Unicron Vs John Mcclane, Korben Dallas, Joe Colton (G.I.Joe), and Butch(pulp fiction)

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I honestly love how people love to paint the inconsistencies of the 80's toon movie as some sort of definitive proof of ANYTHING reguarding Unicron's actual capabilities...

I'm sorry Focus, but this is pure bullshit. You never said which Unicron we are using, as even G1 has several incarnations, including a God of Chaos variant from the comics.

this is the movie vs. forum.

its ok, we all make mistakes.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
But hell, why stop there, even toon G1 movie. 'Cron stomps, as the Willises have no hope of doing any lasting damage. What, you honestly thought that Daniel's arm cannons on a buch of Bruce clones are going to make a difference? Reffer to New Jack's point, Arcee plogging a hole in a minor lube line took no less than 5 pinpoint shots on the exact same point in rapid succession. And thats from a trained and experienced sharpshooting warrior robot with millions of years of warfare under her belt, with a weapon beyond human weapon desig capability. And while under duress from the claws.

you are seriously the overplaying experience necessary to hold aim and fire a pistol. i guess i can post videos of children at the firing range bullseyeing targets but that would be almost as silly as insisting that it takes millions of years to master.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
And thats another thing, whats all this bullshit of the claws not being able to do anything? Does common sense not exist anymore? Are you telling me now, that the 'Bot's ran in all kinds of different directions to evade "harmless claws", thats absolutely perfect bloody logic....

nobody said they were harmless, just that they were defeatable. with the one exception of springer being pinned for half a second, the autobots proved to have them well covered. no on screen evidence yet to counter this.

i know its counter-intuitive for unicrons internal defenses to be so ridiculously delicate, but i didnt write the screenplay man.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Anyways, I guess it doesn't matter at all anyways, the Willises have no means to do any lasting damage anyways, even if they went ahead all guns on those suits firing all over the place. They have no way of knowing where to hit anything vital, even if they walked across it by accident, and before long, they use up the juice on the suits and slowly suffocate due to lack of oxygen.

you pinpointed the fuel limit and targeting capabilities of exosuits with no evidence? oh boy. well welcome to the discussion.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
this is the movie vs. forum.

its ok, we all make mistakes.

Ok, so the Prime episodes, and the entire Unicron Trilogy don't count now? Fair enough, but some clarification on your part certainly could never hurt.

And congrats on using the single most inconsistent version BTW...

Originally posted by focus4chumps
you are seriously the overplaying experience necessary to hold aim and fire a pistol. i guess i can post videos of children at the firing range bullseyeing targets but that would be almost as silly as insisting that it takes millions of years to master.

No, but millions of years worth of experience in variable combat situations is far better than a washed up boxer, a cop and a taxi driver. The only one who can say he has comparable experience in terms of military situations is Duke.

However, being in the midst of a 9 million year war, and surviving against better armed and armored fighters like the Decepticons in god knows how many firefights tells us absolute shitloads as to her survivability, which is literally thouseands of orders of magnitude compared to any of the Willis clones. Combine that with her knowlege of robotics, and a weapon more advanced that an Earth made Exo Suit using Cybertronian tech.... Not to mention that the pistol your trying to dowplay due to it's size actually laid waste to several Sharkticons on it's own. Understand that the size of a weapon does not always determine it's effectiveness and destructive capability. if size was all that mattered, then Megatron would have basically ammounted to a pop-gun, when we know that is not the case.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
nobody said they were harmless, just that they were defeatable. with the one exception of springer being pinned for half a second, the autobots proved to have them well covered. no on screen evidence yet to counter this.

They had them covered? They were running from them! of the two times that they had to stand their ground and shoot, the first time was because Daniel tripped and fell over, and the second was because they were surrounded and were wildly shooting in a desperate hope not to get nailed by the things, and fortunately, the matrix energy happened to rip through Unicron at that very moment. Don't attempt to try and cover that as the tenticles being weak.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
i know its counter-intuitive for unicrons internal defenses to be so ridiculously delicate, but i didnt write the screenplay man.

Well, there is the plot to consider, but tell me, other than the actual Autobots managing to shoot two of them through the tenticle portion in a narrow corridor, what proof do you have that they are delicate and weak?

Originally posted by focus4chumps
you pinpointed the fuel limit and targeting capabilities of exosuits with no evidence? oh boy. well welcome to the discussion.

Ok, now I'm going to tear this argument apart with your own logic...

