Superman and Silver Surfer vs Thor and Loki

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Where do you see Surfer overpowering Loki? At best it was a stalemate. Loki found a suitably powerful mortal.

If Surfer folded too fast Loki would have left for someone else. I'm not sure if Loki could overpower Surfer but no, I don't think he ever intended to give Surfer his all. He was playing the innocent victim of a big bully.

Surfer never overpowered Loki, and Surfer was never portrayed as more powerful, Loki's servant actually suggested the opposite or close to it:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsSilverSurfer02.jpg

He felt more powerful than he ever had before, like someone was guiding his hands with invincible might or whatever.

It's very much relevant as Loki's magic was clearly on an entirely level to Surfer's power. He very well might have in that story actually.

Loki thought he won twice. Don't give me this shit that he wasn't trying to win.
lol at innocent victim. He attacked Surfer twice for what Surfer would see as no reason, and then started causing damage to the city. After yes, but not before or during the battle since he appeared as a straight up villain during.

So, Loki was holding back that entire time? He's like "Hey, you can match my holding back form, you should be able to beat Thor!"

His word carries so much ground.

That's going to happen to a character who gets amped. Are we assuming his power goes away and it's all Loki's power or something?

If Durok can almost kill Thor and Surfer at the same time, and this reflects on Loki's power, then Loki is likely in the high Skyfather range.

Loki is just as likely to give Thor a ton of powers then. High-end TP/TK, absorbing man's powers, and so on and so forth.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman's entire personality is built around the idea that he's a meat shield for everyone else.

He's not going to turn to Surfer at the start of the fight and ask for an amp, just like he doesn't turn to Green Lantern on a regular basis and ask for one either. He knows he has enough in the tank to get him through almost any fight he gets in to.

Exactly.

Nor do we have ANY IDEA how much is needed to actually power up Superman. We know that he metabolizes sunlight very effectively but we have no idea how much it would take for the Surfer to give him a noticeable boost.

Originally posted by curryman
Loki is just as likely to give Thor a ton of powers then. High-end TP/TK, absorbing man's powers, and so on and so forth.

Exactly.

Nor do we have ANY IDEA how much is needed to actually power up Superman. We know that he metabolizes sunlight very effectively but we have no idea how much it would take for the Surfer to give him a noticeable boost.

That, and Superman has as much, if not more stamina than anyone else in this fight, and is capable of outlasting almost anyone.

And if Surfer attempting to amp Superman actually happens, what's to stop Thor or Loki from preventing Surfer from amping Superman via interference or having Loki amp Thor (considering Loki actually does have a history of amping characters and even giving them powers)? And really, I don't think Superman is dumb enough to shout "I GET MY POWERS FROM YELLOW SUN" in the middle of the fight.

Let's stop speculating on what they would do, and just simply off of what we know the can do.

lol. C'mon Curry.

Originally posted by Dolos
Let's stop speculating on what they would do, and just simply off of what we know the can do.

lol. C'mon Curry.

You haven't read the forum rules, have you...

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
And if that happens, what's to stop Thor or Loki from preventing Surfer from amping Superman via interference or having Loki amp Thor (considering Loki actually does have a history of amping characters and even giving them powers)? And really, I don't think Superman is dumb enough to shout "I GET MY POWERS FROM YELLOW SUN" in the middle of the fight.

Thor being amped by the likes of Loki (Not Odin ergo RKT) is irrelevant in a fight against OWAW Sundip Superman, especially given he's had training from Mongul II that makes him able to take the dials beyond 11.

And apparently ya'll revised the rules to the exact opposite of what they were.

Now the rules make absolutely no sense in a debate fashion. Now it's a matter of behavioral speculation of fictional characters. Take a step back and facepalm yourselves for changing the rules like that.

What happened to feats meaning anything? Was it not convenient enough for the majority's losing debate record. Laugh Out Loud.

Originally posted by Dolos
And apparently ya'll revised the rules to the exact opposite of what they were.

The rules are as they have been for months, if not years now.

what

So, is CIS on or off?

Originally posted by Dolos
Thor being amped by the likes of Loki (Not Odin ergo RKT) is irrelevant in a fight against OWAW Sundip Superman, especially given he's had training from Mongul II that makes him able to take the dials beyond 11.

