Surtur W/Twilight Sword Vs DP Tyrant

Originally posted by abhilegend
Haha, what? Now surfer was pretending he was in agony? Where did you get that from? FYI, Brevoort was the editor of the book where armbar happened and he personally sanctioned it. I would take brevoort's word over yours any day of the week.

So you believe that Black Panther is stronger than the Surfer (as you state that Brevoort said that)? Sure, go ahead, pls feel free to post it on the forums as proof.

As for me, I'd take the actual writer of the scene over brevoort or yourself any day. Especially on a scene that doesn't make sense if taken to some literal (and oftentimes self-serving) interpretations and would make sense if taken via the writer's interpretation.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Ravenous was actively stalemating surfer in a handlock just before that scene where surfer tanked his shots. You've to be blind not to see it. Ravenous isn't a high herald with currs let alone without it. Ronan oneshotted him without his currs just like surfer did and firelord fought him to a double ko while weakened with currs. Xenith pushed his shit in without currs. Its not a low showing, it just shows that surfer was at the same level after his "amp". Also good try bringing superman surprised and shot in the air as being oneshotted.

Surfer had the advantage the whole time, here is the fight:

-Ravenous grabbed his head and couldn't even pierce Surfer's skin with what looks like piercing energy attack at point blank range.
-Surfer swatted him away and blasted him, making him squeel.
-He blasted Surfer back with an energy backhand, tossing him back.
-Surfer slid down a hill with a grim look on his face,
-Ravenous tossed a multi-beam power blast at him w/c Surfer shrugged off like nothing.
-Ravenous sends his currs, w/c annoyed Surfer, Surfer decided it was enough, one-shotted the currs and then proceeded to blow up the planet just to show off.

This ended up with Ravenous who was always written as being confident (as per previous issues) about how he compared to Surfer being completely dumbfounded by what he saw and running home with his tail between his legs.

Thanos lasted against Odin longer than Ravenous lasted against Surfer. Does this "actively stalemating" have any bearings on how effective he was against said character? Not really. In the end, the results show the true intention of the writing, w/c was to show the Surfer casually destroying someone and striking fear in someone who was (just issues before) written to be his peer the minute he felt like it.

I mention the Atlantean incident because people can go into Superman threads and misrepresent the showing to troll other posters just as you're going in to troll ppl via misrepresent Surfer showings as of late (I mean, seriously, why such hate?). You're one of the more knowledgeable posters in this forum but this recent behavior really puts a damper in your credibility.

Originally posted by abhilegend
BP restraining surfer is absolutely a low showing. Beating ravenous isn't and I'm not sure why you think I presented it as one.

You cleverly write them side by side, with "not to mention" written with the sentence containing "lowest showings". You could simply deny the fact via your literal sentencing structure but your intention of downplaying Surfer post-Annihilation can be seen clear as day due to your recent behavior.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
So you believe that Black Panther is stronger than the Surfer (as you state that Brevoort said that)?

You cleverly write them side by side, with "not to mention" written with the sentence containing "lowest showings". You could simply deny the fact via your literal sentencing structure but your intention of downplaying Surfer post-Annihilation can be seen clear as day due to your recent behavior.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No. Both of these comments are worthless. There was no indication of surfer pretending in the whole comic. You can repeat it as much as you want, wouldn't make it true. That's why it is a low showing. Go ahead and pretend its not if that makes you feel better.

I disagree. One was an obvious trolling comment or one made with utter ignorance. Another was by the very writer of the comic explaining his work (making it make more sense in the process). You don't get to lump them together the same way you don't lump PIS showings with reasonable ones.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You need glasses if you think that's the complete fight.

That is the fight you posted. Of course there are parts of the fight not shown (such as what happened prior). But I described it as it happens. Of course, I'm sure YOU have your OWN step-by-step version of how it happened in your mind. Please post it and we can just let the others here judge for themselves w/c version they want to believe?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Ravenous was only on par with surfer when his currs were alive in both fight. As soon as the curr died, he became a ***** of surfer. This is actually laughable, read annihilation again.

He wasn't "on par" in this fight. Ravenous had one good shot in and when Surfer braced himself near the end, he tanked Ravenous' best shot like nothing. In total, there was a short back and forth and Surfer ended it when he wanted to. Of course, weakness exploitation was used, but that only proves that this fight proves nothing.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Completely irrelevant comparison. facepalm
Don't tell me you're serious here.

Actually, this comparison was simply to indicate that "stalemating" someone doesn't really prove anything about their formidability in comparison to each other and that the "stalemating" argument is really silly (and gets kinda misused quite a bit). What matters is how the fight got ended or how the fight was portrayed. Ravenous vs Surfer showed that at no time was Surfer ever in danger or pushed to the limit and thus the limits of his "amp" (if such existed) was never tested.

