Originally posted by EmperorSidious2You are ignoring the context. Sheev was unable to do so without Anakin's help hence his begging. He described the scene so there's nothing more to it per your own admission. 😂
Again who got thrown out the window. One on one windu was capable of stalemating Sidious. Described by that one single action he never pulls anything else for that sentence. Again no official answer to this question as of yet.
Originally posted by quanchi112
You are ignoring the context. Sheev was unable to do so without Anakin's help hence his begging. He described the scene so there's nothing more to it per your own admission. 😂
Isn't that what you do on a normal basis? 😂 Actaully sheet coudl have done it based off the film. Why would he go for tinn and kolar first if he knew windu was the more powerful or the leader. Why go for the side people he could easily take out but make him struggle with the the leader. He never goes into depth about it. So once again no official answer to this question, only speculation on both sides.
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2He already described the scene. If he described it then it's official as per your own admission.
Isn't that what you do on a normal basis? 😂 Actaully sheet coudl have done it based off the film. Why would he go for tinn and kolar first if he knew windu was the more powerful or the leader. Why go for the side people he could easily take out but make him struggle with the the leader. He never goes into depth about it. So once again no official answer to this question, only speculation on both sides.
Originally posted by quanchi112
He already described the scene. If he described it then it's official as per your own admission.
Describing what we see. What we see without any other parts of that scen being considered that's what we see. However when you take everything in to account yes it's very possible sidiosu threw the fight.
Let me ask you this, and I think I know why you've been avoiding the question.
If they truly wanted Palps to throw the fight and this was a big plot point... WHY NOT MENTION IT? You literally have no explanation for that. None. Think about it....
Why describe how mace figured out that he could beat Palps by breaking the window... letting the rain come in.. thus making Palps slow down the force speed boost he was receiving cause he was going to have to focus on maintaining balance on the wet floor. He perceived this through shatterpoint and acted on it. WHY go through this big long explanation on how he beat Palps... when in fact they believed Palps was throwing the fight. That makes ZERO logical sense that they would do that. Actually it makes less sense than zero why they would do that. Now explain to me why they would put that part in if there view was he threw the fight?
When you add the above with Lucas own commentary.. it's game set match bud.
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2Yes, we see Windu wins on his own as per Lucas' words. You're a fanboy who just makes shit up. No, it isn't possible nor logical for him to throw that fight. He lost and then manipulated after he knew he couldn't do anything in his current position. That makes perfect sense not your silly frantic wet dream.
Describing what we see. What we see without any other parts of that scen being considered that's what we see. However when you take everything in to account yes it's very possible sidiosu threw the fight.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, we see Windu wins on his own as per Lucas' words. You're a fanboy who just makes shit up. No, it isn't possible nor logical for him to throw that fight. He lost and then manipulated after he knew he couldn't do anything in his current position. That makes perfect sense not your silly frantic wet dream.
That's what we see without anything else being brought in. However bring in all the information and yes it seems pretty obvious that he could have thrown the fight. It is possible as he has that time frame and we have seen that he can manipulate right on the spot and does a lot better with planning which he had from the time Anakin left from the time the Jedi arrived. Also logical due to him wanting to convert Anakin. He sure was blasting him with lightning which was able to bend his saber according to the ROTS novel.
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2No, nothing in the film alludes to him throwing the fight. He feigned weakness to gain sympathy from Anakin in a vulnerable position. You have nothing.
That's what we see without anything else being brought in. However bring in all the information and yes it seems pretty obvious that he could have thrown the fight. It is possible as he has that time frame and we have seen that he can manipulate right on the spot and does a lot better with planning which he had from the time Anakin left from the time the Jedi arrived. Also logical due to him wanting to convert Anakin. He sure was blasting him with lightning which was able to bend his saber according to the ROTS novel.
Originally posted by quanchi112
No, nothing in the film alludes to him throwing the fight. He feigned weakness to gain sympathy from Anakin in a vulnerable position. You have nothing.
