ROTS Mace Windu Vs AOTC/ROTS Count Dooku

Started by KuRuPT Thanosi35 pages

LOL... So even though it makes sense that he did call for them since that is why he brought them... You'll go.. nah who cares i wanna fight the canonicity of it anyways. Doesn't make sense to me.. but hey to each their own.

Again:
I'm not questioning that the droids began attacking at the behest of Dooku. What I'm saying is that Dooku did NOT give the droids a verbal order to begin said attack in the film, therefore that particular statement/exclamation from the novel is non-canon.

That is all. 🙂

Originally posted by Arhael

Again, if Force users are so much faster, how can you explain fights of Jedi with Mandalorians and Yuuzhan Vong? Will you claim that Maul deliberately allowed Vizsla to punch him so many times? Or how Jango Fett head-butted Kenobi?

I was just thinking it's an inconsistency. And that maybe we will get an explanation at some point, like Mandalorians being unusually fast.

As for the deflecting blaster fire, I was thinking of the Destroyer Droids. They clearly shoot multiple fire simultaneously and we've seen Jedi deflecting all their shots since TPM.

In fact in the first episode of TCW we see Yoda deflecting all the blaster fire from Multiple Destroyer Droids.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
LOL... So even though it makes sense that he did call for them since that is why he brought them... You'll go.. nah who cares i wanna fight the canonicity of it anyways. Doesn't make sense to me.. but hey to each their own.

The Highest Form of Canonicity makes it perfectly clear that he didn't "Shout" for them. There's many many inconsistencies in the novel and movie version of that fight.

Follow the version you like, but the movie version is the final and true canon.

Having foresight and precog is one thing, but reacting to what you foresee coming is another. It probably would not require superhuman speed to react to a single blaster bolt if you are able to sense it is coming before it is fired, but to react to even three blaster bolts that are fired one right after another that are coming from different directions, would require you to have superhuman speed to deflect them. You would not neccessarily require speed to see things before they happen, but in order to react to things that are coming at you in great speed, would require that you move your body with sufficient speed in order to properly react to them. Throughout the mythos, we have seen jedi block multiple blaster bolts simultaneously. Yes force users do have superhuman speed.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
You would not neccessarily require speed to see things before they happen, but in order to react to things that are coming at you in great speed, would require that you move your body with sufficient speed in order to properly react to them.

Well, depending on how advanced your precog is. And seeing that jedi seem to only instantly react right before blasters bolts make contact, it doesn't seem as if their precog gives them a huge amount of time to prepare themselves.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I was just thinking it's an inconsistency. And that maybe we will get an explanation at some point, like Mandalorians being unusually fast.

As for the deflecting blaster fire, I was thinking of the Destroyer Droids. They clearly shoot multiple fire simultaneously and we've seen Jedi deflecting all their shots since TPM.


Out of curiosity checked a video with droidekas:
YouTube video
Two cannons in each arm but bolts are so close that can be deflected like a single bolt. Also, their arms take turns, when shooting. In other words those droids have inefficient programming. If they were shooting simultaneously with both arms, chances to overwhelm Jedi would be much higher.

Anyway, you can see that Qui-Gon and Kenobi were able to defend without superhuman speed. Also, if their speed was slowed down for viewers, logically droideka's shooting speed would be slower as well.

Droideka makes around 2-3 shots per second in all movie scenes. In real life, provided you have almost weightless weapon, you can make up to 8 short movements per second, so again no need for super-human speed. 🙂


In fact in the first episode of TCW we see Yoda deflecting all the blaster fire from Multiple Destroyer Droids.

Yoda was dodging nearly all blaster bolts. Check this:
YouTube video
As you can see Yoda jumps split second before the tank and other droids shoot at him. So, again anticipation and reaction in advance.

Originally posted by Arhael

As you can see Yoda jumps split second before the tank and other droids shoot at him. So, again anticipation and reaction in advance.

Hmm.. What about when the Destroyer Droids attack him? There's like a dozen of them. Even if they each shoot one shot at a time, that's still at least 10 shots per second he'd have to deflect. And he wasn't jumping at all at that point. He was stationery.

I'm sure they don't have Superman/Flash type Invisible speed. But I'm sure they're faster than regular humans. Like Spider-Man/Wolverine type speed.

After all if they can run and super fast, that means they can move their legs that fast, then why would their arms be any different?

Oh and Jango's and Viszla's armour could enhance their strength and speed maybe?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Hmm.. What about when the Destroyer Droids attack him? There's like a dozen of them. Even if they each shoot one shot at a time, that's still at least 10 shots per second he'd have to deflect. And he wasn't jumping at all at that point. He was stationery.

I'm sure they don't have Superman/Flash type Invisible speed. But I'm sure they're faster than regular humans. Like Spider-Man/Wolverine type speed.

After all if they can run and super fast, that means they can move their legs that fast, then why would their arms be any different?

Oh and Jango's and Viszla's armour could enhance their strength and speed maybe?


Saw the whole scene. At one point all droids shoot at Yoda. And it's not just that nearly all shots are off target, Yoda even had time to turn his had around and look how some boulders fall. I would expect more intensive movements from Yoda in that situation but at one point he simply runs between droids and they all miss. So, yeah. From that scene you can assume that the scene was slowed down or droids had some of the lamest programming SW universe has ever demonstrated. 🙂

When normal human run or jump, they are heavily slowed by weight. But hands are much lighter and a punch can accelerate to around speed of sound for a very short distance. And, if a punch can reach such enormous speed, imagine how high human would be able to jump, if they were super-strong or super-lightweight. So, with same logic Force users should be able to move hands faster as well but this speed difference is almost neglegtable considering that hands are very light anyway.

As of Mandalorian armor enhancing strength and speed. Dude, you are influenced by Iron Man 3!

Originally posted by Arhael

As of Mandalorian armor enhancing strength and speed. Dude, you are influenced by Iron Man 3!

LOL just thought that might be confirmed one day, because it would make more sense. And make the Jedi seem less lame having trouble fighting them.

Are we finally settled here... Mace wins pretty much everytime? Good

Not really.

not really what? You believe Dooku can take a majority?

Yeah.

based on what? hope and fantasy?

Based on individual performances against the same opponents and respective force feats.

So fan fiction... against which common opponents are you referring to? I'm just curious because Mace has the Superior battle feats... So i'm curious which ones you believe make Dooku the favorite.

Bulq, Ventress and Grievous comes to mind.

We've been through all the arguments countless times KT. Go back and read them.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Bulq, Ventress and Grievous comes to mind.

So nothing of great significance then? Somebody Mace didn't want to kill.. another person that was of little significance to Mace and could never beat him... and lastly somebody Mace beat but didn't do as well against because he didn't train him like Dooku did? These are the best you can do?

Mace beat somebody superior to Dooku is every way imaginable.

Mace has vaapad and will be abl eto feed off of Dooku. If they were already equal at base levels how does vaapad not become the single deciding factor?

If they were already equal at base levels how does vaapad not become the single deciding factor?

Because Vaapad is not better than Makashi.