Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Maybe, I'm sorry if I offended you. Still think it's kind of dumb. 😛Being resistant to magic as opposed to vulnerable won't save him from Thor's bag of tricks. I'm curious how Mjolnir will affect Prime. The Odin Force has been portrayed as divine and cosmic as well as magical and Mjolnir has actively bypassed magical based enchantments/resistance.
We've seen him directly manipulate pure Solar energy and drain beings powered by energy dry. It's going to be a serious problem for Prime as Supermen being powered by the Sun is common knowledge according to forum rules as I understand it. Doesn't help that Prime can be a real coward the moment he gets in trouble and will most likely panic.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankHere is the thing, this is Thor with no CIS/PIS. He either has a winning strategy that he will repeat or he doesn't.
😂I mean, if I or anyone else is so out of line or radical, by all mean, please explain? Considering my stance is that this is anything but a cakewalk for Prime and Thor could at least score a handful of wins (I haven't even argued him winning for the majority), I really and honestly don't see what's so crazy about Thor's absurd power set being utilized to its maximum efficency in an OOC manner.
His offensive measures under the OP are clearly at a level where he will hurt Prime. That's indisputable.
His defensive measures under the OP are clearly at a level where he can defend himself against Prime. That's indisputable.
His raw physical prowess under the OP is clearly at a level where Prime cannot easily dismiss him. That's also indisputable.
Am I wrong here?
I can understand when people this when it's your normal scenario, but it's CIS/CIP off. It's either a win or a lose scenario, not a "he grabs a few wins"
As far as me convincing you. Normally, I would but I'm more than sure that you have read all issues with SBP. It just comes down to what your gut is telling you. It's telling me, that once that HV goes off, Thor loses. Can he absorb it? Sure, but when they start to exchange any blows, a HV will pop up that kills Thor
Originally posted by abhilegend
Considering Connor affects his confidence and thus his strength and Sodam Yat is actually more durable than Thor despite whatever you think, its not comparable. Shall I use Thor being put in a coma by a ship mast too?That's not SBP in the first place. Also what is this garbage about proving he retained that level of strength? That's the same character before or after IC. If he did a feat in COIE its as valid as any feat done by any character. Prime overpowered Mon-El, M'onel, Andromeda and Guardian Sodam Yat at the same time. Mon-El alone has feats like tearing out a dwarf star and transporting it across several galaxies or throwing moons at time-trapper. Also does strength only count when its shown in combat now?
Conner straight up is able to hurt Prime and not instantly die when attacked by him. And's it's consistent every time he shows up. Unless you can show me a panel where it's specifically stated that Conner has some kind of "confidence sapping" power on Prime or even a scene where it's alluded to, that's just an excuse. Sodam Yat is more durable than Thor? Based on what? Thor's best shits on Yat, let alone Thor under these conditions, so that's a non point. As far as the ship mast goes, that's blatant PIS and lowballing - both of which is against the rules. Conner and Yat being able to hurt Prime and not instantly be killed or KO'd by him isn't PIS at all, nor is it lowballing Prime. But yeah, if you have to lowball Thor to make a case here, it just proves my point.
If Prime consistently displayed PC level durability/strength/speed/what have you, okay. But he didn't. Unless you think PC Kryptonians can be phased by guys in the herald tier to the degree on which Prime was consistently (keyword here) effected by since Infinite Crisis. And yeah, considering you're all against space cheese (unless it's convenient for you), since Prime doesn't go around one shot KOing or killing people or even easily beating Thor level beings, yeah, I'm inclined to look at what Prime actually does in a combat setting with his strength.
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Here is the thing, this is Thor with no CIS/PIS. He either has a winning strategy that he will repeat or he doesn't.I can understand when people this when it's your normal scenario, but it's CIS/CIP off. It's either a win or a lose scenario, not a "he grabs a few wins"
As far as me convincing you. Normally, I would but I'm more than sure that you have read all issues with SBP. It just comes down to what your gut is telling you. It's telling me, that once that HV goes off, Thor loses. Can he absorb it? Sure, but when they start to exchange any blows, a HV will pop up that kills Thor
It's Thor without CIS and CIP. PIS is off by default.
It's the exact same mentality as a normal fight as far x out of 10 wins go. No, he doesn't fight ten fights and use previous knowledge or skills gained from the last one as it's just percentages.
Who the hell did Prime kill with HV to make you think he would do so to Thor, let alone in the casual manner you seem to be implying? I mean, you'd have to ignore Mjolnir as a means to block/absorb/otherwise defend against that attack for one as well as all the other vast energy attacks Thor has weathered without dying. Unless you think Prime's HV will succeed where all the other shit that hasn't outright killed Thor or brought him close to death haven't.
I don't think Thor will obviously no sell Prime's HV, but considering the plethora of attacks Thor has endured over his career, I really don't see that as being the game changer.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankKnowledge? No, but seeing as how there is no CIS/PIS/CIP holding back Thor, if you can think of a winning strategy, he can repeat it over and over again. Which is why I say, if you think Thor can win once using whatever strategy you can think of, it will be the same thing over and over again with same results.