#1: You actually gave the exosuits targeting capabilities when they have none whatsoever.

#2: You understand that the exosuits are of Cybertronian tech, and built by Spike right, All Cybertronian tech runs off of Energon, a finite fuel source. I didn't say when the things would run out, only that they would long before the Willis clones can actually do any substantial or lasting harm.

#3: You gave the Willis clones knowlege on how to operate what is essentially utterly alien and exotic technology of the Exosuits with no evidence.

For shame.

ok so again this about the MOVIE since this is a MOVIE VERSUS FORUM.

there are 4 transformers movies to date, 3 of which are michael bay abortions.

i dont know why i have to go on explaining this, so i wont. just know that by your insistence to the contrary you are opening your retort with complete falsehood.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

They had them covered? They were running from them! of the two times that they had to stand their ground and shoot, the first time was because Daniel tripped and fell over, and the second was because they were surrounded and were wildly shooting in a desperate hope not to get nailed by the things, and fortunately, the matrix energy happened to rip through Unicron at that very moment. Don't attempt to try and cover that as the tenticles being weak.

how do you get to that conclusion? you said nothing to counter my point on the pinchers being easily destroyed. yes, they ran from the pinchers. they ran from many things 😬

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Well, there is the plot to consider, but tell me, other than the actual Autobots managing to shoot two of them through the tenticle portion in a narrow corridor, what proof do you have that they are delicate and weak?

lol @ "2". you need to watch the film again

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Ok, now I'm going to tear this argument apart with your own logic...

#1: You actually gave the exosuits targeting capabilities when they have none whatsoever.

i did not. earlier in another thread i speculated such considering the telepathic bond between human and exosuit, but i never used that as evidence. i was referring to lining up a shot. does "siting" make you happy or do you need to play semantic games for the win? or are you just gimping the exosuit by saying its impossible to aim shots?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
#2: You understand that the exosuits are of Cybertronian tech, and built by Spike right, All Cybertronian tech runs off of Energon, a finite fuel source. I didn't say when the things would run out, only that they would long before the Willis clones can actually do any substantial or lasting harm.

nowhere was it said that spike built the exosuit. and again you have no way of quantifying fuel capacity, be it energon or diesel.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
#3: You gave the Willis clones knowlege on how to operate what is essentially utterly alien and exotic technology of the Exosuits with no evidence.

adjectives for the sake of puffery are fun, but the suits were built specifically for humans to operate. a 10 year old boy learned it without a specific instruction on how to operate it besides encouraging his mental bond with it. later he does a full-air flip, transforms, knocks down 2 decepticons, knocks down a wreckgar, fires blasters, all with NO instruction.

i can tell by your bitter and over aggressive style that you are presently defending someone's honor, but please form at least one substantial point before typing up another essay of nothing said. if you really had a solid topic-slaying point, you could end this thread with a sentence. not a scatterbrained dissertation.

That a 'Junkion', not a 'Wreckgar'.

Wheeljack most likely built the suits before his death at Autobot city, and probably built loads of em..

hmm i always thought that was wreckgar. then again they were all identical and interchangeable, apart from minor decorative differences. horns here, a mustachio there.

wheeljack may have had a hand in building them, as may have spike, as may have any autobot. its never been answered so we dont know. but one thing is certain: that was not human technology.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
ok so again this about the MOVIE since this is a MOVIE VERSUS FORUM.

there are 4 transformers movies to date, 3 of which are michael bay abortions.

I dont know why i have to go on explaining this, so i wont. just know that by your insistence to the contrary you are opening your retort with complete falsehood.

Oh stop whining over pedantic sideshows that have nothing to do with my original point. The point being that there are several versions of G1 Unicron. All I asked for, thread starter, is clarification as to what the one in this VS has access to. I don't think anyone who does their research should have to concern themselves with pedantacism like you seem to.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
how do you get to that conclusion? you said nothing to counter my point on the pinchers being easily destroyed. yes, they ran from the pinchers. they ran from many things 😬

Ran from many things? Inside Unicron? name 1 other thing... Please. 🙄

Originally posted by focus4chumps
lol @ "2". you need to watch the film again

Ok, 3... out of dozens of the things, in a trapped corridor... Your grasping for straws REALLY hard here.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
i did not. earlier in another thread i speculated such considering the telepathic bond between human and exosuit, but i never used that as evidence. i was referring to lining up a shot. does "siting" make you happy or do you need to play semantic games for the win? or are you just gimping the exosuit by saying its impossible to aim shots?

