OWAW Sun-dip Superman Vs Loki AND Thor

I haven't seen any responses to this in a couple of days.

Dolos, can I safely assume that, with the ability of Thor and Loki to remove Superman to realms of their choice established for this particular thread, you're conceding they win nearly every time they follow that program against him?

I understand some of your frustration.

The solution, however, is relatively easy. You just have to decide what your goal is and find the proper PLACE to put or find what you want.

If, for example, you want a chorus of people who will extol Superman virtues, and nothing but Superman virtues, and when you say "Superman is the greatest, bestest hero ever!" the only objection you get is "No!! He is even greater than THAT!", then all you need to do is hang out in the Superman Respect Thread.

On the other hand, if what you want to see is Superman beating some poor hapless fool down with the quickness, then all you need do is visit the "Character Ownage" thread.

Just make sure you do your visiting there on Tuesdays or Thursdays.

'Cause on the weekends, people tend to post Blue getting comeuppance.

As for what you seem to want to see here, I suggest a scenario matchup. One hit knockout power? Tendency to speed, ruthlessly blitz, use deadliest techniques? You're not going to lightly find that with Superman, not even in Our Worlds at War.

And most post-Crisis versions of Superman show a good deal of vulnerability to magic, to boot, which Thor and Loki have in abundance.

No, what you want is Superboy Prime, not Superman.
That would take care of the one-hit knockout power, with relatively few people objecting. It might also, arguably, take care of much of the easiest versions of BFR. Superboy Prime has demonstrated some resistance to magic, after all, and he has also shown some ability to escape from other dimensions and/or travel between them.

Now you won't get a good percentage of ruthless speed blitz-downs from the kid, because that's not really in Prime's character.
But to take care of that? All you need do is say AMAZO, of Justice League of America, Volume 2, #24 with Prime's powers.

NOW you have a being with potential ability to thwart magic, potential ability to thwart dimensional traps,
capability and LIKELIHOOD to use his speed at the start of a match, AND sufficient power to get the job done with just a hit or two.

Amazo with Superboy Prime power versus Thor and Loki.
THAT would give you near 100% stompage in favor of someone wearing a Superman outfit.

What you have in what you set up for THIS thread, though?

Not so much.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Also, can someone tell me where the following is from?

It's the Marvel reason I thought of Vice and Virtue, because being in Jotunheim apparently had the same effect on the powers of the Human Torch that being in Dr. Fate's castle had on Superman.

It also potentially demonstrates that it is perfectly in character for Loki to Battlefield Remove (BFR) various opponents.

That's from Thor: First Thunder, a retelling of Thor's origin in the modern age of Marvel comics.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
That's from Thor: First Thunder, a retelling of Thor's origin in the modern age of Marvel comics.

Thank you, but I am actually a little MORE confused now with you telling me that. Because if that's a re-telling of today's Marvel, why does it seem to be relating an horrific END TIMES scenario, where Torch gets trapped for years in a frozen hell, and Spider-Man apparently gets flung off in space to his apparent death??

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Thank you, but I am actually a little MORE confused now with you telling me that. Because if that's a re-telling of today's Marvel, why does it seem to be relating an horrific END TIMES scenario, where Torch gets trapped for years in a frozen hell, and Spider-Man apparently gets flung off in space to his apparent death??

Well, basically, Loki ends up casting a spell that makes Thor go nuts before going on to wreck New York. Donald Blake's spirit, however, winds up breaking through the spell and restores Thor's sanity. After Loki is brought back to Asgard, Thor asks Odin to restore the damage he and Loki did.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Well, basically, Loki ends up casting a spell that makes Thor go nuts before going on to wreck New York. Donald Blake's spirit, however, winds up breaking through the spell and restores Thor's sanity. After Loki is brought back to Asgard, Thor asks Odin to restore the damage he and Loki did.

Wow.

So Thor killing Spider-Man really happened.

Alright, if Loki has THAT kind of power to affect people's mind, especially given how famously Superman fell under the illusion control of Max Lord, I'm beginning to think the team not only wins most BFR scenarios, but quite a few conventional scenarios as well.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Wow.

So Thor killing Spider-Man really happened.

Alright, if Loki has THAT kind of power to affect people's mind, especially given how famously Superman fell under the illusion control of Max Lord, I'm beginning to think the team not only wins most BFR scenarios, but quite a few [b]conventional scenarios as well. [/B]

Yes. And really, if people can't fly/teleport or breathe in space, Thor could really nigh-instantly kill a lot of people with that trick.