Originally posted by abhilegend
After destroying his power source without which ronan and xenith make ravenous their ***** worse than surfer.

Irrrelevant. My point was Surfer's battle with Ravenous does not prove that presence nor absence of an amp as it did not (at any time in the fight) really push the Surfer to his limit.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Thanks for the pep talk.

I normally am cool with how you work things, man. I'm quite the fan of how you oftentimes introduce (what others perceive as) off-the-wall logic and use research and knowledge of characters to beat others into silence. Always found that cool.

Your recent trend of misrepresentation (or at the very least misinterpretation) of "feats" isn't the way to go, tho.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not really. You can think whatever you want though. This isn't the place for it though.

I agree. Maybe we should move this to PMs?

Tom Brevoort claimed that Mcduffie "believed" that the physics of that feat by Panther were perfectly in line with real-life logic.

Obviously Brevoort's outright trollish comments regarding what Mcduffie "believed" about that showing hold more weight than Mcduffie's actual beliefs on the matter.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
I disagree. One was an obvious trolling comment or one made with utter ignorance. Another was by the very writer of the comic explaining his work (making it make more sense in the process). You don't get to lump them together the same way you don't lump PIS showings with reasonable ones.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
[B]Debating Format

[b]Rules/Standard Fight Settings
In most cases, the poster who originally set up the versus fight determines the conditions of the fight itself (ex. If a character like Superman is in a thread, it'll be assumed that it's the current version unless mentioned otherwise by the thread starter, the same goes with Thanos without the IG, and so on). However, in the cases where the original poster did not set down any constraints or conditions for the fight, then the match would default to the standard rules below.

The Battle
Due to some confusion, I will highlight this now. Unless otherwise specified in the opening post, the matches are one fight. The use of a character winning 7/10 is just to highlight a percentage or odds. There has never been anything in the rules which states there are 10 separate fights.

Prep time
Neither side receives any notable prep time before the starting bell unless the thread starter specifies it. Neither side may take any offensive or defensive actions before the starting bell. Planning is allowed and powers that are automatic or 'always on' can be up, but actions such as setting up forcefields, taking flight, or consciously activating powers is not. For example, Batman cannot shove together an 'anti-Avengers ray' before the fight.

Prep Addendum
Prep time of 10 minutes = 10 minutes relative to the character. So time manipulations wouldn't count for more time. Say Strange went back in time 2 years before the battle is scheduled to start. His 10 minutes would still be running, so he can't just arbitrarily give himself infinite prep time.

In other words, make prep relative to the character, not to their manipulations of time.

Standard Equipment
Each side starts out with the equipment that they normally and have been shown to consistently carry on them. For example, Daredevil would have his billy-club, but Reed Richards would not have the Ultimate Nullifier.
In a scenario fight, the contestants in whose city/reality the fight takes place are allowed access to any material resources they usually have there or of any team they're active members of, as long as they can reasonably get to them. For example, in a scenario set in the DCU, Green Lantern would have access to equipment in the JLA Watchtower, but not the Titans headquarters.
Beta Ray Bill would not have Scuttlebutt and Batman would not have the Batmobile, unless otherwise noted in the open post.

Basic Knowledge
Each side receives basic knowledge of the other. A good measure of this would be what the general population of the character's homeworld knows. For example, that Superman has a weakness to Kryptonite is general knowledge, but that he's Clark Kent is not.

Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.

No outside help
Unless specified otherwise, no contestant may call for outside assistance, even in scenario matches. For example, Captain America cannot call in the Avengers during a fight with Batman.

Leaving the field
Combatants who leave the field of combat on purpose forfeit the match. If they are removed from the arena against their will (being punched, thrown, teleported, etc.) and can make it back under their own power in a reasonable amount of time, then they are still in the fight. Obviously, if a combatant leaves the field and cannot return under their own power, then they have lost.

No Bias Claims
"Batman can beat Thor because he's cooler!" That's an example of how not to debate. We would like to see the rationale behind any claims that one character can beat the other rather than a claim based on popularity and subjective bias.
Also, we insist that all claims be backed up by evidence from canon sources. If you claim that Spiderman is stronger than Superman, then you have to prove it.

No Non-canon Sources
Non-canon sources are invalid for evidence. With rare exceptions, comics not in continuity such as Elseworlds, What Ifs, or alternate universes are not used for evidence in debates of a particular mainstream character.

