Odin (in Destroyer) vs. Tyrant

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Galactus was hungry against Agamotto and was deprived of a meal prior to the fight with Mephisto. I have the scans to back up my claims regarding both fights. Of course we shouldn't compare these different battles with the Odin fight, because in the Odin fight Galactus didn't get any physical offense at all. Galactus essentially came out on top in that fight without so much so as lifting a finger to defend himself. I'd go so far as to say that this loss of Odin's was even more humiliating than the one against the Celestials. I also found it funny how the Seth example backfired for you, considering that galactus has had a similar but more pronounced version of that battle against 2 powerful high-end cosmics.

It's not really opinion though when in one case the author pretends that the Celestials are the new be all end all of the Marvel Universe, and then in the other case he becomes an apologist for the way the skyfathers were treated in that comic. It's not relevant to this discussion, and opinion has nothing to do with it.

The Celestials encounter with the Council of Godheads was recalled by Athena in a God Squad comic in the early 2000s from what I remember. Your assumption that the Celestials position relative to the skyfathers in the hierarchy has changed over the course of time, would make sense if that encounter was a one-off incidence that was never mentioned again on-panel. Yet, it is pretty much part of the Celestials' memo in the MU, and pretending that things have changed since that time is utterly naive imo.

You're looking too much into the art, and practically ignoring the on-panel dialogue in favor of the illustrative portrayal of their seeming "staredown". Galactus and the Destroyer emit huge bursts of light before Galactus is summoned by Surfer informing him that the Seed is gone. If they had gone on to battle, and Destroyer had put up some sort of fight, then I'd have reason to believe your claim that it gave him some pause. As it stands, no such thing happened and Galactus didn't seem to be threatened in the least by the Destroyer, so I can't accept this point of view.

Knocked down. In that same comic, Thor went crashing through Galactus' helmet and elicited a reaction of pain. Galactus screamed for about one panel, and then immediately returned to the tp battle after Thor's suicide bomber attack. Similar to Odin's attack. He almost immediately got nack up up and proclaimed the continuation of the war against Asgard. What other character so over-matched by him has ever stunned him? The answer is neither Thor, and neither Odin.

Not jobber aura, jobber stereotype. It's a different story that Galactus is not a jobber based on all his canon on-panel showings. There is relevance in that if you know who wrote that battle, and how his haphazard knowledge of the characters, and resultant butchered writing ends up pissing off fans.

"odin was NOT so done that he couldn't continue the fight in an even more powerful form" .I almost feel the need to erupt at this in riotous laughter, and I would if it didn't sadden me more than it humors me. Odin had to ask Thor for help in getting up after the dust settled. Odin admitted that he summoned the Destroyer as a last resort as he lacked the strength to keep the fight going on his own. So much for him not getting done.

I'll pm Igniz shortly for the scans then. I suspect it'll be a mere recollection. It's not as loaded a piece of evidence as the first hand account that zop produced, but let's discuss it anyways.

Alright.

when you get the scan i suppose we can look at it even though i've already said it was odin talking about it and you've already committed to disregarding it...... as for the rest--i disagree, obviously. strongly. this piece though:

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Galactus was hungry against Agamotto and was deprived of a meal prior to the fight with Mephisto. I have the scans to back up my claims regarding both fights. Of course we shouldn't compare these different battles with the Odin fight, because in the Odin fight Galactus didn't get any physical offense at all. Galactus essentially came out on top in that fight without so much so as lifting a finger to defend himself. I'd go so far as to say that this loss of Odin's was even more humiliating than the one against the Celestials. I also found it funny how the Seth example backfired for you, considering that galactus has had a similar but more pronounced version of that battle against 2 powerful high-end cosmics.

well, what's to say about that? if you somehow think that my reasoning for bringing up the seth battle backfired and that your cry to the scrier battle counters it then...... this is beyond you or you're simply hating to hate. :/ which i don't really believe btw but it's hard to find a better reason. and if you think this battle was more humiliating than THREE high level skyfathers directly launching all their power at a single celestial and barely getting noticed, (arishem beat them by showing a single IMAGE) wellllll....people can judge the logic of that statement themselves and perhaps weigh the rest of your OPINION against it.

