Savage Opress vs. Obi-Wan Kenobi

Started by Intrepid3711 pages

It's quite clear to me that Maul is Kenobi's superior. First fight, he wins, this despite circumstancial disadvantages, and the second time, when they stalemated, he was ''not ready' and held back as in did now want to kill him.

Maul did have the physical and long time "out of combat" disadvantages the first time. And he seemed to not be in the right mind set the second time "No, not yet, I'm not ready"

But Kenobi had the disadvantage of "not being in the right mind set" the first time. And the Big disadvantage of being out numbered the second.

It seems to me TCW has been making Kenobi and Maul out to be peers. Whilst it's also been making Anakin and Dooku peers (sort of).

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
It was a fight, just not a very long one.

Kenobi was ready to fight, and he had time to acknowledge Opress was there before he attacked him.

I'm not saying that's what would normally happen, but it did happen that time.

Kenobi should have been prepared for some one else, or some kind of surprise attack as he was warned by Mace that it was obvious he would be walking into a trap.

Kenobi was ready to fight Maul, which he wasn't even sure was real yet, not Savage. But yeah, he should have been prepared for the worst case scenario, but still, its an unfair fight to judge on. Its sort of similar to Vader killing Sids, he should of been aware of Vader, but we know Sidious > Vader.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Not necessarily. In the Slave arc he allowed himself to get beaten up in combat to buy Anakin some time. But when he stopped he was perfectly fine to stomp his opponent and all the droids.
Well that's where the right mindset comes into play. Plus he was prepared for it, and I don't see those slavers as a threat compared to Maul.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Heck Padawan Luke took a much worse beating from Vader in ESB, and yet got back up and gave him a better fight later even hitting Vader's shoulder.
Sure, but that was in the middle of the fight, not before it.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Maul was definitely with the greater disadvantages at that time Imho, having been out of action for 10+years and just getting new monster legs he had yet to adjust to.
And that's why I'm not declaring Kenobi's superiority over Maul in any of the battles.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Kenobi was a lot smaller than the brothers. We clearly saw he could maneuver just fine with all the flips and somersaults.
Ok I guess that's a fair comment.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I don't get what first time your talking about.

The first 2 times he faced Opress with help and was tossed around with the Force.

The next time Opress disarmed him in Lightsaber combat quite quickly.

The next 2 times he fought Maul One on One with no clear winner each time.

Then after Adi died he tried engaging both brothers but was clearly being driven back and he fled.

It was the 7th time he engaged the brothers that he defeated them. But even then the defeat of Maul was with the aid of pirates.

The first time where its just Kenobi vs Maul & Savage - after Gallia dies. The pirates happen afterwards.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
But yeah I still do agree it was a great showing that finally showed us what Kenobi is capable of.

But then I'd say Maul's best showing was probably his final lightsaber fight with Sidious. I doubt Peak Kenobi was > Peak Maul. That added to their 2 one on ones which both seemed able to go either way, is why I say Maul and Kenobi seem to be peers.

I think I agree with you on this one. Although I think that Peak Kenobi > or < Peak Maul can be up for opinion. And correct me if I'm wrong, but in the past I believe you agreed that Kenobi = Anakin roughly, so wouldn't that make Maul > Anakin?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
No you missed my point completely. Your saying Obi-Wan beat them once, so he beats them every time.

I'm saying(using your logic) that Maul was beating him in Revenge, therefore Maul wins everytime.

Opress stomped Kenobi in Revenge, therefore Opress stomps Kenobi everytime.

When Kenobi and Maul were stalemating Maul was driving Kenobi back the whole time, whilst Kenobi was using his defensive style to just survive. This also explains why Kenobi eventually ran away in Revenge.

So clearly the only win of Kenobi's was a circumstantial one-off. The brothers only lost because they were caught by surprise by Kenobi's offensive. Plus the cramped space made it difficult for the 2 giants to maneuver properly.

Also Kenobi is yet to have a convincing victory over Maul, considering Kenobi's 1 "Win" ended with Maul just fine, and Kenobi knocked out.

Maul was on the run from Kenobi +pirates. It was pirates who shot off his legs. Therefore Maul only lost to Kenobi + Pirates.

See how making up our own explanations work both ways KT 🙂

It was made clear in revenge Kenobi wasn't in the right frame of mind and not a 100% why are you using this as any kinda of proof of anything? Now, this is in stark contrast to their last fight.. where ALL parties were said to be at 100% and just fine. In one situation we're using a fight with all parties just fine... you're trying to use a fight where one party was CLEARLY stated not to be up to par. The weight of evidence isn't nearly the same.

Except Maul was not up to par nor was he as powerful as in Season 5.

Maul has always either held back or been hindered against Kenobi in TCW.

Kenobi is more powerful as well as time has gone on.. so that isn't a relevant point at all. Those cancel eachother out. What we are left with is weaker versions of both but being in the right frame of mind and kenobi taking out both of them. The other fight is kenobi not being in the right frame of mind and losing. Those are the facts.

Yeah? Prove that Kenobi grew between the Season 4 final Season 5. Also, Maul was not in the right mindset either, so there's that.

When were all combatants stated to be at 100%, KT?

They don't to be stated to be at 100% Temptest since there weren't stated to be anything wrong with them. Unless of course you're trying to get me to prove a negative, in which case, you should know that is a fallacy and requires to proving. They didn't have anything stated or hinted at that they weren't 100% thus we assume they were just fine.

Pretty sure he's talking about the Season 4 final.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Yeah? Prove that Kenobi grew between the Season 4 final Season 5. Also, Maul was not in the right mindset either, so there's that.

You haven't seen Kenobi progressively improve his combat performance in the many fights he's had? Are you even watching the seasons or just arguing to argue? Are you really suggesting Kenobi hasn't improved from season to season?

Might as well make different topics for different characters in different seasons.

Actually, no I haven't seen Obi-Wan improve. He ran from Grievous in S5.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Now, this is in stark contrast to their last fight.. where ALL parties were said to be at 100% and just fine.

No, I'm asking you to provide evidence for this ^ claim.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
They don't to be stated to be at 100% Temptest since there weren't stated to be anything wrong with them. Unless of course you're trying to get me to prove a negative, in which case, you should know that is a fallacy and requires to proving. They didn't have anything stated or hinted at that they weren't 100% thus we assume they were just fine.

lol

YOU claimed that they were all said to be at 100%. This has less to do with proving a negative (which isn't the case) and more to do with you fibbing.

Either prove your claim or reword it.

Ummm if it isn't stated that there is nothign wrong... then we assume they are at 100% correct?

Umm... Again, YOU said it WAS stated. Either provide the STATEMENT or admit there isn't one.

I just asked you a question.. if there isn't stated to be anything wrong.. we assume there is something wrong or we assume they were just fine? Simple question

Since we're in third grade again, I asked you first.

You made a claim, prove it or concede it. Then I'll answer your question.