Yes there is you just choose to ignore it. That was all part of his plan from the beginning to get anakin a sympathy for him. Timing is very important. Sidious gets disarmed like the moment he gets into the perfect position the moment Anakin walks in. Coeincidence I think not.
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2He was trying to manipulate anakin but at no point does losing a fight do so. He tried to attack hi right in front of anakin and after he failed then did he change his tune. He was helpless and needed Anakin. Lucas already closed the issue.
Yes there is you just choose to ignore it. That was all part of his plan from the beginning to get anakin a sympathy for him. Timing is very important. Sidious gets disarmed like the moment he gets into the perfect position the moment Anakin walks in. Coeincidence I think not.
Originally posted by quanchi112
He was trying to manipulate anakin but at no point does losing a fight do so. He tried to attack hi right in front of anakin and after he failed then did he change his tune. He was helpless and needed Anakin. Lucas already closed the issue.
Your interpretation isn't fact just your opinion. Until Lucas comes up with an official answer to the question its all opinion on what happened. Again looking at all instances involving timeing, opportunities, and the fact sidious had a second blade on him shows that yes he could have pulled it out and kept fighting shows a possibility the battle was thrown. Also sidiosu was faking weakness and the novel says he was bending windus blade. Those things show that if he would have continued wimdus blade would have killed him. Helpless? 😂 He had force lightning and a second saber, he was t helpless. Lucas has made this a debate on purpose.
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Your interpretation isn't fact just your opinion. Until Lucas comes up with an official answer to the question its all opinion on what happened. Again looking at all instances involving timeing, opportunities, and the fact sidious had a second blade on him shows that yes he could have pulled it out and kept fighting shows a possibility the battle was thrown. Also sidiosu was faking weakness and the novel says he was bending windus blade. Those things show that if he would have continued wimdus blade would have killed him. Helpless? 😂 He had force lightning and a second saber, he was t helpless. Lucas has made this a debate on purpose.
STOP IT!!! Lucas ALREADY gave his answer NUMEROUS times. He said Mace overcame him. I believe the script notes he overpowered him. WE SEE IT THAT WAY ON SCREEN (which as you should know was directed by Lucas). His opinion is very well known on the matter. Mace beat Sids. Lastly, if that wasn't enough, a book was written on it (which Lucas careful went over and made edits to it). In the book AGAIN it notes how Mace beat Sids and exactly what he did to do so. Lucas' opinion on this has been stated numerous times. You closing your eyes and ears and saying he hasn't doesn't change what was said.
What we DO KNOW IS. Not one single place in the movie... script.. book does it mention Sids threw the fight. Not one place. You're coming from a place with no support or foundation
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
STOP IT!!! Lucas ALREADY gave his answer NUMEROUS times. He said Mace overcame him. I believe the script notes he overpowered him. WE SEE IT THAT WAY ON SCREEN (which as you should know was directed by Lucas). His opinion is very well known on the matter. Mace beat Sids. Lastly, if that wasn't enough, a book was written on it (which Lucas careful went over and made edits to it). In the book AGAIN it notes how Mace beat Sids and exactly what he did to do so. Lucas' opinion on this has been stated numerous times. You closing your eyes and ears and saying he hasn't doesn't change what was said.What we DO KNOW IS. Not one single place in the movie... script.. book does it mention Sids threw the fight. Not one place. You're coming from a place with no support or foundation
