldn't stomp aggamotto either. but comparing different battles doesn't always work--which is why i said it was irrelevant earlier. but all indications lead one to believe that there is not a huge difference between g and odin. and their direct confrontation, from teh build up, to the length of the battle to the unresolved conclusion, bore that out crystal clearly imo.

I am saying that evidence from letters pages, which in one instance tells us that Celestials were superior to Galactus and the Watcher, and in another case uses apologist semantics to justify the skyfathers pathetic loss, isn't useful in this scenario.

and again, that is your opinion of that explanation but your opinion in no way influences the veracity of that text. and i completely disagree with your opinion, both regarding the interpretation as well as the relevance as it relates directly to the way the celestials were depicted in that particular instance. if you choose not to believe it is relevant, that's up to you. it DOES have relevance though, and that is INDISPUTABLE. the reasons are self evident--it influences MY opinion.

In fact I mean. There's a matter of opinion, and there's a matter of fact.

true. just not in this case. again, the reason is self-evident. were it indeed "factual", as you claim, no one would dispute it. many do. (rage and galan and even mr.sunking (if he was the one who posted the letter col article in our discussion) are all among those who share my pov among others, so you don't think i'm just making sh!t up) all agree that the view of the celestials has changed since that thor issue and all agree that odin is a near-peer to g. some knowledgeable posters to so blatantly disregard 'fact'.

Why would you think that the Destroyer gave Galactus any sort of pause when we don't even see a battle between the 2

exactly because of that fact. g is not the type to abandon a bf. he was up, apparently no worse for wear. they had what was pretty clearly to me a stand-off and g decided against pursuing things. the way it was drawn, they were clearly taking the measure of each other. were he so positive he could have ended things, he would have imo. hell, he even suffered ss to remain behind and made a deal with the asgardians. i'm not saying he was afraid of the destroyer. i'm not even saying he couldn't have won. i am saying the outcome wasn't nearly so clear as some would like to claim. if you don't see it that way, well, your opinion is no more wrong than mine. difference is i'm not dressing mine up as fact.

I do get it. Galactus was merely out for a panel and a half from what I recall from that headbutt. Getting up from it, reforming himself and acting as if nothing happened isn't proof that he "was pretty damn stunned by that ridiculous headbutt"

well, down and out for even a panel and a half is pretty damn stunned in my book. what other character who is so apparently 'over-matched' by him, has ever ko'd him--at all?

It was a tp battle for crying out loud, and it was in a Thor comic, against a villain that is the stereotyped as a jobber. Odin was written as going all out in a physical attack, not Galactus. There's a reason for that.

that's....not even an argument. jobber aura? thor comic? c'mon.......put relevance in that if you choose, but i won't. that's like yelling pis in my book.

as for the attack--it was stupid, and blatantly out of character but obviously g was stronger. you seem to think i'm denying that or something. i'm denying the magnitude of the difference. fact is that after the headbutt odin was NOT so done that he couldn't continue the fight in an even more powerful form and all ANYONE has is speculation and opinion regarding how that fight would have gone. no facts i'm afraid.

Post the scan. Let's discuss and dissect what's mentioned in those panels, especially when we already have access to the first-hand account of the said feat(as provided by zop earlier in this thread). Thor #349 is mentioned in Surtur's respect Thread by Igniz. Hell, I'll PM him for said scans if you're unable to do so on your own.

like i said, if i had the electronic version i'd happily post it for discussion but i don't, nor could i find a version of it that wouldn't require a massive torrent dl. but by all means, if you find it post it.

anywho, you're not changing my mind, and i'm clearly not changing yours so i'll leave off on this for now as it will just become circular. you think there's a big difference, i don't. differences make the world go round.

Originally posted by leonidas
you say i'm making it more, i say you're making it less. the fight lasted a full issue. that in and of itself is enough to indicate that this was meant to be close imo. and perhaps g WAS getting the better, but not enough that he was decisively winning. odin seemed to have left because tp wasn't going to get it done and he got impatient. maybe g would have worn him down tp-wise later, but it was very close indeed

Doesn't matter how long the fight lasted. G had enough juice to keep going. Odin didn't. It was decisive considering the scan I posted stated by Odin himself saying he didn't have the strength to continue. Just like if we fought all day then by nightfall you try a headbutt and ko yourself but I gather myself and leave. The only credit you get is endurance, just like in this case.

