*Sigh* For the FINAL time, Will you guys RE-READ My previously ignored points, which I very helpfully reposted in the quotes above? They are ALL from the MOVIE!
I never denied that rule, even if I didnt know about it, all I did with that first point was try to clarify, What else needs to be said Rob?
go back to the drawing board, take out all the canon-fallacies, cease your ridiculous pretend-moderater routine, take out all the childish name calling, proof read, and present a rational argument to suit your case against the McPocalypse.
right now you just look like a screaming infant who had his binky taken away.
Originally posted by focus4chumps
go back to the drawing board, take out all the canon-fallacies, cease your ridiculous pretend-moderater routine, take out all the childish name calling, proof read, and present a rational argument to suit your case against the McPocalypse.right now you just look like a screaming infant who had his binky taken away.
No Focus, There is no canon fallacy, because that point is gone, I dropped it way back, and you dug it back up.
The name calling started ONLY when you decided it was fun to try and be a smart ass.
Every other point raised, which you failed to adress repeatedly now, still stand, my question to you now is, why won't you address them?
So far, the Willis clones either get eviscerated, or suffocate. Make a rebuttal now, please.
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
No Focus, There is no canon fallacy, because that point is gone, I dropped it way back, and you dug it back up.
no, you were proven wrong, continued arguing into the ground for 2 pages, and THEN said you apparently dropped it
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
The name calling started ONLY when you decided it was fun to try and be a smart ass.
hypocricy at its finest. you gonna report me again? baby
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Every other point raised, which you failed to adress repeatedly now, still stand, my question to you now is, why won't you address them?
i can't be bothered to filter through your many fail posts since they were blown to pieces. if there were kernals of valid points which were casualties, then maybe its time you presented a cool-headed rational post instead of "read through my 3 pages of raging butthurt"
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
So far, the Willis clones either get eviscerated, or suffocate. Make a rebuttal now, please.
evidence please
Originally posted by focus4chumps
no, you were proven wrong, continued arguing into the ground for 2 pages, and THEN said you apparently dropped it
No, SG actually showed me in the rules were it was, because I hadn't seen it. Once I read it properly, THEN I dropped it, and you did nothing at all, so don't claim credit for that one.
Originally posted by focus4chumps
hypocricy at its finest. you gonna report me again? baby
Right, whatever floats your boat, helps you sleep, ect ect.
Originally posted by focus4chumps
i can't be bothered to filter through your many fail posts since they were blown to pieces. if there were kernals of valid points which were casualties, then maybe its time you presented a cool-headed rational post instead of "read through my 3 pages of raging butthurt"
Your the one who failed to address points, the only one you focused on was because I had made a mistake, that doesnt exclude you from debating the rest of the points and throw around ad hominem. I already quoted the points, read them.
Originally posted by focus4chumps
evidence please
The claws for one, in which was able to pierce Unicrons inner hull armor, and caused enough fear in Transformers to cause them to flee. The suffocation happens when they run out of juice, unles your going to go "ACT OF R.O.B" and jury rig the things with everlasting generators.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
How would they get eviscerated or suffocated...? Those very fragile breakable pincers that were only present in one little section of Unicron's fragile innards?
Uhm, no, those "frail" pincers had chased them a considerable distance, especially considering the whitewash they got, and they were still getting swarmed elsewhere when the Matrix "Detonated".
And read above for the suffocation thing.
They ran from many things... Willises dont run much, by screenfeats. Especially one could imagine, with in 4 exosuits.
Lots of things penetrated Unicrons hull armour:
*Swoop's missiles,
*Sludge's tail whacking it,
*Slags firebreath,
*Grimlock's kicks,
*random blaster fire,
*Galvatron being thrown through it...
...it looked pretty old/brittle. (Which figures given Unicron's age in pretty much all continuity we discussed)
The white wash they got was water exploding out from the walls when Arcee's pistol shot through one of the walls, was it not?
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
They ran from many things... Willises dont run much, by screenfeats. Especially one could imagine, with in 4 exosuits.
Lots of things penetrated Unicrons hull armour:*Swoop's missiles,
*Sludge's tail whacking it,
*Slags firebreath,
*Grimlock's kicks,
*random blaster fire,
*Galvatron being thrown through it...
...it looked pretty old/brittle. (Which figures given Unicron's age in pretty much all continuity we discussed)
The white wash they got was water exploding out from the walls when Arcee's pistol shot through one of the walls, was it not?