A canon source is one that is regarded as being 'in continuity'. In the example of Star Trek; instances from the series and movies can be used, but books are definitely out. Comic book crossovers are usually unusable as they ignore common sense most of the time (DC vs. Marvel is certainly unusable in some cases in our debates!).

This includes JLA/Avengers. Canon or not, people just aren't going to agree on it in most cases. Besides, there should be plenty of other comics with which to make your point.

Comics released strictly online or on web sites will not be considered proof in the Comic Book Versus Forum.

An obscure interview given by someone involved in a story arc is not proof to refute feats. Neither is a random post by a supposed writer on a message board, blogs, tweets, etc. There have been too many of these so called interviews which go against what's shown on panel. Especially when there is no dialogue to refute what's happening on panel. Most writers are clear with the intentions of the plot and story arc.

This principle extends to characters with multiple versions, alternate timelines, etc. Unless specified by the thread starter, only current-version canon feats are allowed.

No Mentioning Events of PIS
Plot Induced Stupidity, or PIS, is when characters don't use their abilities or skills to the fullest extent as shown before, even within their personality ranges, for the sake of the story plotline. It makes lesser powered characters an actual challenge against higher powered characters in the comics. Examples of PIS include Flash stories lasting longer than three panels, or Toy Man as a threat to Superman.

Character Induced Stupidity, or CIS, on the other hand, refers to any natural mental limitations that characters impose upon themselves and reduce their ability to use their own skills and powers effectively. Unlike PIS, CIS does not occur because the plot requires it, but because the character is genuinely that dumb. Examples of the CIS-afflicted include characters such as Rhino or Jar Jar Binks. Events of CIS are not exempt from debates.

Concerning Superspeed
It's said that the speed of thought is about 30 m/s.
Note that it's meters per second, not miles
Reference:http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/DavidParizh.shtml
(Now this isn't in stone, if you feel you know something that you believe is better, then go with it).

Amendment:

Concerning the Battlefield
Unless otherwise stated by the thread originator, the standard distance between combatants will be .5 kilometers in line of sight at the onset of battle, and there will be an implied "buzz" to signify the onset of battle. It will be assumed combatants are primed to go at the gun.

Also, all characters, regardless of where the fight takes place, or what universe/medium they are native to, will have full access to their abilities at optimum efficiency as they are depicted in their native universes. It will be assumed that each character fights as they are normally presented regardless of battle locale. This means that, for example, Flash will in fact have SpeedForce abilities if the battle took place in Marvel Manhattan. Battles will always take place on an assumed equal playing field.

Concerning Threads
There have been too many thread starters trying to change stipulations once the thread has advanced. This isn't allowed.

There are two things which can happen:
1) If the thread hasn't gone too far, past the first 2-3 pages, then PM a mod to edit the opening post to make the desired changes.

2) The original thread can be closed and a new thread made.

This is to avoid confusion and arguing in a thread. People will read the opening post more than they'll search through a 10 page thread to see where stipulations were changed.

Also, if you make a thread which needs edited due to spelling, grammar, etc then PM a mod for the correction.

Thank you and enjoy. [/B]

That is the fight you posted. Of course there are parts of the fight not shown (such as what happened prior). But I described it as it happens. Of course, I'm sure YOU have your OWN step-by-step version of how it happened in your mind. Please post it and we can just let the others here judge for themselves w/c version they want to believe?

He wasn't "on par" in this fight. Ravenous had one good shot in and when Surfer braced himself near the end, he tanked Ravenous' best shot like nothing. In total, there was a short back and forth and Surfer ended it when he wanted to. Of course, weakness exploitation was used, but that only proves that this fight proves nothing.

Actually, this comparison was simply to indicate that "stalemating" someone doesn't really prove anything about their formidability in comparison to each other and that the "stalemating" argument is really silly (and gets kinda misused quite a bit). What matters is how the fight got ended or how the fight was portrayed. Ravenous vs Surfer showed that at no time was Surfer ever in danger or pushed to the limit and thus the limits of his "amp" (if such existed) was never tested.

Irrrelevant. My point was Surfer's battle with Ravenous does not prove that presence nor absence of an amp as it did not (at any time in the fight) really push the Surfer to his limit.

I normally am cool with how you work things, man. I'm quite the fan of how you oftentimes introduce (what others perceive as) off-the-wall logic and use research and knowledge of characters to beat others into silence. Always found that cool.

Your recent trend of misrepresentation (or at the very least misinterpretation) of "feats" isn't the way to go, tho.

I agree. Maybe we should move this to PMs? [/B]

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Tom Brevoort claimed that Mcduffie "believed" that the physics of that feat by Panther were perfectly in line with real-life logic.

