Thor (CIS/CIP OFF) vs Superboy Prime

Started by JakeTheBank26 pages
Originally posted by abhilegend
Its right in his powerset. He is a PC kryptonian bro.

Nowhere did Geoff Johns or any other writer who handled Prime since his character was reintroduced into the DCU mentioned, alluded, stated, or even showed that Conner specifically has the means to weaken Prime. It's a sorry excuse to try and save face for Prime. Prime's mentality didn't make him weak, either. And saying "he's a PC Kryptonian" isn't proof.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Being magical doesn't means the blunt force was negated.

I didn't say the blunt force was negated. Clearly, the blunt force was enough to stagger Prime. The magical aspect of those punches were just ineffective against Prime.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He only punched him away. Prime later oneshotted him.

It's a case of a herald being clearly being able to hurt Prime. And J'onn being one shot by Prime isn't exactly a shocker or newsworthy to either character.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Well, that's Geoff Johns. What did you expect? Also that prime was lower in power.

😂 So that feat doesn't count because Geoff Johns was also handling the Green Lantern mythos? How was Prime lower in power?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Who had the whole speed force inside him first time and later was lowering his confidence.

So now Bart has the mysterious ability to weaken Prime through "confidence"? He didn't have the whole Speed Force within him when he was hurting him with punches.

Originally posted by abhilegend
The only thing consistent with all that is that Prime either oneshots them later or suffers a confidence drop. Gimme a minute and I will show you how PC kryptonians' power works. That's why you are a false superfan, you don't know anything about superman.

I know plenty about Superman, Abhi. Just because I'm not an zealot of a fan who thinks the entire forum hates him or picks on him doesn't mean I don't know anything about the character. Don't insult my intelligence. And yeah, I know about PC Kryptonians. Too bad Geoff Johns didn't write them on that same ridiculous high end level or under the same rules as back then. If you can show me anything published since Infinite Crisis showing how Prime's power level explicitly fluctuates due to confidence or Conner or Bart specifically "weakening" him, go for it. Hate to break your bubble, but while Prime's canonical history may be from the PC era, it doesn't mean his level of formidability was unchanged. Happens all the times with characters, let alone after massive continuity changes.

Originally posted by abhilegend
then why not post those scans of Thor surviving a planet exploding and whatnot at a lower power level.

Thor's got better feats than surviving a planet exploding and getting worked over by Prime and surviving the Anti-Monitor. Thor would demolish Yat in a feat war, don't delude yourself.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Thor randomly fighting skyfathers in a few issues among more than 5000 issues isn't a norm. Yat has only a few appearances and his average is stupidly high.

One of Thor's recurring villains is a skyfather on par with Odin at the very least. Essentially every time Thor faces a skyfather, he does quite well in spite of the disparity of power. You not liking it doesn't make it not true, nor do those feats not "count" here. Thor's average across his decade spanning career is at least as good as Yat's. His high end feats obliterate him.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What is with you and urge to battlezone characters with a few appearances. I'd be more than happy to BZ you with Superman against anybody too.

What's with you being so adamant about often ridiculous stances and then refusing to Battlezone them? If you're so confident Yat is grossly beyond Thor, it should be a simple matter to devote time to making a pre-detirmined number of posts to prove it and leave up to judges to deem the winner. But of course, that probably won't work because you think everyone or at least a great deal of people hate you and treats you unfairly on KMC. This isn't about Superman, abhi. Nice try, though.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And you're doing what exactly?

Don't even phucking start. I'm not citing PIS or lowballing Prime when I list consistent feats/patterns of his battles. Conner hurting Prime and giving him a damn good fight every single time they face other isn't the same damn thing as using a mast head KOing Thor and you know it. Don't pull this BS strawman crap again.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Connor gives Prime a good fight regularly because he lowers his power level. That's definition of lowballing bro.

Conner doesn't lower his goddamn power level. Show me a comic from Geoff Johns or another writer who handled the two where this is stated by a character or narration. Show me a comic since Infinite Crisis that states "Superboy is Superboy Prime's weakness". Otherwise this is just baseless and desperate speculation. And it most certainly isn't lowballing considering Conner is a recurring foe for Prime in almost every arc Prime shows up in.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He has taken attacks from Mordru, Glorith, Time trapper and shit. He's also fought Mon-el evenly.

Cool. That's one character Prime supposedly nearly killed by your count (which is subject as of late) that's around Thor level with any sort of ease as opposed to all the characters Prime didn't wreck easily that's around his level.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That means shit. Prime burned out his amp when he shredded his armor.

Considering the brunt of that fight was done while Prime was amped, it's hardly a feat that can be attributed to him normally.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No it doesn't, when either are far more durable than thor.

"Far more durable"? Give me a phucking break. Thor clearly has the feats to rival their own and the only way you don't get to that conclusion is through either ignorance of Thor or outright lowballing him as you did earlier with that ship mast.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Now you're ignoring direct on panel proof. Prime blasted through superman twice without any effort. If he aimed at superman's head, he would've succeeded there too.