It is completely speculative that Surfer would/could amp Superman to OWAW levels, let alone have the chance to do so before being interrupted by either Loki or Thor.

Dolos has made me change my mind

Thor and Loki easily

Originally posted by Dolos
And apparently ya'll revised the rules to the exact opposite of what they were.

Now the rules make absolutely no sense in a debate fashion. Now it's a matter of behavioral speculation of fictional characters. Take a step back and facepalm yourselves for changing the rules like that.

What happened to feats meaning anything? Was it not convenient enough for the majority's losing debate record. Laugh Out Loud.

How do the rules don't make sense?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It is completely speculative that Surfer would/could amp Superman to OWAW levels, let alone have the chance to do so before being interrupted by either Loki or Thor.

His ability to replicate sun-dip conditions in an instant is not in question, especially when he's created black holes.

His feats>>Thor's feats.

Despite their biased match-ups, in which we don't know the full circumstances. Team 1 is composed of a stronger pair power-level wise, Team 2 just has attacks that one member of team 1 is vulnerable to...yet resilient toward (See Captain Marvel and Black Adam).

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Dolos has made me change my mind

Thor and Loki easily

Yes, because Loki is far more powerful than the Silver Surfer, obviously.

Logic./

Originally posted by Dolos
His ability to replicate sun-dip conditions in an instant is not in question, especially when he's created black holes.

His feats>>Thor's feats.

Despite their biased match-ups, in which we don't know the full circumstances. Team 1 is composed of a stronger pair power-level wise, Team 2 just has attacks that one member of team 1 is vulnerable to...yet resilient toward (See Captain Marvel and Black Adam).

Surfer's feats aren't >> Thor's feats. facepalm

Biased match-ups? How are they biased? Because Surfer didn't beat Thor or look better than him? Almost every single encounter Thor and Surfer have had suggest the two being equal or Thor edging him out. You can't throw that out because you don't like it or agree with it and in the same breath ask "what happened to feats?".

This whole "Well, Surfer didn't use his entire powerset or jobbed to Thor" logic is beyond stupid, especially considering Thor didn't do nearly as much as what we've seen him do in those same fights.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I get it, we're going to ignore it. Cool.

Loki thought he won twice. Don't give me this shit that he wasn't trying to win.
lol at innocent victim. He attacked Surfer twice for what Surfer would see as no reason, and then started causing damage to the city. After yes, but not before or during the battle since he appeared as a straight up villain during.

So, Loki was holding back that entire time? He's like "Hey, you can match my holding back form, you should be able to beat Thor!"

His word carries so much ground.

That's going to happen to a character who gets amped. Are we assuming his power goes away and it's all Loki's power or something?

If Durok can almost kill Thor and Surfer at the same time, and this reflects on Loki's power, then Loki is likely in the high Skyfather range.

I'm not ignoring anything. You said earlier Loki lost, now you're arguing that Surfer was overpowering him. Neither is supported tbh.

Honestly, I don't remember any of that and I can't find the issue on piratebay so agree to disagree on this part or you win. Whatever you like.

All those little remarks serve a great deal to explain how Lee viewed the character, that issue was heavier on exclamations then thought bubbles and narrative text.

It's been a very long time since I've read the actual issue but I don't believe he ever thought Surfer was going to be able to beat Thor, not on his own. Like it was said, what hope does Surfer have if Loki could not accomplish it? Hence why he amped his might significantly.

In that story, he was ridiculously powerful. Re-read it, look at how he was handling Thor. It was freaking insane; one of his best feats along with taking on Skyfather level Set in his own realm. Just like the barrier thing, it reflects on how crazy powerful Loki's magic can be.

Originally posted by Dolos
His ability to replicate sun-dip conditions in an instant is not in question, especially when he's created black holes.

Yes it is. Proving that Surfer can amp him to OWAW levels instantaneously, and in combat conditions, is very much in question.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Yes it is. Proving that Surfer can amp him to OWAW levels instantaneously, and in combat conditions, is very much in question.

A black hole>>>>the sun.

And it should be much easier to just power Superman up directly than creating a black hole would be.