The all caps is not necessary. If Lucas gave his answer there wouldn't be Thai big of a discussion. Again describing that one particular scene, not involving Anyang else just that one point. Again overpowering just him describing that one scene, that one motion without anything else being brought in to evaluate. That's what we see however when all information and evidence brought into play it's obvious that there is a high possibility sidious threw the fight. His opinion is purposely kept secret on this matter. Again if his opinion really ended this debate he would have reassured saying something along the lines of I have said what the real answer is so there is no debate over this, or he would have given an official answer to clarify what he said so with that his commentary while useful, not meant to end this debate. Again with that it also shows he threw the fight because, sidiosu has spent 13 years around windu. He knows that windu is second only to yoda. So answer me this? Why would he go for tinn or kolar first when he could easily take them out later why not leave them for last and take the more dangerous one out first. Sidiosu could have seeing as in both the film and the books he has shown he is a better duels it and mich faster than windu and he did attack tinn/kolar beige windu reacted. Also anyone who says windu is a better duelist than palaptine is wrong due to how the novel says that even with 100% vaapad they were perfect stalemates. If the location had been different the battle would have gone on forever with sidious being the victor with his more powerful use of the force. That strikes another point in the lightsbaer duel he never uses his offensive force powers. Never uses, crush, choke, lightning push, etc in the films. Also the novel also states that sidious was bending his lightsbaer hilt. Why all of a sudden stop? He had windu again there. Another time would be when he and windu at sword point and just stayed there at his chest instead of you know lunging and ending the battle there. He had plenty of time. Another thing we know sidious is a master manipulator and when given time can make some pretty elaborate and good plans. That is seen by how he manipulates the clone wars, and the rebel alliance into attacking the Death Star. Sidious also knows about padme and Anakins struggle and he would use that. Also Samuel L Jackson states that mace is like the person Anakin would hate most he has been at odds with him since day one. Sidious of course would know this and pick up on that and leave him alive. Also Anakin just shows up right when Sidious is "disarmed". Also speaking of saber sidious and another one him after being disarmed of the first one so he could have came out like round 2.
So with that form your own conclusion. Say what you wish, but at the end of the day there is no official answer, Lucas has kept his answe private, there is plenty of evidence for a sidious threw the fight scenario, and there is nothing you or anyone else except Lucas can do about that. While that maybe the movie and novel do leave evidence that suggest it.
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2Lucas already answers it. You are just speculating which is an opinion unlike the director describing the scene. SIDS lost. Deal with it, fanboy.
Your interpretation isn't fact just your opinion. Until Lucas comes up with an official answer to the question its all opinion on what happened. Again looking at all instances involving timeing, opportunities, and the fact sidious had a second blade on him shows that yes he could have pulled it out and kept fighting shows a possibility the battle was thrown. Also sidiosu was faking weakness and the novel says he was bending windus blade. Those things show that if he would have continued wimdus blade would have killed him. Helpless? 😂 He had force lightning and a second saber, he was t helpless. Lucas has made this a debate on purpose.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Lucas already answers it. You are just speculating which is an opinion unlike the director describing the scene. SIDS lost. Deal with it, fanboy.
Again if Lucas answered it there wouldn't be this big debate. We both have opinions. The director has not given his official views on the subject. He just described what we see solely on that one specific two second moment, not the entire fight or why he never uses his force powers during the lightsbaer duel, or why he doesn't take the lunge through maces heart, or why he doesn't go for mace and opts to go for kolar and tinn first. He could have taken mace out but went for two he could easily take out later. Sidious losing or throwing the fight is still up for,debate. Deal with it crybaby.