tbh, you really seem to be missing the entirety of the context and skipping straight to the end where g was the obviously the stronger.
the fact that you use the lack of any physical confrontation to support your stance speaks to your lack of understanding of the overall context. they did not fight physically because fraction didn't think that was an appropriate means of combat for beings capable of turning each other into moths. the relative closeness of the psychic battle WAS fraction's way of expressing his opinion on the 2. he clearly felt g was more powerful overall and had better staying power, but odin was NOT done BECAUSE he had a trump card that allowed him to continue in a form more suited to physical battle. not odin himself, directly, but still odin via the armour. how you can deny that is beyond me, but you're not alone in feeling the need to laught. i don't have a facepalm big enough. reply as you need to, but we've tapped this particular topic out.

Originally posted by zopzop
That's all talk my friend. Show it to me ON PANEL in action.

On panel, he destroyed a galactic core. No more, no less.

so now you've seen multiple scans that suggest surtur can destroy a galaxy (odin even EXPLICITLY STATES that he did) but you still refuse to credit it. i recall in past threads you making a huge deal out of the seth/odin battle, and talking about how impressive that was, but you can't credit multiple sources that a being nearly odin's equal can destroy a galaxy, even though it has been stated to have happened on panel? that just smacks of intransigence for its own sake zop but clearly no one is being moved on any stances in this thread so......carry on. 🙂

Originally posted by Tar-Antado
Depending on how much he's fed he can be considerably above Odin. Brevoort suiggested if reasonably fed, the same result can be expected as the Celestials vs Odin/Destroyer. G's power level is variable.

👆

i agree completely. i can def see g being WELL above odin--above pretty well anyone or anything tbh. i was expressing my opinion of their relative levels as shown in that thor issue. odin can likewise be well above galactus, (depending on his level) just as g could be well above odin. my point was that in those issues, they were not that far apart. imo.

Originally posted by leonidas
when you get the scan i suppose we can look at it even though i've already said it was odin talking about it and you've already committed to disregarding it...... as for the rest--i disagree, obviously. strongly. this piece though:

Originally posted by leonidas

well, what's to say about that? if you somehow think that my reasoning for bringing up the seth battle backfired and that your cry to the scrier battle counters it then...... this is beyond you or you're simply hating to hate. :/ which i don't really believe btw but it's hard to find a better reason. and if you think this battle was more humiliating than THREE high level skyfathers directly launching all their power at a single celestial and barely getting noticed, (arishem beat them by showing a single IMAGE) wellllll....people can judge the logic of that statement themselves and perhaps weigh the rest of your OPINION against it.

And yes, I do think that his loss against Galactus was more humiliating than the fight against the Celestials. I am willing to concede that the difference could be marginal, but that's besides the point. Also, you seem to be conveniently forgetting that the "3 skyfathers directly launching all their power against Arishem" was described by the narrative as an attack that could throw a planet out of its orbit. If you think that Arishem being unmoved by a planet dislodging force is far more admirable than Galactus shrugging off an all-out attack, and winning the fight against Odin without so much so as lifting a finger to defend himself, then nothing I can do to convince you otherwise.

Originally posted by leonidas

tbh, you really seem to be missing the entirety of the context and skipping straight to the end where g was the obviously the stronger.
the fact that you use the lack of any physical confrontation to support your stance speaks to your lack of understanding of the overall context. they did not fight physically because fraction didn't think that was an appropriate means of combat for beings capable of turning each other into moths. the relative closeness of the psychic battle WAS fraction's way of expressing his opinion on the 2. he clearly felt g was more powerful overall and had better staying power, but odin was NOT done BECAUSE he had a trump card that allowed him to continue in a form more suited to physical battle. not odin himself, directly, but still odin via the armour. how you can deny that is beyond me, but you're not alone in feeling the need to laught. i don't have a facepalm big enough. reply as you need to, but we've tapped this particular topic out.