Originally posted by leonidas
meh so is terrax and firelord and......pc doesn't manifest the same all the time. you can speculate all you'd like. but we have on-panel proof odin has uber tp. nothing to say for sure tyrant does. though in the armor you're right--it might be different

Tyrant has a closer connection to G, more than any herald. No other herald can fully restore the power cosmic to another herald like what Tyrant did to Morg. No other herald screams out in pain when G consumed a world. Tyrant is not in the same category as the heralds and thus should at least have tp resistance to a high degree. Even Surfer has it on a moderate level as evidenced by him shrugging of Moondragon.

Originally posted by leonidas
maybe but since we've never seen a regular g battle a celestial we don't know how he would fair. he also tends to expend power very quickly (see him trying to break thanos's shield...) so his energy levels would have been depleting as he went along in the battle

G would fare well against a Celestial one on one. If he was performing that good on a 4 world meal, then there's no doubt about it. One things for sure, he wasn't depleted when he faced Odin. He reconstituted himself and was no worse for wear.

Originally posted by leonidas
you can use whatever you'd like of course. i don't think it's a fair comparison because the view of celestials has changed somewhat over time. we have g one-shotting them and taking on 4 at once and doing pretty dame well, while we have odin lasting an issue+ against him in 1on1 battle. we've seen zeus with some unspecified amp basically one shot g. back in that famous thor issue, 3 high end skyfathers COMBINED, could barely get arishem to NOTICE them. to me it's quite clear there has been an editorial shift in the way things are viewed cosmologically speaking and that shift makes comparing feats from different eras tricky.

but, do what you need to do.

Or maybe the skyfathers were portrayed as lesser than they are now. That blast was against Arishem who was labeled as the mightiest of all Celestials and the force was only enough to move a planet out of orbit so there's that. That's like around herald level planet buster power.

Originally posted by leonidas
oh --and OF thor did behead it--but it wasn't empowered BY the odinforce so it's a wholly different animal.

Dessak is no slouch. He was killing Dark Gods. A FP Tyrant would do more than behead it.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Doesn't matter how long the fight lasted. G had enough juice to keep going. Odin didn't. It was decisive considering the scan I posted stated by Odin himself saying he didn't have the strength to continue. Just like if we fought all day then by nightfall you try a headbutt and ko yourself but I gather myself and leave. The only credit you get is endurance, just like in this case.

it was more than just length. it was g sweating, getting po'd, falling from orbit, getting ko'd even if only for a few moments. and odin DID continue the fight. he continued it with an even more powerful form in fact. so.....not sure what more you want.

Tyrant has a closer connection to G, more than any herald. No other herald can fully restore the power cosmic to another herald like what Tyrant did to Morg. No other herald screams out in pain when G consumed a world. Tyrant is not in the same category as the heralds and thus should at least have tp resistance to a high degree. Even Surfer has it on a moderate level as evidenced by him shrugging of Moondragon.

sure ss has some tp. pretty good too. but that doesn't mean tyrant does, for all your speculation. he probably has some. but it would be less than galactus's. odin was pretty damn close to g imo. that alone would make this not a stomp as some seem to want to suggest.

G would fare well against a Celestial one on one. If he was performing that good on a 4 world meal, then there's no doubt about it. One things for sure, he wasn't depleted when he faced Odin. He reconstituted himself and was no worse for wear.

g would def fair well. a normal g would likely kill a celestial. would he do so more easily than he 'beat' odin? maybe not, but i doubt some no name celestial would last as long, temp ko g or engage him almost equally in a tp battle. aggamotto and mephisto are other areas of support that suggets g is no where near as far above odin as some would suggest.

Or maybe the skyfathers were portrayed as lesser than they are now. That blast was against Arishem who was labeled as the mightiest of all Celestials and the force was only enough to move a planet out of orbit so there's that. That's like around herald level planet buster power.

👆

sure, i could buy that, no doubt. it would amount to the same thing. celestials are less, or the skyfathers are more. my point has always been that the cosmological view has shifted some and the gaps that were once considered huge have shrunk in some ways. i actually like it that way.

Dessak is no slouch. He was killing Dark Gods. A FP Tyrant would do more than behead it.

no slouch, but not odin either. and i very much doubt it. and if he did it would be after a hell of a fight imo.

like i said to gk--i'm gonna leave off on this. i doubt i'll change your mind as relates to the relative closeness of these 2, and you're not changing mine so agree to disagree in my book.

^^
Agreed.
With the last part of your post that is.

Originally posted by zopzop
No, I'm pretty sure he's right and it says "CORE OF A GALAXY"

Unless this was retconned later.

except for this:

Originally posted by Horrificus
except for this:

I guess this will just be ANOTHER panel that doesn't count for some reason or another. 🙄

g would def fair well. a normal g would likely kill a celestial. would he do so more easily than he 'beat' odin? maybe not, but i doubt some no name celestial would last as long, temp ko g or engage him almost equally in a tp battle. aggamotto and mephisto are other areas of support that suggets g is no where near as far above odin as some would suggest.