Thor's mental resistances are pretty spread out across the board, tbf. He has low showings and he also has some pretty high end ones as well. But to be fair, Loki's illusions are pretty formidable - he's the God of Mischief and Lies, after all - and he's been able to trick skyfathers and other beings with heightened awareness before.

Superman wins due to the double amp given to him in this thread.

@Blue

I really hope you are not trying to imply that a non mental blocks OWAW superman wont use his super speed from the start, because The arc shows otherwise.

If Superman does start with a speed blitz, most likely he wins more often then not/ 8/10. His mindset on how to use his powers in OWAW was actually to speed blitz his opponents, so I don't see why he wouldn't do it at the start. With that said, I don't think Thor or Loki will start the match off by trying to battle field remove Superman. It's not in their character to do so right away.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El

Blue

I really hope you are not trying to imply that a non mental blocks OWAW superman wont use his super speed from the start, because The arc shows otherwise.

You might want to convince your own historically pro-Superman moderator of that before tackling me, Salsa.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman won't blitz from the get-go.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
You might want to convince your own historically pro-Superman moderator of that before tackling me, Salsa.

Comic says otherwise.

He only needs to re-read the arc to see how Superman was using superspeed from the start of his battles.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Comic says otherwise.

He only needs to re-read the arc to see how Superman was using superspeed from the start of his battles.

I can see another problem right off the bat.

From my understanding, from nearly all the descriptions besides, Superman's main opponents in Our Worlds at War (OWAW) are Imperiex Prime, Imperiex Drones, and Braniac.

None of these three are thought of as conventional truly living beings.

They are robots or artificial life.

Superman would have zero compunction about taking a Drone out.
That's just destruction of a machine.

Ditto for Braniac.

Not sure about Prime himself.

But none of these are like the prospect of taking out a living, breathing human opponent. And I'll wager the OWAW arc, for all the impressive showings from Superman, for all his supposed ruthlessness and pure desire for destruction, DOESN'T feature him deliberately trying to kill living, humanoid opponents.

Show me Superman in OWAW blitzing some opponents that would be like a Thor or Loki and I might reconsider.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I can see another problem right off the bat.

From my understanding, from nearly all the descriptions besides, Superman's main opponents in Our Worlds at War (OWAW) are Imperiex Prime, Imperiex Drones, and Braniac.

None of these three are thought of as conventional truly living beings.

They are robots or artificial life.

Superman would have zero compunction about taking a Drone out.
That's just destruction of a machine.

Ditto for Braniac.

Not sure about Prime himself.

But none of these are like the prospect of taking out a living, breathing human opponent. And I'll wager the OWAW arc, for all the impressive showings from Superman, for all his supposed ruthlessness and pure desire for destruction, DOESN'T feature him deliberately trying to kill living, humanoid opponents.

Show me Superman in OWAW blitzing some opponents that would be like a Thor or Loki and I might reconsider.

I wonder if you already have read the whole story, but if you have not, you should. It was kind kind of cool.

In any case Sundipped Superman would not need to kill in order to win in here, He can subdue and pretty capable of doing so at super speed with out delivering a killing blow.

Think of what He can casually do to a character that is eating stars

Now let's see a non-sundipped Superman (who is more likely less powerful than Sundipped) and compare what He does with mental blocks and with out mental blocks when facing the same living opponent:

Here Mental block Superman:

OK Now, notice how he gets rid of his mental blocks right away he enters into speed mode

Now, think this but on a sundipped level and while I might think that a BFR to a magical dimension might work, the extent of his sundipped power is largely unkown. But Based on how non mental block OWAW SM gets into speed mode right away and adding the sun dip power level, I doubt the BFR might work in time, IMO.

Mongul doesn't appear to be fighting back in that scene. I think he was just trying to make him bypass his mental blocks. He did an amazing job withstanding all of that.

Originally posted by carver9
Mongul doesn't appear to be fighting back in that scene. I think he was just trying to make him bypass his mental blocks. He did an amazing job withstanding all of that.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Either one were trying to kill the other. HE was trying Supes

😕

How can you pretend that even YOU understood what you wrote here??

lol

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Either one were trying to kill the other. HE was trying Supes

That's what I'm saying...looks more like training than a brawl. Still a great durability showing for Mongul.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
😕

How can you pretend that even YOU understood what you wrote here??

I meant to say training

What is interesting about Superman in OWAW is an interview I remember reading Jeph Loeb a long time ago and he basically said this about Superman, "why doesn't Superman train? Why doesn't he use more than one of his powers?"