Considering the ONE time we see the reverse elbow blasters used in the movie actually fire, Danny fired several shots while "waggling" before striking a stationary target. The only other visible weapon on the damn thing never gets fired until the Season 4 Headmasters episodes... where he becomes Arcee's head... If you want to go an utterly ridiculous road like that....

Originally posted by focus4chumps
nowhere was it said that spike built the exosuit. and again you have no way of quantifying fuel capacity, be it energon or diesel.

Heh, you didn't pay attention then. Arcee specifically cited that the Suit given to Daniel was Spike's, And Daniel specifically mentions Spike explaining it to him. Now... We already know Spike has spend most of his teen and adult life with the Autobots and their tech, including tinkering and repairing them alongside Sparkplug, and that Daniel has spent ALL his life with them, And given that the Whitwicky family has practically limitless access to Autobot tech, And your telling me that Spike could not do it? 😂

Oh for christ sake, talk about scemantics... Are you now going to tell me that you think they have Gundam Style microfusion reactors with limitless energy? Please man... My point was, and is, that no matter how long the fuel lasts, it will be effectively drained long before anything noticable is done to Unicron. Your constant whining about how long the fuel reserves last does not actually do anything to counter this point.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
adjectives for the sake of puffery are fun, but the suits were built specifically for humans to operate. a 10 year old boy learned it without a specific instruction on how to operate it besides encouraging his mental bond with it. later he does a full-air flip, transforms, knocks down 2 decepticons, knocks down a wreckgar, fires blasters, all with NO instruction.

Bullshit. Read above. Daniel had prior instruction from Spike, whom, even if you DON'T want to beleive created the suits despite specific lines, he WAS however an operator of it prior to Daniel, and was currently piloting a second one.

He trips over, 4 times, including after said air-flip, and once inside Unicron, well after ramming through 2 unprepared Decepticons. Don't try to overrate the damn thing.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
i can tell by your bitter and over aggressive style that you are presently defending someone's honor, but please form at least one substantial point before typing up another essay of nothing said. if you really had a solid topic-slaying point, you could end this thread with a sentence. not a scatterbrained dissertation.

Sorry, I'm not going to compensate for your beer goggles.

Instead, why don't you explain to me how the Willis clones actaully manage to pull this one off without the aid of the Matrix, and lacking any weapons capable of doing more than marring his inner hull armor before they get absolutely slaughtered? Because seriously, playing your shitty scemantics games is getting boring and is completely circumventing the salient question. Especially considering NONE of these men have any experience in dealing with anything like this, ever.

Oh, and buy the way, it's nice to see how you cut half of my post out and didn't respond at all to it. Good job ignoring valid points.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Oh stop whining over pedantic sideshows that have nothing to do with my original point. The point being that there are several versions of G1 Unicron. All I asked for, thread starter, is clarification as to what the one in this VS has access to. I don't think anyone who does their research should have to concern themselves with pedantacism like you seem to.

what part of "movie versus forum" do you have difficulty comprehending?

you're just doing a lot of barking and posturing.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
what part of "movie versus forum" do you have difficulty comprehending?

you're just doing a lot of barking and posturing.

Concession accepted, if the only thing you can do is whine about irrelevant side points, then your argument is already lost.

Especially since your OP pretty much breaks the rules Impediment set in place with This. And this is why I asked for clarification.

Still, since you have seemingly given up and not answered a single other point at all, i'm going to say that Unicron wastes the Willis clones, because you don't have a single relevant point to counter it with.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Concession accepted

lol its a plague

"*BARK BARK BARK* concession accepted"

Originally posted by focus4chumps
lol its a plague

"*BARK BARK BARK* concession accepted"

Ya know what, I'm reporting this because it's obvious trolling and for no ther reason than to be a smart@$$. I'm not having it.

oh dear and i bought all these unicron party hats and dinnerware for the kids.

let me walk you along a bit and maybe you'll find your way:

1-the most common manifestation of trolling is name calling (see your last post)

2-you are likely not as big a deal here as you think you are.

3-until michael bay gets around to ruining it, there was only one cinematic representation of unicron and it occured in 1986.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
oh dear and i bought all these unicron party hats and dinnerware for the kids.

let me walk you along a bit and maybe you'll find your way:

1-the most common manifestation of trolling is name calling (see your last post)

2-you are likely not as big a deal here as you think you are.