Obviously Brevoort's outright trollish comments regarding what Mcduffie "believed" about that showing hold more weight than Mcduffie's actual beliefs on the matter.

With respect, I'll acquiesce to the fact that this might need to be discussed elsewhere.

I'll simply reply to one thing and leave it at that.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Both of these are against forum rules.

Firstly, can you point out where we're not allowed to use writer's/editor's statements as a reference? I'm sure it's there (or at least SHOULD BE) but reading thru your quoted part of the rules, I can't find it.

Secondly, while I agree that using a writer's/editor's statements should NOT overrule clear on-panel "feats". But in any instance where the "feat" itself lends a high level of ambiguity, makes little sense if taken literally or has varied interpretations that few can agree with, then having a person of direct authority on the subject (such as the writer himself) could (or at least should) be used to break the logical stalemate.

huh? ss let the armbar happen. he verifies it in the following page where he says he wants to hear what bp had to say. here is mcduffie admitting as much:

Read the scene again and this time pay attention. The Surfer allowed the Panther to "restrain" him in the hope of finding out what the FF was up to. A panel later, the Surfer's assistant blasts the Panther unconscious. The Surfer is irritated because he wanted the Panther to talk, which he thought he might do if the Panther believed he had the upper hand. Most of the people who ***** about this have only seen a scan of one page, or have poor reading comprehension skills.

http://dwaynemcduffie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10&sid=c0e413d1c17b98365835088167195d0f&start=1830

and it's not just writer-speak as i said--it's verified on the second page.

http://imageshack.us/f/690/1797720scan0017.jpg/

clearly ss saw them all as friends and just as clearly he could have ended bp anytime he wished.

[csm]facepalm/[csm] @ the blatant ( but typical)surfer trolling ( in a thread he isnot even in) by the forums resident butthurt sycophant...

Anyhow, Per writer clarification SS let the hammerlock happen. The writers explanation is also supported on panel in the subsequent page as Leo shows. That should really be the end of it.

Lawl @failing to put a smilie.

Originally posted by ODG
Huh. And here I thought you were the second biggest naysayer that the orb helped Thanos: Glad to know we cleared that up. Thanos did use the orb to strike and blast DP Tyrant. Too bad you forgot that Thanos actually punched DP Tyrant with his bare fist (not the one holding the orb) and toppled him also:

So yea. Too bad you forgot about that. It helps to read the comic. Thanos sucker-shot Galactus. That's the difference. We've been through this before. The same way Thor sucker-shot Odin. Galactus threatened Thanos and told him to gtfo. Odin actually backhanded Thor and told him to stfu. Neither Galactus, nor Odin actually expected Thanos and Thor to have the temerity or audacity to strike them as it would be tantamount to suicide. Thanos never sucker-shot DP Tyrant or Odin. Sad to see you completely ignored the last conversation we had on this. Even sadder to see you pretend like we never went through this before. Your selective amnesia would almost be insulting if I didn't already know your m.o. Nice try. A Thanosi with the memories of Thanos admitted Odin beat him. Thanos toppled DP Tyrant with a strike but never budged Odin. DP Tyrant needed several shots to put down a weakened Surfer, Odin easily one-shot him.

Odin has a plethora of straight feats of personal power that are superior to DP Tyrant's. Which I went over and you completely ignore because they hurt your butt. By all means, keep ignoring them. Allows me to remind you repeatedly that you have absolutely no answer for em. Not classic Mangog. You were nearly warned the last time you kept ignoring that in a thread after being repeatedly reminded. You get one warning from me here and now, otherwise I will be reporting you for lying about characters. You don't get a pass on this, not after the last time.

Thanos didn't cheapshot Galactus... that is YOUR speculation on what happened to justify Galactus being sent flying. If it's not your speculation and a fact.. please post the narration that says it was a cheap shot. Because as it stands we can visually SEE Galactus looking directly at Thanos and talking crap to him... We see Thanos looking at him and saying fine you don't wanna listen and then BAM... WTF did Galactus think he was going to do when he was saying fine. Galactus is a genius and has CA... you're telling me he had ZERO clue that Thanos would attack him... Well then you're basically saying Galactus has no CA and couldn't tell the obvious.. Thanos was going to attack. We SEE HIM LOOKING DIRECTLY AT HIM. There was no cheapshot... In order to act like there was and it's a FACT.. you need to PROVE IT.. SO post the narration that says it was a cheapshot and Galactus wasn't ready. If not, just call it what it is, your speculation.