Originally posted by leonidas
so now you've seen multiple scans that suggest surtur can destroy a galaxy (odin even EXPLICITLY STATES that he did) but you still refuse to credit it. i recall in past threads you making a huge deal out of the seth/odin battle, and talking about how impressive that was, but you can't credit multiple sources that a being nearly odin's equal can destroy a galaxy, even though it has been stated to have happened on panel? that just smacks of intransigence for its own sake zop but clearly no one is being moved on any stances in this thread so......carry on. 🙂

On panel we have Surtur destroying a galactic core. That's it.

Originally posted by leonidas
so now you've seen multiple scans that suggest surtur can destroy a galaxy (odin even EXPLICITLY STATES that he did) but you still refuse to credit it. i recall in past threads you making a huge deal out of the seth/odin battle, and talking about how impressive that was, but you can't credit multiple sources that a being nearly odin's equal can destroy a galaxy, even though it has been stated to have happened on panel? that just smacks of intransigence for its own sake zop but clearly no one is being moved on any stances in this thread so......carry on. 🙂

Anyways, Odin kicks Tyrant's pussy in the way he did Thanos'. On panel, Tyrant was crying out in pain against herald level being. Tyrant the pussy should be his title from now on.

Originally posted by zopzop
That scan Horrificus provided proves nothing. It's just a [b]statement.

On panel we have Surtur destroying a galactic core. That's it. [/B]

okey-dokey. this new "i only believe what i see on panel!" stance you seem to have suddenly assumed precludes common sense though, and the ability to infer from context....there is no reason to disbelieve odin's statement--especially when it has additional support. but, i'll be sure to remind you of this new stance of yours in the future.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Anyways, Odin kicks Tyrant's pussy in the way he did Thanos'. On panel, Tyrant was crying out in pain against herald level being. Tyrant the pussy should be his title from now on.

i'd buy it. 👆

Originally posted by leonidas
okey-dokey. this new "i only believe what i see on panel!" stance you seem to have suddenly assumed precludes common sense though, and the ability to infer from context....there is no reason to disbelieve odin's statement--especially when it has additional support. but, i'll be sure to remind you of this new stance of yours in the future.

MUCH LATER, it was shown on panel that he destroyed a galactic core.

Then you wanted to bring in a retelling/summary of the events by Odin as proof that he destroyed a galaxy yet havent' produced the scan.

So we have a meaningless statement by Surtur in an older issue. A much later appearance when he destroyed a galactic core and Odin's retelling/summary of the events (which you have yet to produce).

How is my stance wrong? You say there is no reason to disbelieve Odin's retelling yet provide nothing to back it up.

How many times has Surtur busted a galaxy? I can't even count one time. All we have ON PANEL is :
a) a statement by Surtur
b) him destroying a galactic core
c) Odin's retelling/summary of b

Originally posted by zopzop

WTH are you talking about? Surtur said he was amassing power enough to destroy a galaxy. HE SAID THIS. It was just a statement.

MUCH LATER, it was shown on panel that he destroyed a galactic core.

Then you wanted to bring in a retelling/summary of the events by Odin as proof that he destroyed a galaxy yet havent' produced the scan.

So we have a meaningless statement by Surtur in an older issue. A much later appearance when he destroyed a galactic core and Odin's retelling/summary of the events (which you have yet to produce).

How is my stance wrong? You say there is no reason to disbelieve Odin's retelling yet provide nothing to back it up.