Depending on how much he's fed he can be considerably above Odin. Brevoort suiggested if reasonably fed, the same result can be expected as the Celestials vs Odin/Destroyer. G's power level is variable.

Originally posted by Horrificus
except for this:

On panel, he destroyed a galactic core. No more, no less.

Originally posted by Horrificus
Gee. I had hoped for more feedback than this. I really respect what you all have to say.

I guess this will just be ANOTHER panel that doesn't count for some reason or another. 🙄

I guess Surtur is almost as powerful as Sentry.

Originally posted by zopzop
No, I'm pretty sure he's right and it says "CORE OF A GALAXY"

Unless this was retconned later.

The rest of the scan.

Surtur capable of destroying a universe.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13621575/Thor-Zone-007.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13621576/Thor-Zone-008.jpg.html

Originally posted by Igniz
The rest of the scan.

Surtur capable of destroying a universe.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13621575/Thor-Zone-007.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13621576/Thor-Zone-008.jpg.html

Originally posted by zopzop
That's all talk my friend. Show it to me ON PANEL in action.

On panel, he destroyed a galactic core. No more, no less.

Originally posted by leonidas
well......who cares what some posters who would be very wrong would have to say? 🙂 galactus couldn't stomp mephisto without resorting to attacking his realm. it's been alluded to that dormmy and odin are relative equals and dormmy has been shown to be>mephisto. g couldn't stomp aggamotto either. but comparing different battles doesn't always work--which is why i said it was irrelevant earlier. but all indications lead one to believe that there is not a huge difference between g and odin. and their direct confrontation, from teh build up, to the length of the battle to the unresolved conclusion, bore that out crystal clearly imo.

Originally posted by leonidas

and again, that is your opinion of that explanation but your opinion in no way influences the veracity of that text. and i completely disagree with your opinion, both regarding the interpretation as well as the relevance as it relates directly to the way the celestials were depicted in that particular instance. if you choose not to believe it is relevant, that's up to you. it DOES have relevance though, and that is INDISPUTABLE. the reasons are self evident--it influences MY opinion.

Originally posted by leonidas

true. just not in this case. again, the reason is self-evident. were it indeed "factual", as you claim, no one would dispute it. many do. (rage and galan and even mr.sunking (if he was the one who posted the letter col article in our discussion) are all among those who share my pov among others, so you don't think i'm just making sh!t up) all agree that the view of the celestials has changed since that thor issue and all agree that odin is a near-peer to g. some knowledgeable posters to so blatantly disregard 'fact'.

Originally posted by leonidas

exactly because of that fact. g is not the type to abandon a bf. he was up, apparently no worse for wear. they had what was pretty clearly to me a stand-off and g decided against pursuing things. the way it was drawn, they were clearly taking the measure of each other. were he so positive he could have ended things, he would have imo. hell, he even suffered ss to remain behind and made a deal with the asgardians. i'm not saying he was afraid of the destroyer. i'm not even saying he couldn't have won. i am saying the outcome wasn't nearly so clear as some would like to claim. if you don't see it that way, well, your opinion is no more wrong than mine. difference is i'm not dressing mine up as fact.

Originally posted by leonidas

well, down and out for even a panel and a half is pretty damn stunned in my book. what other character who is so apparently 'over-matched' by him, has ever ko'd him--at all?

Originally posted by leonidas

that's....not even an argument. jobber aura? thor comic? c'mon.......put relevance in that if you choose, but i won't. that's like yelling pis in my book.

Originally posted by leonidas

as for the attack--it was stupid, and blatantly out of character but obviously g was stronger. you seem to think i'm denying that or something. i'm denying the magnitude of the difference. fact is that after the headbutt odin was NOT so done that he couldn't continue the fight in an even more powerful form and all ANYONE has is speculation and opinion regarding how that fight would have gone. no facts i'm afraid.

Originally posted by leonidas

like i said, if i had the electronic version i'd happily post it for discussion but i don't, nor could i find a version of it that wouldn't require a massive torrent dl. but by all means, if you find it post it.

Originally posted by leonidas

anywho, you're not changing my mind, and i'm clearly not changing yours so i'll leave off on this for now as it will just become circular. you think there's a big difference, i don't. differences make the world go round.

Originally posted by Horrificus
Then, unless you can show me Tyrant actually in the process of destroying galaxies, I guess it never happened.

Originally posted by zopzop
Exactly! Good thing I've never based my arguments for Tyrant beating Odin on Tyrant's ability to bust a galaxy.