What's so hard to understand about this.... A Weaker Thanos clone with MINIMAL prep... Made Odin his b1tch. He made him eat out of a straw with minimal prep. With prep and an amp Thanos couldn't defeat Tyrant, and in fact, admitted he would be killed if he stayed and teleported away. HUGE HUGE difference in quality of foe. A clone.. yes a clone... made Odin his b1tch with minimal prep.. that is how easy it is to take down Odin.

As i stated before the ONLY proof you have that Odin is greater than DP Tyrant is Thanos not moving him when he fought Odin. Problem with that theory is that Thanos moved WELL FED Galactus way way way more than he moved Odin. So by your theory Odin greater Galactus.. yet we all know this is just false. Thus moving somebody more or less isn't neccesarily indicative of somebody being more powerful than another. See how easy it was to trash such a theory?

Galactus know DP Tyrant in an out.. HE CREATED HIM in his own image. He doesn't know Odin AT ALL and yet was still able to defeat him relatively easily. He didn't backdown from Odin nor was the the least bit concerned about fighting Odin. Shit he didn't even think it was needed to feed on a ripe world. Against Tyrant... he backed down the first time he confronted him and let him keep his herald. He made sure he fed ona world ripe with nutrients and hadn't felt this good in ages JUST TO FACE TYRANT. Surfer had to hurry to battle before they BOTH DESTROY eachother. His words. He never expressed concern about Odin killing Galactus or both being destroyed. and yet... even with galactus feeding and prepping for Tyrant.. He STILL lost. Against Odin all he needed to do was have odin one shot himself. That is the HUGE difference in the fights.

You agree galactus is above Odin.. we all know that and you admitted that. How then is somebody created in his image to be his equal.. and somebody who also beat Galactus NOT above Odin. Jesus H. Christ 1+1 DOES =2

Lastly, about mangog.. the character is still the same character. Just because writers have written him differently over the years and he seemingly went down in power.. doesn't mena it's a new character. It's just other writers writing him at this level which might be slightly different here or there. It doesn't change the fact that a weaker Clone.. was ordering aroudn somebody that made Odin his b1tch. Mangog knew his role next to daddy thanos. When he got out of line he was promptly put in his place. That same character has no issue fighting odin or attacking Asgard.. yet he won't even step up to a clone of Thanos LULZ

These are the facts that can't be gotten around and point to Tyrant being above Odin. Amount of feats don't matter in this case. Tyrant has appeared in 10 comics. Odin has appeared in hundreds. HUGE difference. Just because Wolverine has appeared more than Sabertooth and has more appearance doesn't made him stronger cause he has more feats. We KNOW sabertooth is stronger. Just like we know Tyrant is more powerful than Odin even with less feats because of less showings.

1. He was made in the image of somebody greater than Odin. that same person who made him was scared to fight him and backed down from him. Galactus never backed down from odin nor was he the least bit concerned about fighting Odin.

2. Tyrant beat a prepped and well fed Galactus.. Then we have a galactus who didn't feed as well or prep crush Odin.

3. Thanos prepped and amped for a fight with Tyrant.. yet he still lost and left. Thanos with no prep or an amp and was seeking Odin's help NEVER admitted Odin was above him and wanted to continue the fight and never thought about leaving. Shit a clone with minimal prep owned Odin... the real deal prepped for Tyrant and got owned.

4. Tyrant beats down a team of heralds that shit on the two heralds that Odin one shot.

ALl these are the few feats of somebody who hasn't appeared much, but when he has.. he was dominate and a huge threat to somebody like Galactus. Odin is no threat to Galactus and that was shown. Tyrant hasn't gotten beaten by ants.. owned by a weaker clone of Thanos and made his b1tch. Odin's gotten owned by Mangog.. do you honestly believe ANY version of Mangog would be a threat to Tyrant? Please. So what we have here is your failure to digest simple logical truths and come to a logical conclusion from them. Tyrant has come across as more powerful than Odin and doesn't have the low showings of Odin. When they have fought the same people Tyrant has come across as superior. no two ways aroudn it.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Thanos didn't cheapshot Galactus... that is YOUR speculation on what happened to justify Galactus being sent flying. If it's not your speculation and a fact.. please post the narration that says it was a cheap shot. Because as it stands we can visually SEE Galactus looking directly at Thanos and talking crap to him... We see Thanos looking at him and saying fine you don't wanna listen and then BAM... WTF did Galactus think he was going to do when he was saying fine. Galactus is a genius and has CA... you're telling me he had ZERO clue that Thanos would attack him... Well then you're basically saying Galactus has no CA and couldn't tell the obvious.. Thanos was going to attack. We SEE HIM LOOKING DIRECTLY AT HIM. There was no cheapshot... In order to act like there was and it's a FACT.. you need to PROVE IT.. SO post the narration that says it was a cheapshot and Galactus wasn't ready. If not, just call it what it is, your speculation.