How many times has Surtur busted a galaxy? I can't even count one time. All we have ON PANEL is :
a) a statement by Surtur
b) him destroying a galactic core
c) Odin's retelling/summary of b [/B]

well, if you think it's so easy to find the scan, be my guest.....thor 349, right near the end, odin explicitly stating surtur destroyed a galaxy. what's more, he even references the galactic heart. i'm not scanning the issue, but here is odin's direct quote:

"a galaxy he destroyed to create the forge wherein he might remake the sword of doom."

pretty damn clear imo.

so, now you have (a) surtur stating he has power to destroy a galaxy. (b) odin saying he HAS destroyed a galaxy and (c) proof he destroyed a galactic core. not much of a stretch to assume both odin and surtur were telling the truth considering what's he's shown, and considering that he was attempting to destroy the universe. far more logical to suppose they were than to wilfully call them false narrators. there's also (d) your proof is not evidence that he did not ALSO destroy the galaxy with his attack. it stands to reason actually that the destruction would move outwards and spread. anywho, i'm thinking most would likely believe surtur did indeed destroy the galaxy, but maybe i'm wrong. regardless, you're only reason for NOT accepting it is because in your opinion both surtur and odin are lying. not......a very solid stance, but, whatever. i suspect you'll die on that hill, so good on ya.

Originally posted by leonidas
well, if you think it's so easy to find the scan, be my guest.....thor 349, right near the end, odin explicitly stating surtur destroyed a galaxy. what's more, he even references the galactic heart. i'm not scanning the issue, but here is odin's direct quote:

"a galaxy he destroyed to create the forge wherein he might remake the sword of doom."

pretty damn clear imo.

so, now you have (a) surtur stating he has power to destroy a galaxy. (b) odin saying he HAS destroyed a galaxy and (c) proof he destroyed a galactic core. not much of a stretch to assume both odin and surtur were telling the truth considering what's he's shown, and considering that he was attempting to destroy the universe. far more logical to suppose they were than to wilfully call them false narrators. there's also (d) your proof is not evidence that he did not ALSO destroy the galaxy with his attack. it stands to reason actually that the destruction would move outwards and spread. anywho, i'm thinking most would likely believe surtur did indeed destroy the galaxy, but maybe i'm wrong. regardless, you're only reason for NOT accepting it is because in your opinion both surtur and odin are lying. not......a very solid stance, but, whatever. i suspect you'll die on that hill, so good on ya.

1) Regarding a) here is the FULL scan in context, not just two panels :

So he was harnessing all that power...........to destroy the Earth...........by melting it's polar ice caps! FAIL. So much for "galaxy busting" Also he said he had the power of "one thousand suns". Sentry has the power of "one million exploding suns". According to you, going by statements : Sentry>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Surtur.
2) Regarding b) ON PANEL he destroyed a galactic core. No more or less than that
3) Odin's retelling/summary of 2/b

Now you see why I'm a skeptic?

EDIT :
Handbook Entry confirms what happened on panel :

He destroyed a galactic core.

Originally posted by zopzop
1) Regarding a) here is the FULL scan in context, not just two panels :

So he was harnessing all that power...........to destroy the Earth...........by melting it's polar ice caps! FAIL. So much for "galaxy busting" Also he said he had the power of "one thousand suns". Sentry has the power of "one million exploding suns". According to you, going by statements : Sentry>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Surtur.
2) Regarding b) ON PANEL he destroyed a galactic core. No more or less than that
3) Odin's retelling/summary of 2/b

Now you see why I'm a skeptic?

EDIT :
Handbook Entry confirms what happened on panel :

He destroyed a galactic core.

cool.

regarding the sentry thing--lol. kinda predictable zop. anyway, if sentry was shown on panel destroying the heart of a galaxy, then was stated to have indeed destroyed the galaxy itself by a skyfather, was a threat to the universe, and had battled evenly with someone who had shaken the multiverse in a prior battle--sure, i'd believe him too. 👆

in the galactus/scrier/other battle, narration said they were a threat to the universe. never happened though, so.....hyperbole? i assume you don't believe that was true since it wasn't shown, right? there are....a LOT of those types of examples. like i said, die on that hill if you'd like but i'm willing to wager it's a stance that you'll back away from later on.....

anywho, have a good easter weekend my friend.