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
The all caps is not necessary. If Lucas gave his answer there wouldn't be Thai big of a discussion. Again describing that one particular scene, not involving Anyang else just that one point. Again overpowering just him describing that one scene, that one motion without anything else being brought in to evaluate. That's what we see however when all information and evidence brought into play it's obvious that there is a high possibility sidious threw the fight. His opinion is purposely kept secret on this matter. Again if his opinion really ended this debate he would have reassured saying something along the lines of I have said what the real answer is so there is no debate over this, or he would have given an official answer to clarify what he said so with that his commentary while useful, not meant to end this debate. Again with that it also shows he threw the fight because, sidiosu has spent 13 years around windu. He knows that windu is second only to yoda. So answer me this? Why would he go for tinn or kolar first when he could easily take them out later why not leave them for last and take the more dangerous one out first. Sidiosu could have seeing as in both the film and the books he has shown he is a better duels it and mich faster than windu and he did attack tinn/kolar beige windu reacted. Also anyone who says windu is a better duelist than palaptine is wrong due to how the novel says that even with 100% vaapad they were perfect stalemates. If the location had been different the battle would have gone on forever with sidious being the victor with his more powerful use of the force. That strikes another point in the lightsbaer duel he never uses his offensive force powers. Never uses, crush, choke, lightning push, etc in the films. Also the novel also states that sidious was bending his lightsbaer hilt. Why all of a sudden stop? He had windu again there. Another time would be when he and windu at sword point and just stayed there at his chest instead of you know lunging and ending the battle there. He had plenty of time. Another thing we know sidious is a master manipulator and when given time can make some pretty elaborate and good plans. That is seen by how he manipulates the clone wars, and the rebel alliance into attacking the Death Star. Sidious also knows about padme and Anakins struggle and he would use that. Also Samuel L Jackson states that mace is like the person Anakin would hate most he has been at odds with him since day one. Sidious of course would know this and pick up on that and leave him alive. Also Anakin just shows up right when Sidious is "disarmed". Also speaking of saber sidious and another one him after being disarmed of the first one so he could have came out like round 2.So with that form your own conclusion. Say what you wish, but at the end of the day there is no official answer, Lucas has kept his answe private, there is plenty of evidence for a sidious threw the fight scenario, and there is nothing you or anyone else except Lucas can do about that. While that maybe the movie and novel do leave evidence that suggest it.
This is why there is no point in arguing with you... you just cover your eyes and go nah uh over and over. LUCAS VIEW WAS ALREADY MADE. Stop saying he needs to come out AGAIN and reaffirm his view. He needs to do no such thing for any Sids apologist who doesn't like the outcome of the fight. It's ludicrous to even imply he needs to do that. His opinion has already been noted in the script.. commentary.. book... EVERY medium Lucas had at his disposal came up with the SAME thing... Windu beat Palps. PERIOD> In no way does he need to come out again and reaffirm what we already saw. You do agree that he doesn't need to come out again right to reaffirm anything? You agree that his view is already mostly likely (throwing you a bone with the most likely as I believe it's a fact) known?
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
This is why there is no point in arguing with you... you just cover your eyes and go nah uh over and over. LUCAS VIEW WAS ALREADY MADE. Stop saying he needs to come out AGAIN and reaffirm his view. He needs to do no such thing for any Sids apologist who doesn't like the outcome of the fight. It's ludicrous to even imply he needs to do that. His opinion has already been noted in the script.. commentary.. book... EVERY medium Lucas had at his disposal came up with the SAME thing... Windu beat Palps. PERIOD> In no way does he need to come out again and reaffirm what we already saw. You do agree that he doesn't need to come out again right to reaffirm anything? You agree that his view is already mostly likely (throwing you a bone with the most likely as I believe it's a fact) known?
First off you make sidiosu fans seem like the blind ones. What about propel like you and Quan who blind your eyes to other possibilities, and all the other smaller details. Again if his view was clearly made than there would not be this big debate which according to quans thread in the expanded universe forum the majority that has voted says sidious did throw the fight. I'm not saying he has to, however I'm saying if he really meant mace won then he could just go out and say this is what I meant to clear up any confusion which would be the logical thing for him to do if it was that serious. Again not saying he has to, I'm saying if that's what he really meant and it's this much dismay or belief of another belief he can simply just put out that statement to clarify. Actually no. The book implies that sidious could have killed him with one simple fact. He went for Tinn in book and kolar in movie fist instead going for windu and windu hadn't dropped into vaapad yet. So he was faster and could have killed him if he choose to. Movie, you take out of proportion and take those words to seriously. They are simply not taking all evidence into account. Just beciase you see something look closer at it, not just that one thing?