Prime blasted a bunch of people at point blank range with heat vision that didn't kill them. A good deal of them were at or lower than Superman's level. The idea that Prime could have one shot killed Superman is so mind numbingly stupid it doesn't deserve a response.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Then they are wrong. Their powers don't work differently. Its been specifically stated in DCP 87 and COIE.

Show it being the case in modern continuity. If Conner's presence weakens Prime ( 😐 ) considering they've battled at least four separate times, it should be a simple thing for you to find a comic printed after Infinite Crisis stating that Prime's power drops when confronted with Conner.

Throwing Pre-Crisis comics that don't even involve Prime in question isn't anything close to proof.

LoL.

Why is it so stupid? Seriously. We saw the heat vision pierce him like he wasn't even there. I get how HV didn't kill other characters, but it isn't stupid to think Prime could have killed Superman with the HV had he aimed someplace else during that instance.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
LoL.

Why is it so stupid? Seriously. We saw the heat vision pierce him like he wasn't even there.

It pierced him. Cool. And that means if Prime was smart enough to aim for vital areas (which he clearly is not) and managed to hit Superman in one of them that would instantly kill him? Especially considering the shit he's survived?

His heat vision was piercing Superboy and Yat. Yat was getting shot right in the face.

Yeah, I think the idea that Prime could have one shot killed Superman had he aimed better to be really dumb considering the shit Superman's survived.

Well excuse me for being dumb. uhuh

I think it would do it. Especially because that HV was capable of doing that while Prime was extremely weak.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Well excuse me for being dumb. uhuh

You're not dumb.

The idea that Prime, even with a lucky shot of HV, could have one shot killed Superman, is. I mean, maybe I'm giving the guy too much credit, but based on all the absurd and next to impossible stuff he's survived, I just find it almost incomprehensible Prime could have ended him with heat vision when characters at or below Superman's power level weren't killed outright.

Superman has also endured living without his heart and similar stuff, so I get where you're coming from.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Superman has also endured living without his heart and similar stuff, so I get where you're coming from.

Exactly. It's not like the guy requires his organs or vitals like logic dictates. And Prime's not smart enough to pull that shit anyway. Hell, if Superman went all out/removed the mental blocks on Prime while retaining his tactical expertise and fought smart and efficiently, he'd probably embarrass the kid.

CIS, CIP, CNN, PIS, STD, etc. does nothing for Thor other than give fanboys theoretical hammer tactics that would most certainly fell characters from that other company just because.

SBP being faster and stronger than Thor engages him in H2H. Thor either fights back but gets KO'd anyways, or doesn't attempting to theorycraft Prime and gets used.

Hard.

Originally posted by connocr
CIS, CIP, CNN, PIS, STD, etc. does nothing for Thor other than give fanboys theoretical hammer tactics that would most certainly fell characters from that other company just because.

SBP being faster and stronger than Thor engages him in H2H. Thor either fights back but gets KO'd anyways, or doesn't attempting to theorycraft Prime and gets used.

Hard.

Of course it does.

It basically warps Thor into a battle board mentality/CBR character that doesn't even remotely resemble the Thor that regularly appears in comics. Those "theoretical hammer tactics" have done numbers on extremely powerful beings because they work. It's not crazy to assume they would do the same to other characters, regardless of whether you like DC or Marvel more.

It's not like people are just throwing out random shit that Thor hasn't actually done on panel before.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Of course, it does.

It basically warps Thor into a battle board mentality/CBR character that doesn't even remotely resemble the Thor that regularly appears in comics. Those "theoretical hammer tactics" have done numbers on extremely powerful beings because they work. It's not crazy to assume they would do the same to other characters, regardless of whether you like DC or Marvel more.

It's not like people are just throwing out random shit that Thor hasn't actually done on panel before.

So in other words, you in agreement that CISICPISTD is all hammer tactics and Thor still isn't as strong or as fast or as durable as SBP.

Sweet.

Originally posted by connocr
So in other words, you in agreement that CISICPISTD is all hammer tactics and Thor still isn't as strong or as fast or as durable as SBP.

Sweet.

Considering I never said that Thor isn't as strong, fast, or durable as Prime to begin with, sure, that's a very simple way of looking at it.

Of course, those "hammer tactics" border on plot device in scope and power and have consistently given Thor the means to challenge and stagger foes more powerful than he is which is pretty sweet, I agree.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Do you happen to have a scan? I don't see why not. Was this before or after Yat gets his Daxamite powers?

Before.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Considering I never said that Thor isn't as strong, fast, or durable as Prime to begin with, sure, that's a very simple way of looking at it.

Of course, those "hammer tactics" border on plot device in scope and power and have consistently given Thor the means to challenge and stagger foes more powerful than he is which is pretty sweet, I agree.

So y u type many wurds in trick butthurt deefens?

Jsut agree.