Ok, now lets get the damage/firepowercontradiction schenanigans underway eh?
The Dinobots, who create earthquakes and stop tidal waves effortlessly, and are perhaps the most OP individual transformers ever, right? but they somehow get tanked by an exploding plane...
Outside of Arcee managing to rupture a fluid line with 5 shots to the exact same spot, the only other being that managed to do anything noticable was galvatron, a known Planet Killer, and even his shots bounced off Unicrons outer armor like nothing.
THEN, we have the one unbeleivable feat, we have Moonbase 2 exploding INSIDE Unicron, without any effect whatsoever.
Hmmmmmm are you citing non movie feats again? Yes I think you are.... inconsistencies aside, we have to go with what was seen in the movie, and in the movie only...
We saw them get their asses handed to them (save slag) by Devastator...that was pretty much their top feat in the movie.
Im sorry, but Galvatron killed how many planets in the movie? The point is he was thrown through this old armour.
Unicron was in Planet mode and much of the explosive energy was dissipated outside of the open obviously-designed-tough maw, as seen in the movie, leaving loads of debris/energy that took moments to clear.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Hmmmmmm are you citing non movie feats again? Yes I think you are.... inconsistencies aside, we have to go with what was seen in the movie, and in the movie only...We saw them get their asses handed to them (save slag) by Devastator...that was pretty much their top feat in the movie.
Im sorry, but Galvatron killed how many planets in the movie? The point is he was thrown through this old armour.
Unicron was in Planet mode and much of the explosive energy was dissipated outside of the open obviously-designed-tough maw, as seen in the movie, leaving loads of debris/energy that took moments to clear.
Ignoring the unresponsive OP for a moment.
Even if I remove the stuff from the toons, of which the Movie is a part of, but aside... Devastator handidly kicked arse over most of the DBots solo, and if they had stayed where they were on Unicron, they all would have been oneshotted, a simple clench of the fist forced them to retreat.
The point is that that throw was plot induced by a freshly juiced up Rodimus Prime.
Uhm no, if you look, MB2 was already inside Unicron at the time of detonation. Right at the moment of detonaton is when the last of the curvature dissapears, all thats left is crumbled crust and mantle. The vast majority was already inside. I'll admit that the animation for MB2 going down was faster than either MB1 or Lithone's demise, but it is clear to me.
Imagine the damage they could have done inside...
With respect..So? If Unicrons armour was uber tough, wouldnt Galvatron smashed all over Galvatron's inner walls, if it was all down to Rodimus' temporary crack binge strength? But no it gave away like dry wall...
Yes, not arguing with the fact that it was inside Unicron, but the mouth was open, the energy dissipated/escaped.
All we can do is conclude in either case, is that Unicron was tougher in Planet mode than Robot mode....
his armor was meant for external defense. unicron was not constructed to have a war going on in his liver. he had the means to re-collect runaways easily but an armed platoon is something different as the movie proved.
his insides are obviously relatively tender if walls can collapse from shooting with a pistol or throwing a hunk of metal at it. to deny this is clown dancing in its purest form.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Imagine the damage they could have done inside...
Yes, but their damage output FAR outshines anything the Willises could EVER do, so this is a moot point.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
With respect..So? If Unicrons armour was uber tough, wouldnt Galvatron smashed all over Galvatron's inner walls, if it was all down to Rodimus' temporary crack binge strength? But no it gave away like dry wall...
Except that crack binge was literally Unicron's kryptonite on roids.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Yes, not arguing with the fact that it was inside Unicron, but the mouth was open, the energy dissipated/escaped.
All we can do is conclude in either case, is that Unicron was tougher in Planet mode than Robot mode....
Explosive force doesn't just vent out, Unicron copped more than 90% of the initial force to his insides, only the smallest portion of that would have gotten out.
Originally posted by focus4chumps
his armor was meant for external defense. unicron was not constructed to have a war going on in his liver. he had the means to re-collect runaways easily but an armed platoon is something different as the movie proved.his insides are obviously relatively tender if walls can collapse from shooting with a pistol or throwing a hunk of metal at it. to deny this is clown dancing in its purest form.
Yes, but once again, this is feat skewing. This still pretty much ignores the Moon Base 2 scene, meaning we are back to picking and choosing which feats suit our arguments, and ignoring the other.
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Yes, but their damage output FAR outshines anything the Willises could EVER do, so this is a moot point.