Now consider Galactus/Thanos and Odin/Thor. Galactus threatens Thanos and tells him to gtfo. Odin backhands Thor and tells him to stfu. They're all facing each other. But Thanos and Thor knock Galactus and Odin down. When far more powerful attacks have not. Is it possible that the difference in effect was a dropping of their guard? Yes. Would there be any reason for them to be caught off-guard? Yes, because striking an immensely more powerful being would be suicide for Thanos and Thor (as proven to be when Galactus/Odin curbstomepd them). Do we know, for a fact, that they had dropped their guard? Actually yes, because if Galactus or Odin truly did expect to be attacked at any moment, they would have raised their guard and defended against their attacks rather than take a shot directly on their chins.

It's called arrogance in the face of what would be suicide for their would-be attacker. And the proof is that both Galactus and Odin have taken greater attacks without being toppled.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
What's so hard to understand about this.... A Weaker Thanos clone with MINIMAL prep... Made Odin his b1tch. He made him eat out of a straw with minimal prep. With prep and an amp Thanos couldn't defeat Tyrant, and in fact, admitted he would be killed if he stayed and teleported away. HUGE HUGE difference in quality of foe. A clone.. yes a clone... made Odin his b1tch with minimal prep.. that is how easy it is to take down Odin.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
As i stated before the ONLY proof you have that Odin is greater than DP Tyrant is Thanos not moving him when he fought Odin. Problem with that theory is that Thanos moved WELL FED Galactus way way way more than he moved Odin. So by your theory Odin greater Galactus.. yet we all know this is just false. Thus moving somebody more or less isn't neccesarily indicative of somebody being more powerful than another. See how easy it was to trash such a theory?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Galactus know DP Tyrant in an out.. HE CREATED HIM in his own image. He doesn't know Odin AT ALL and yet was still able to defeat him relatively easily. He didn't backdown from Odin nor was the the least bit concerned about fighting Odin. Shit he didn't even think it was needed to feed on a ripe world. Against Tyrant... he backed down the first time he confronted him and let him keep his herald. He made sure he fed ona world ripe with nutrients and hadn't felt this good in ages JUST TO FACE TYRANT. Surfer had to hurry to battle before they BOTH DESTROY eachother. His words. He never expressed concern about Odin killing Galactus or both being destroyed. and yet... even with galactus feeding and prepping for Tyrant.. He STILL lost. Against Odin all he needed to do was have odin one shot himself. That is the HUGE difference in the fights.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You agree galactus is above Odin.. we all know that and you admitted that. How then is somebody created in his image to be his equal.. and somebody who also beat Galactus NOT above Odin. Jesus H. Christ 1+1 DOES =2

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Lastly, about mangog.. the character is still the same character. Just because writers have written him differently over the years and he seemingly went down in power.. doesn't mena it's a new character. It's just other writers writing him at this level which might be slightly different here or there. It doesn't change the fact that a weaker Clone.. was ordering aroudn somebody that made Odin his b1tch. Mangog knew his role next to daddy thanos. When he got out of line he was promptly put in his place. That same character has no issue fighting odin or attacking Asgard.. yet he won't even step up to a clone of Thanos LULZ

Your arguments keep getting pounded and shut down by everyone. We all know that. We also know that you've every right to repeat them and make yourself look like a complete buffoon. What you don't have the right to do is spread misconceptions and misrepresent characters when you've already been corrected multiple times. You don't get to lie.

This is why I hate these kind of fights. Then Galactus gets thrown into the scenario. Isn't Galactus supposed to be omniscient? How could he even get sucker punched by anything less than an abstract then?

Feat-wise, Surtur /w/ Twilight>Surtur w/o Twilight=FP Odin>DP Tyrant.

...Or am I completely missing something?

^ A Thanosi ordered a shape-shifting Tarakkis to poison Odin, you nub. DUH!!!11

Originally posted by Raisen
This is why I hate these kind of fights. Then Galactus gets thrown into the scenario. Isn't Galactus supposed to be omniscient? How could he even get sucker punched by anything less than an abstract then?

Originally posted by Galan007
Feat-wise, Surtur /w/ Twilight>Surtur w/o Twilight=FP Odin>DP Tyrant.

...Or am I completely missing something?

Nope, you are correct.

Originally posted by Galan007
Feat-wise, Surtur /w/ Twilight>Surtur w/o Twilight=FP Odin>DP Tyrant.

...Or am I completely missing something?

Does having more feats mean you're more powerful? Is that a sound argument?