It's Thor without CIS and CIP. PIS is off by default.It's the exact same mentality as a normal fight as far x out of 10 wins go. No, he doesn't fight ten fights and use previous knowledge or skills gained from the last one as it's just percentages.
Who the hell did Prime kill with HV to make you think he would do so to Thor, let alone in the casual manner you seem to be implying? I mean, you'd have to ignore Mjolnir as a means to block/absorb/otherwise defend against that attack for one as well as all the other vast energy attacks Thor has weathered without dying. Unless you think Prime's HV will succeed where all the other shit that hasn't outright killed Thor or brought him close to death haven't.
As far as HV is concerned. If it was able to go through Superman's palm and chest, I'd say it is strong enough to do similar stuff to Thor
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Knowledge? No, but seeing as how there is no CIS/PIS/CIP holding back Thor, if you can think of a winning strategy, he can repeat it over and over again. Which is why I say, if you think Thor can win once using whatever strategy you can think of, it will be the same thing over and over again with same results.As far as HV is concerned. If it was able to go through Superman's palm and chest, I'd say it is strong enough to do similar stuff to Thor
Thor was being literally skewered by Gorr and didn't die. Considering Thor's intense damage soak, even assuming Prime's HV does penetrate Thor easily, given his feats as a whole, I don't see Prime's HV as having one shot killing power, especially considering Prime didn't one shot kill or come close to doing so on anyone around Thor's level with his heat vision.
That's also without factoring in Mjolnir.
skewered isn't the same as thinking a HV through the skull/hear..etc. Obviously, SPB didn't kill anyone on Superman's/Thor's level that we know of because most of that have been off panel. He did destroy countless Universes JLA with a Guardian Amp. PIS kept him from killing off everyone in SCW. Yet, I'd say his constant ability to penetrate various shield/power house heroes should be enough to believe that tt would happen to Thor as well. Mjolnir would help in fight that's kept at a distance, sure, but a face to face fight, A HV will land
Originally posted by abhilegend
He only need a ray of sunlight to fully recharge himself. Prime like PC kryptonians don't store solar energy in their cells, they awaken their latent powers by the yellow sun and lighter gravity of earth. The longer they stay away from sun, the weaker they become. There is nothing for Thor to absorb there.
What the hell are you talking about? The entire point of the suit the Anti-Monitor created was to increase Superboy Prime's absorption of sunlight as he was depowered by flying through a Red Star and kept under Red Sunlight by the Green Lantern Corps.
You aren't even making any sense, Prime clearly works just like Post-Crisis Kryptonians in regards to his powers.
He feeds on yellow Sunlight just like Post-Crisis Kryptonians.
Edit: Yea you're nuts:
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/10/25/1539595/primvs3.jpg
Originally posted by xJLxKing
skewered isn't the same as thinking a HV through the skull/hear..etc. Obviously, SPB didn't kill anyone on Superman's/Thor's level that we know of because most of that have been off panel. He did destroy countless Universes JLA with a Guardian Amp. PIS kept him from killing off everyone in SCW. Yet, I'd say his constant ability to penetrate various shield/power house heroes should be enough to believe that tt would happen to Thor as well. Mjolnir would help in fight that's kept at a distance, sure, but a face to face fight, A HV will land
Gorr was stabbing Thor repeatedly all over his body and while he ultimately beat Thor (and two other Thors as well), it was made abundantly clear that Thor's damage soak was and is high enough to continue fighting in spite of that damage. There's also the fact that Thor's taken attacks far more powerful than heat vision and hasn't been killed or brought close to dying. So to that end, coupled with the fact that Prime never actually one shot killed/KO'd Thor level beings with his heat vision via blasts to the skull or heart, I'm inclined to believe that Prime's heat vision, while undoubtedly a powerful tool, isn't a game changer that will outright slay Thor with ease.
For the record, Superboy withstood Prime's Heat Vision:
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/roundtwo.jpg
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/roundtwo3.jpg
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Conner straight up is able to hurt Prime and not instantly die when attacked by him. And's it's consistent every time he shows up. Unless you can show me a panel where it's specifically stated that Conner has some kind of "confidence sapping" power on Prime or even a scene where it's alluded to, that's just an excuse. Sodam Yat is more durable than Thor? Based on what? Thor's best shits on Yat, let alone Thor under these conditions, so that's a non point. As far as the ship mast goes, that's blatant PIS and lowballing - both of which is against the rules. Conner and Yat being able to hurt Prime and not instantly be killed or KO'd by him isn't PIS at all, nor is it lowballing Prime. But yeah, if you have to lowball Thor to make a case here, it just proves my point.If Prime consistently displayed PC level durability/strength/speed/what have you, okay. But he didn't. Unless you think PC Kryptonians can be phased by guys in the herald tier to the degree on which Prime was consistently (keyword here) effected by since Infinite Crisis. And yeah, considering you're all against space cheese (unless it's convenient for you), since Prime doesn't go around one shot KOing or killing people or even easily beating Thor level beings, yeah, I'm inclined to look at what Prime actually does in a combat setting with his strength.