Those exosuits are capable of blasting holes in things just like the non-concussive forces of Slag and Swoop and Arcee's pistol.
Except that crack binge was literally Unicron's kryptonite on roids.
No. Because were talking about Unicron's own creation being flung through him...Not Rodimus throwing the The Matrix through him.
Explosive force doesn't just vent out, Unicron copped more than 90% of the initial force to his insides, only the smallest portion of that would have gotten out.
Energy dissipates taking the path of least resistance, also I already said that Unicrons a lot tougher in Planet mode especially in the mouth area - which has to munch planets..
Yes, but once again, this is feat skewing. This still pretty much ignores the Moon Base 2 scene, meaning we are back to picking and choosing which feats suit our arguments, and ignoring the other.
Nope. It was already addressed logically.. Unicron being tougher in planet mode and partial dissipation/energy following the path of least resistance.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Those exosuits are capable of blasting holes in things just like the non-concussive forces of Slag and Swoop and Arcee's pistol.
The only evidence of firepower we have reguarding the suits in-movie is the blast down on a hydraulic arm on a vat lid. Daniel's missed shots were never seen scoring actual hull.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
No. Because were talking about Unicron's own creation being flung through him...Not Rodimus throwing the The Matrix through him.
While the power of the Matrix is storming all around the joint?
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Energy dissipates taking the path of least resistance, also I already said that Unicrons a lot tougher in Planet mode especially in the mouth area - which has to munch planets..
And with no supporting evidence, especially in light of Megatron being able to dig furrows in Unicron's tusks earlier, and the tusks being at least equally as armored as the teeth, given that the tusks are the first things that dig into a target planet. This is still feat skewing, because for every argument one can make reguarding this, there will be an equally valid counter-claim to be made, because consistency is not there... We end up having to take one set of feats over the other.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Nope. It was already addressed logically.. Unicron being tougher in planet mode and partial dissipation/energy following the path of least resistance.
And yet, I have an equally valid bullshit weakness within that same train, If Unicron was armored enough in the front end of his planet mode to survive a moon boom, Megatron should not have been able to scratch a thing on it.
But he did. 😬
Firepower is firepower.
And Unicron is shown as being far less than indestructible.
Be it from Dinobot attack, Galvatron's particle cannon (causing explosion under Hotrod in car mode in the final battle) Arcee's causing a massive flood with her pistol, or even Megatron's clawing holes in Unicron's pincer hundreds of feet long before his reformatting...
But the damage-ability to Unicron was shown as fact BEFORE the opening of the Matrix..
Well it all shows that Unicron was damageable indeed, but that there was so much of him was his strength. And lets face it: We don't know that there wasn't some level of internal damage done when the moonbase detonated...likely there was, judging by everything else we saw...but his size was likely able to contain that damage til any self repair was effected...
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Firepower is firepower.
And Unicron is shown as being far less than indestructible.
Be it from Dinobot attack, Galvatron's particle cannon (causing explosion under Hotrod in car mode in the final battle) Arcee's causing a massive flood with her pistol, or even Megatron's clawing holes in Unicron's pincer hundreds of feet long before his reformatting...But the damage-ability to Unicron was shown as fact BEFORE the opening of the Matrix..
Well it all shows that Unicron was damageable indeed, but that there was so much of him was his strength. And lets face it: We don't know that there wasn't some level of internal damage done when the moonbase detonated...likely there was, judging by everything else we saw...but his size was likely able to contain that damage til any self repair was effected...
That is a massive assumption that cannot be made though.
The only way to reconcile is the fact that it is wildly inconcistent. This is why analysing the G1 Toons, and even the Movie should not be done. Too many liberties are taken with reguards to plot, artistic license and really, lets be honest here, it is generally a bad idea to use that in a debate of any kind...
I dont think its a massive assumption. I think it can, be actioned on that Unicron clearly wasn't made of pure indestructability, by screen feats.
Well are you saying the movie should never be debated?
Just because it shows Unicron as being made of material that was destructable? The movie was the most consistant that the G1 animated ever got.
I dont think it was inconsistant anyway. As I say: The thing that made Unicorn able to sustain such damage overall was his size. Taking out a building or even a few blocks can be done these days, but to destroy earth? Different thing. Thusly: I dont see Unicron's getting damaged as inconsistant really.
But if this thread isn't to your taste, then feel free to disengage it.