Wolverine has much more strength feats than Sabertooth.. does that mean he's stronger? Spiderman has more strength feats than Lord Marv.. doesn't mean he's stronger. How a character is portrayed means a lot as well.. not just feats. Feats matter.. but just because somebody has appeared less and has less feats doesn't automatically mean he's inferior. The Ultimator has less feats than mxy or COIE Monitor or Imperiex... doesn't mean she is below them She ws outright stated on panel to be above Mxy. In this case we have....

Somebody portrayed as being Galactus' equal and created in his own image. he backed up that billing by taking on Galactus and beating him. Galactus himself was scared to fight Tyrant and backed down from him because galaxies would be destroyed. he knew tryant was a threat and that was shown when they fought. Galactus had ZERO reservations about fighting Odin.. zero... Shit he didn't even need to feed or be as strong to take him on. Thanos needed to prep and amp just to fight tyrant and still lost and left. A thanos clone with little prep made odd his b1tch. That is how easy it was. He prepped for Tyrant and got beaten. They are worlds apart. Just because Tyrant doesn't have as many feats doesn't mean he isn't as powerufl. This is simple and basic logic my friend.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Does having more feats mean you're more powerful?

And personally, I liken Tyrant's ability to contend with Galactus via BSE-absorption, to Luthor using Kryptonite to defeat Superman... Or IW using Hyperspace energy to defeat Exitar. Superman is more powerful than Luthor, Exitar is more powerful than IW, Galactus is more powerful than DP Tyrant. In the end, PIS-sy plot-devices simply prevailed in those instances. Just MO. /shrug

Originally posted by ODG
Your mewling isn't just witless, it's been done before. Your CAPS-ridden tirade only belies your desperation. Sucker-shot has multiple connotations. Ambushing an unaware opponent from behind is not the exclusive definition. And merely facing the guy who hits you does not eliminate it from being a sucker-shot. So your inelegant attempt to force that dictate is dismissed. You never see the jawing and talking smack done in sports? How about Zidane's famous headbutt? Materazzi was jawing him and looking at Zidane when Zidane headbutts him right in the chest. Doesn't matter that they were looking at each other and pissing each other off tremendously beforehand in a physical game. Materazzi wasn't expecting it at all. You can blame Materazzi for being stupid and caught off-guard, but there's a reason he wasn't expecting it: striking a player is a red card, and would be virtual suicide for a team's chances (which it ended up being).

Now consider Galactus/Thanos and Odin/Thor. Galactus threatens Thanos and tells him to gtfo. Odin backhands Thor and tells him to stfu. They're all facing each other. But Thanos and Thor knock Galactus and Odin down. When far more powerful attacks have not. Is it possible that the difference in effect was a dropping of their guard? Yes. Would there be any reason for them to be caught off-guard? Yes, because striking an immensely more powerful being would be suicide for Thanos and Thor (as proven to be when Galactus/Odin curbstomepd them). Do we know, for a fact, that they had dropped their guard? Actually yes, because if Galactus or Odin truly did expect to be attacked at any moment, they would have raised their guard and defended against their attacks rather than take a shot directly on their chins.

It's called arrogance in the face of what would be suicide for their would-be attacker. And the proof is that both Galactus and Odin have taken greater attacks without being toppled. You can denigrate Odin all you want. But using a shape-shifter to poison Odin's drink has absolutely no bearing on Odin's power compared to DP Tyrant's. Thanos toppled DP Tyrant with a straight punch. Thanos didn't budge Odin. Actually, I have more proof: DP Tyrant needed several shots to put down a weakened Surfer, Odin needed only one. Odin also has a whole catalogue of greater stand-alone feats of independent power than DP Tyrant. So you can stop pretending that my entire case rests on Odin no-selling Thanos' attacks. It's just another blatant piece of evidence amongst many others that Odin is superior. Galactus forgot about DP Tyrant's plot device power. Literally, it's PIS. Plot Induced Stupidity. For the sake of plot, Galactus was rendered stupid in a fight. People have already explained this to you in detail. Others have already shut you down on this point. There is no need to belabor the obvious. Because DP Tyrant isn't actually Galactus' equal. You could argue he was meant to be, but he wasn't. That was easy enough to sort out. Sorry you were so confused on this. Reported for suggesting that Silver Age Mangog was the same power level as current Mangog. You don't get to lie about characters. And this is the third thread where you attempted to do so after being pointed out with scans to the contrary.

Your arguments keep getting pounded and shut down by everyone. We all know that. We also know that you've every right to repeat them and make yourself look like a complete buffoon. What you don't have the right to do is spread misconceptions and misrepresent characters when you've already been corrected multiple times. You don't get to lie.