Originally posted by leonidas
cool.

regarding the sentry thing--lol. kinda predictable zop. anyway, if sentry was shown on panel destroying the heart of a galaxy, then was stated to have indeed destroyed the galaxy itself by a skyfather, was a threat to the universe, and had battled evenly with someone who had shaken the multiverse in a prior battle--sure, i'd believe him too. 👆

in the galactus/scrier/other battle, narration said they were a threat to the universe. never happened though, so.....hyperbole? i assume you don't believe that was true since it wasn't shown, right? there are....a LOT of those types of examples. like i said, die on that hill if you'd like but i'm willing to wager it's a stance that you'll back away from later on.....

If the entire Cosmic Hierarchy fighting Thanos with the IG didn't even destroy a galaxy, HTF is Galactus/Scrier/The Other fight gonna destroy all the MULTIVERSE?

I already told Horrificus the whole Tyrant/Galactus "destorying galaxies" stuff Thanos said could have been hyperbole because it wasn't shown on panel and when they did fight, no galaxies were destroyed.

anywho, have a good easter weekend my friend.

Originally posted by zopzop

If the entire Cosmic Hierarchy fighting Thanos with the IG didn't even destroy a galaxy, HTF is Galactus/Scrier/The Other fight gonna destroy all the MULTIVERSE?

Terrible logic, you know this.

Originally posted by zopzop

But at least now you see where I'm coming from. If you take the ENTIRE scan into context on point a), you'll see the "galaxy busting" was all talk. He did destroy a galactic core (stated and shown on panel AND confirmed by the handbook entry). So Odin's retelling/summary was just that, a quick yet not entirely accurate way of explaining what Surtur did to forge his sword.

Not hyperbole, bad writing. Horrific writing.

If the entire Cosmic Hierarchy fighting Thanos with the IG didn't even destroy a galaxy, HTF is Galactus/Scrier/The Other fight gonna destroy all the MULTIVERSE?

I already told Horrificus the whole Tyrant/Galactus "destorying galaxies" stuff Thanos said could have been hyperbole because it wasn't shown on panel and when they did fight, no galaxies were destroyed.

i almost brought up that tyrant/galactus battle. lol hey, i disagree, but if you're gonna stay consistent, well, i can respect that at least. but i WILL remind you of this at some point, should you fall off the wagon..... 😉

You too Leo 🙂 [/B]

thanks. 🙂

later

Good evening friends ...

That Galactic Core Surtur destroyed
is the Super Massive Black Hole at the center of every Galaxy.

Milky Way's SMBH is about 4.1 millions times the mass of our sun.

So Surtur's Galactic Core at minimum requires millions of sun masses to consider it as such.
Although, there are much, much bigger SMBHs out there like in M87 galaxy,
that bad boy is about 6.6 Billion times the mass of our sun.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Good evening friends ...

That Galactic Core Surtur destroyed
is the Super Massive Black Hole at the center of every Galaxy.

Milky Way's SMBH is about 4.1 millions times the mass of our sun.

So Surtur's Galactic Core at minimum requires millions of sun masses to consider it as such.
Although, there are much, much bigger SMBHs out there like in M87 galaxy,
that bad boy is about 6.6 Billion times the mass of our sun.

At the time that comic was written, writters were still using the words solar system and galaxy interchangably; no way in hell was that writter thinking about it in those terms when he wrote that comic...

If they had some appreciation of physics and the cosmos, they wouldnt write half of the utterly ridiculous crap that they wrote...

Originally posted by zopzop
That scan Horrificus provided proves nothing. It's just a [b]statement.

On panel we have Surtur destroying a galactic core. That's it. [/B]

Except, of course, if they are being used by him. 🙄

Idiotic.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
At the time that comic was written, writters were still using the words solar system and galaxy interchangably; no way in hell was that writter thinking about it in those terms when he wrote that comic...

If they had some appreciation of physics and the cosmos, they wouldnt write half of the utterly ridiculous crap that they wrote...

Originally posted by Horrificus
zozop is right! From now on, "statements" cannot be used as evidence in these debates! 😆

Except, of course, if they are being used by him. 🙄

Idiotic.

There was no galaxy busting power on display there, not even planet busting. Surtur was going to "destroy" the Earth by melting it's ice caps. 😆

FAIL.