Thor's best shits on Yat? Show me Thor surviving a planet exploding and taking hits from Anti-Monitor level beings on a lower power level than when he fought prime.
What? There is nothing said in the OP that thor's low feats don't apply here. Who said that? You are trying to lowball SBP with Connor.
He oneshot nearly killed Wildfire who has superman level durability, he shredded Monarch's armor in one attack. What else does he need to show you? Just because he doesn't kills Superman or Sodam Yat in one punch doesn't mean shit here.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Thor was being literally skewered by Gorr and didn't die. Considering Thor's intense damage soak, even assuming Prime's HV does penetrate Thor easily, given his feats as a whole, I don't see Prime's HV as having one shot killing power, especially considering Prime didn't one shot kill or come close to doing so on anyone around Thor's level with his heat vision.That's also without factoring in Mjolnir.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
For the record, Superboy withstood Prime's Heat Vision:
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/roundtwo.jpg
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/roundtwo3.jpg
Originally posted by abhilegend
If that isn't a proof that Connor lowers prime's power level, I don't see what is. The same prime blasted through Superman by HV twice.
Ion and Prime were shooting each other in the f*cking face and he didn't blast through him either:
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/primevsion3.jpg
Post a scan that even alludes to Conner's presence weakening Prime or stop bringing it up. This is fanboy nonsense at it's finest.
Superman had a bit of a shitty showing, whatever, it happens. That's not evidence of Conner weakening Prime. I mean, seriously.
Originally posted by abhilegend
That's why I said he affects Prime's mind and lowers his power level. The same comic has had SBP shrugging off Black Adam's charged punches and overpowering 4 superman class individuals where Connor affected him. That's a huge discrepancy. It can't be just chalked as PIS or a low showing.Thor's best shits on Yat? Show me Thor surviving a planet exploding and taking hits from Anti-Monitor level beings on a lower power level than when he fought prime.
What? There is nothing said in the OP that thor's low feats don't apply here. Who said that? You are trying to lowball SBP with Connor.
He oneshot nearly killed Wildfire who has superman level durability, he shredded Monarch's armor in one attack. What else does he need to show you? Just because he doesn't kills Superman or Sodam Yat in one punch doesn't mean shit here.
Who did he attack with HV on a fatal area of body? You think the same HV that blasted through superman's hand wouldn't have killed him if SBP aimed it at his head?
Prove Conner effects his power level and/or mind enough to basically "Gladiator effect" Prime. Black Adam's punches (ie, the physical/kinetic effect of them) effected Prime. But due to their magical nature (ie. the lightning amps) he wasn't effected. Martian Manhunter hurt him with a punch. Hal Jordan hurt him with a stray energy blast. Bart hurt Prime with a punch. So, yeah, while Prime may be > than those characters, him being hurt by them and at the same time being able to just end them isn't PIS or some kind of "mental phuckery" or even a low showing. It's consistent with Prime's entire history since his return to comics.
Thor's entire history shits on Yat. He put up a great effort against Prime and wasn't killed by the Anti-Monitor? Great. Thor habitually fights skyfathers with galactic or universal threat levels and doesn't get beaten half to death in a humiliating fashion. I'd be more than glad to battlezone the abortion of Sodam Yat as Thor.
Do you even read what you type? Specifically using low feats such as that mast showing is the very definition of lowballing in addition to citing PIS feats, both of which are against the rules. The fact that you're immediately trying to cite low showings of Thor's is testament to that. And me citing how Conner CONSISTENTLY gives Prime a damn good fight isn't lowballing Prime at all. And if it was, it's not NEARLY to the degree as you seriously bringing up that mast showing.
Feats of Wildfire that puts him at Superman's level? Monarch? He was amped the vast majority of the time when he fought Monarch and Monarch was a complete idiot the whole time, essentially trolling the shit out of Prime and treating him like a whiny child. Actually, yes, the fact that Prime can't easily dispatch of Superman or Sodam Yat speaks volumes here. Considering what Superman has survived, no, I don't think Prime's heat vision would have one shot killed Superman at all.
Originally posted by Zack Fair
Conner being able to stand up to Prime is really, really stupid.But it has happened.
More then once. It's comics. The primary reason is honestly team jobber mentality. Batman solo is going to look better against Superman then the entire league, it's a consistent pattern.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Ion and Prime were shooting each other in the f*cking face and he didn't blast through him either:
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/primevsion3.jpgPost a scan that even alludes to Conner's presence weakening Prime or stop bringing it up. This is fanboy nonsense at it's finest.
Superman had a bit of a shitty showing, whatever, it happens. That's not evidence of Conner weakening Prime. I mean, seriously.
Its right in his powerset. Want me to post how PC kryptonians' whole power was dependent on their mind? Prime is a PC kryptonian, the lower their confidence the less powerful they become. Did you see Prime stuttering in the same scan?