1. You still offered ZERO proof it was a cheapshot. I asked for proof not your speculation. You're also forgetting that the evidence sides with it NOT being a cheap shot.. He was looking DIREcTLY at him and has cosmic awareness. Thanos words also seemed to imply he was getting ready to attack. All this points to it NOT being a cheap shot. If you have PROOF it was POST It and stop wasting everybody's time. If not, concede you're doing nothing bu speculating. It's very easy to destroy your real world exmaples as well. In a boxing match or MMA... they are in there and KNOW they are going to be hit and the person is trying to hit them... YET THEY STILL GET HIT. So even when you know something is coming doesn't mean you can get out of the way or can avoid being hit.. Doesn't make it a cheapshot or that they were unaware they would be attacked.. they were aware and still got attacked. Damn that was easy

2. Actually it very much matters... A weaker clone with Minimal prep made Odin his b1tch WTIH EASE. The real deal Thanos.. prepped for issue after issue trying to find a weakness in Tyrant and even got an amp to fight Tyrant and couldn't do a thing to him. You think that shows nothing? WTFFFF LOL. That shows a lot.

3. You act like the PIS you claim to be so matters... I explained in great detail how that DOESN'T matter nor does the case rest on what you call PIS. The case rest on what Galatus thoguht about Odin compared to tyrant...
A. Galactus was VERY concerned about fighting Tyrant.. he told anybody that would listen that it was going to be a tought fight. In fact, he literally backed down the first time he encountered him again and let him keep his herald. He mentions fearing a battle because GALAXIES would be destroyed as a side effect. Surfer.. who knows galactus and tyrant and felt tyrants power... rushes to the fight because he fears "they would both destroy eachother". Galactus made Tyrant in his image to be his equal. That's right to be the equal of somebody GREATER than Odin. You see all of the above shows how Tyrant is to be considered and how big of a threat he was. There was NO not a lick of a mention of.. ooohhhh Tyrant can absorb my blasts so it's going to be a tough fight. NOTHIGN like that. Not a word. All of the things I posted prove and show what level the writer wanted Tyrant at and where Galactus considered tyrant to be at as a threat. All of that had NOTHING to do with the fight and all to do with where Tyrant power level was.
B. In stark contrast to that... Galactus NEVER was concerned about facing Odin. He expressed ZERO reservations about facing Odin. Shit he didn't even feed on a planet near as rich as he did before facing Tyrant. Surfer didn't express concern like he did when Galactus was going to fight Tyrant. And yet, not even knowing odin well at all.. pretty easily beat him, even when not as powerful. So as you can see it very much matters how they were building up tyrant and what galactus thought about tyrant and odin's power level. he acted totally different when facing them and still got owned by one and owned the other with ease.

Please prove that he wasn't his equal or meant to be his equal. YOu have proof of this right? I have canon narration stating Tyrant was created to be his qual and made in his image. Just because Galactus defeated hiim doesn't mean he wasn't his equal. Matt Sierra beat GSP.. doesn't mean he's better or more powerful but shit happens sometimes. The giants weren't suppose to beat NE.. but they did. Galactus beating Tyrant the first time doesn't mean it voids canon narration stated they were wquals and Galactus created him in his own image. It means galactus won a fight a fight that took thousands of years to resolve anyways which further proves how tough it was and how close in power they were. So if Galactus is greater than Odin.. but a fair margin.. then how is somebody created to be galactus equal and in his image and somebody who is 1 n 1 vs. Galactus not greater than Odin himself? Seems pretty obvious he should be by default.

you can report me all you want... if you have proof that mangog for SA is a totally different character than other later mangog's post the proof it's an all new character. If not, then it's just writers writing them differently. nothing more. The point still stands though... a weaker clone was ordering around somebody that made odin his b1tch. Whether he was a little less powerful is irrelevant. Thanos was also weaker.. mangog might have been weaker to.. but regardless he was taki orders from Thanos. Mangog got uppity... and Thanos told him to shut his mouth and know his role.. Mangog goes ok my bad. That is ordering somebody around like a dog.. a character that in the past has made him his *****.

I love when you resort to the fallacy of appealing to the audience. Problem is, more people have agreed with me than you. I laid out the facts and many people said.. excelletn post and logical post. More than did your posts. So why appeal to the audience when they have said you're wrong?

Originally posted by Galan007
In most cases(inc. this one), yes. Feats are simply the most accurate way in which to gauge a character in the hypothetical versus battles presented on this forum-- statements, and/or implied power can only take a character so far.

😕

And regarding the blast that sent Galactus flying, it wasn't a cheap shot :

Galactus was looking right at him and was about to attack Thanos for trespassing on his ship.