3-until michael bay gets around to ruining it, there was only one cinematic representation of unicron and it occured in 1986.

I don't need someone who is pretending to be respectable and failing miserably to try and "walk" me anywhere.

#1: Incorrect, that is flaming, trolling is essentially baiting and failing to answer anything but to have a stab.

#2: Being a "Big Deal" is irrelevant. I've been here for 8 years, and that is also irrelevant. what is relevant is the debate, in which you are coming up tragically short.

#3: Again, not the salient issue, I know which movie you are reffering to, BUT, as I have said repeatedly, that is G1 Unicron, and there are many representations of G1 Unicron. If we are going by purely movie only visual representations, taht is fine, please make this clear. However, that particular incarnation is the radical inconcistency of not only scale, but of feats and capabilities as well. Do you see now why I requested verification?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
If we are going by purely movie only visual representations, taht is fine, please make this clear.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
what part of "movie versus forum" do you have difficulty comprehending?

........

This is like dealing with a brain dead monkey...

Nor does it answer any of the other points I raised so basically this is a dead thread with a person who enjoys worshipping Bruce Willis's..... Nevermind.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

This is like dealing with a brain dead monkey...

Nor does it answer any of the other points I raised so basically this is a dead thread with a person who enjoys worshipping Bruce Willis's..... Nevermind.

good god man how long and to what extent do you intend on embarrassing yourself?

if you have no concept of film canon then i suppose there is no hope for you to achieve reason here. cry?

Originally posted by focus4chumps
good god man how long and to what extent do you intend on embarrassing yourself?

if you have no concept of film canon then i suppose there is no hope for you to achieve reason here. cry?

I guess I'm used to dealing with people that know the concept of extended canon. Instead I get you and your bawwing about not putting any carification effort and merely point to the title of the forum, failing to read Impediments rules entirely reguarding the creations of Opening posts as a kicker.

Sorry kid, I've got better things to do that to watch you warble so far off the mark that the point is on the other side of the universe.

im not going to entertain this sillyness by spamming the title of this forum subdirectory which you still fail to comprehend. so really there is nowhere to take this.

i know you really really REAAAAAALLY want your favorite transformers cartoon to be among the original's film canon but its factually NOT. its not even in the same continuity. but go ahead and play clownish semantics games to try to backpeddle out of your fail.

"extended canon". lol nice try

DSZ...Its a movie vs Forum. Extended canon has NEVER worked here. Go ahead and try that in a Star Wars thread and see where bringing up 'Splinter of the mind's eye' feats gets you...

Originally posted by focus4chumps
im not going to entertain this sillyness by spamming the title of this forum subdirectory which you still fail to comprehend. so really there is nowhere to take this.

Thats because, as I said, it is IRRELEVANT. You simply refuse to follow the simple rules Impediment layed out, and spluttered your constant refference. Thats not my fault that you can't seem to understand that information exists outside of pure movie analysis, inluding the rest of the G1 toons that the movie is based in, charactetr profiles that the characters are based on, which are included in the movie DVD... But ohhh no, because the OP fails at research and preffers being a lazy troll, we get this drivel.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
i know you really really REAAAAAALLY want your favorite transformers cartoon to be among the original's film canon but its factually NOT. its not even in the same continuity. but go ahead and play clownish semantics games to try to backpeddle out of your fail.

"extended canon". lol nice try

Nope, I don't care if one character wins over another, as long as they do so legitimately, instead of the constant gimping and pure lack of knowlege nor desire to aquire that knowlege reigns supreme. It seems that, in my absence, many of the VS topics that circulate these days pretty much involve fap fests rather than legitimately trying to determine a winner at all... dontgetit

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
DSZ...Its a movie vs Forum. Extended canon has NEVER worked here. Go ahead and try that in a Star Wars thread and see where bringing up 'Splinter of the mind's eye' feats gets you...

There is a reason for Canon scale in Star Wars. Sadako. Like I said, I do most of my debating in Space Battles these days, where Analysis is regulary done, but is not the sole source of information, nor are feats.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Thats because, as I said, it is IRRELEVANT.

LOL!!! "the forum title is not relevant".

G1 is the only relevant material as the movie was birthed from that cartoon and not vice versa. beastwars and the rest of that gayness has nothing at all to do with the film cannon of the 1986 film

but dont let my trollish facts ruin your day. maybe you should report me again