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2He did answer it and fanboys want to pretend that he didn't lose. It doesn't make sense that he'd scream you will die if he wanted to throw the fight. After he realized he could do nothing in his current position he feigned weakness because HE NEEDED ANAKIN TO HELP HIM. Lucas already clarified it and no amount of SIDS fanboys are going to change reality.
Again if Lucas answered it there wouldn't be this big debate. We both have opinions. The director has not given his official views on the subject. He just described what we see solely on that one specific two second moment, not the entire fight or why he never uses his force powers during the lightsbaer duel, or why he doesn't take the lunge through maces heart, or why he doesn't go for mace and opts to go for kolar and tinn first. He could have taken mace out but went for two he could easily take out later. Sidious losing or throwing the fight is still up for,debate. Deal with it crybaby.
Originally posted by quanchi112
He did answer it and fanboys want to pretend that he didn't lose. It doesn't make sense that he'd scream you will die if he wanted to throw the fight. After he realized he could do nothing in his current position he feigned weakness because HE NEEDED ANAKIN TO HELP HIM. Lucas already clarified it and no amount of SIDS fanboys are going to change reality.
If he answered it then there wouldn' t be this big of a disagreement and he would have clarified. You wanna know what else doesn't make sense. Why sidious went for the weaker Jedi when he showed he was fast enough to take all of them out.
Also sidious had a second saber so he could have easily pulled that out.
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
First off you make sidiosu fans seem like the blind ones. What about propel like you and Quan who blind your eyes to other possibilities, and all the other smaller details. Again if his view was clearly made than there would not be this big debate which according to quans thread in the expanded universe forum the majority that has voted says sidious did throw the fight. I'm not saying he has to, however I'm saying if he really meant mace won then he could just go out and say this is what I meant to clear up any confusion which would be the logical thing for him to do if it was that serious. Again not saying he has to, I'm saying if that's what he really meant and it's this much dismay or belief of another belief he can simply just put out that statement to clarify. Actually no. The book implies that sidious could have killed him with one simple fact. He went for Tinn in book and kolar in movie fist instead going for windu and windu hadn't dropped into vaapad yet. So he was faster and could have killed him if he choose to. Movie, you take out of proportion and take those words to seriously. They are simply not taking all evidence into account. Just beciase you see something look closer at it, not just that one thing?
This is simply the worst kind of argument possible. You're assuming Lucas feels there is a debate to be had. That isn't so. The VAST majority saw the movie and can tell EXACTLY what happened. They don't need Lucas commentary... script.. or book to know what happened. A five year old would look at the fight and go.. yup Mace won. Period. All the other sources make the argument over and done with. Make no mistake though.. there is very little debate about what happened in an overall context. The vast majority of the viewing audience knowns exactly what happened. Mace beat him.
Do you honestly think Lucas gives to shit about Sids apologist online who can't accept Sids losing and try and find any little thing to grasp onto so that it appears he didn't really lose? Only the battleboard nerds are the ones that try and contest what happens. Lucas doesn't give two shits about them. For all he cares it's already been decided and CLEAR so over multiple mediums even. To him, the matter is resolved. I no way does he need to, nor does he have to, nor does he probably feel like there is anything to debate. It was made CRYSTAL CLEAR.
In conclusion your position is based on fallacy after fallacy, and not even good ones at that. You're coming from a position that is totally based on your conjecture, with no proof. I'm coming from a position with certifiable DEFINATIVE proof. They aren't even comparable. Think about it, your proof is, well if Lucas wanted it resolve the issue.. since he hasn't.. must me he's conflicted about it.... LMAO. It's just ludicrous what you're trying to bring to the table as proof. This has been decided already. You know that. Maybe you don't like it, but it has. Until Lucas comes out and DIRECTLY states he through the fight, it has to be considered Mace wining. I surely hope you can agree with that logic. That as it stands Mace beats SIds.. unless stated otherwise. If you disagree with that, then there's is little hope for you