Be friendz. Move along.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Nowhere did Geoff Johns or any other writer who handled Prime since his character was reintroduced into the DCU mentioned, alluded, stated, or even showed that Conner specifically has the means to weaken Prime. It's a sorry excuse to try and save face for Prime. Prime's mentality didn't make him weak, either. And saying "he's a PC Kryptonian" isn't proof.
Johns did it with normal superman much less SBP in up, up and away. I don't need to show it being in modern continuity or anything. For SBP its all canon. Just because you think its not, doesn't mean its not true. Heck we see him meeting PC Superman in SCW when he recalled his past.

I didn't say the blunt force was negated. Clearly, the blunt force was enough to stagger Prime.
It never staggered prime. He was pretending it hurt when it only tickled him.
The magical aspect of those punches were just ineffective against Prime.
The whole punches were ineffective against prime.

It's a case of a herald being clearly being able to hurt Prime. And J'onn being one shot by Prime isn't exactly a shocker or newsworthy to either character.
While he was weakened than his normal levels by spending years under red sun. The armor didn't restore him to full power.

😂 So that feat doesn't count because Geoff Johns was also handling the Green Lantern mythos?
I never said so.
How was Prime lower in power?
The armor didn't restore him to full power.

So now Bart has the mysterious ability to weaken Prime through "confidence"?
In LO3W? Absolutely. He fears flashes since the trapped him in speed force.
He didn't have the whole Speed Force within him when he was hurting him with punches.
In IC? He did. He was also amped in LO3W by Barry Allen returning and Speed force being more active than usual.

I know plenty about Superman, Abhi.
Obviously you don't.
Just because I'm not an zealot of a fan who thinks the entire forum hates him or picks on him doesn't mean I don't know anything about the character.
Meaningless personal insult.
Don't insult my intelligence.
No need to.
And yeah, I know about PC Kryptonians.
You don't.
Too bad Geoff Johns didn't write them on that same ridiculous high end level or under the same rules as back then. If you can show me anything published since Infinite Crisis showing how Prime's power level explicitly fluctuates due to confidence or Conner or Bart specifically "weakening" him, go for it.
Again no need to. You're basicallly ignoring prime's powerset here. Once its shown is enough.
Hate to break your bubble, but while Prime's canonical history may be from the PC era, it doesn't mean his level of formidability was unchanged.
Prime has no showings pre-crisis that matches his post crisis feats. That's why I said you don't know anything about superman.
Happens all the times with characters, let alone after massive continuity changes.
Prime's continuity is unchanged. The only thing that happened to him pre-crisis was shown in post crisis too i.e. PC superman meeting him on earth-prime.

Thor's got better feats than surviving a planet exploding and getting worked over by Prime and surviving the Anti-Monitor.
Like what?
Thor would demolish Yat in a feat war, don't delude yourself.
Superman would demolish all three characters combined. Means little.

One of Thor's recurring villains is a skyfather on par with Odin at the very least.
Who has what three battles with thor in one of which he twoshotted thor?
Essentially every time Thor faces a skyfather, he does quite well in spite of the disparity of power. You not liking it doesn't make it not true, nor do those feats not "count" here. Thor's average across his decade spanning career is at least as good as Yat's. His high end feats obliterate him.
Not really. Its cute though how you think so highly of thor.

What's with you being so adamant about often ridiculous stances and then refusing to Battlezone them? If you're so confident Yat is grossly beyond Thor, it should be a simple matter to devote time to making a pre-detirmined number of posts to prove it and leave up to judges to deem the winner.
Because its simply not feasible for any character with so few appearances to compete with someone who has more than 5000 appearances.
But of course, that probably won't work because you think everyone or at least a great deal of people hate you and treats you unfairly on KMC.
Again meaningless personal barbs.
This isn't about Superman, abhi. Nice try, though.
Good for you.

Don't even phucking start. I'm not citing PIS or lowballing Prime when I list consistent feats/patterns of his battles. Conner hurting Prime and giving him a damn good fight every single time they face other isn't the same damn thing as using a mast head KOing Thor and you know it.
Of course it is when you don't know how that dynamic works.
Don't pull this BS strawman crap again.
No need to get angry bro.

Conner doesn't lower his goddamn power level.
He does.
Show me a comic from Geoff Johns or another writer who handled the two where this is stated by a character or narration. Show me a comic since Infinite Crisis that states "Superboy is Superboy Prime's weakness". Otherwise this is just baseless and desperate speculation.
Or in other words, I would just ignore prime's whole powerset.👆
And it most certainly isn't lowballing considering Conner is a recurring foe for Prime in almost every arc Prime shows up in.
It is lowballing when you don't count why that happened.

Cool. That's one character Prime supposedly nearly killed by your count (which is subject as of late) that's around Thor level with any sort of ease as opposed to all the characters Prime didn't wreck easily that's around his level.
So we ignore it. Good strategy bro. Ask for feats and then ignore it.👆

Considering the brunt of that fight was done while Prime was amped, it's hardly a feat that can be attributed to him normally.
The armor shredding is most certainly prime's own doing. Now you're just desperate.

"Far more durable"? Give me a phucking break. Thor clearly has the feats to rival their own and the only way you don't get to that conclusion is through either ignorance of Thor or outright lowballing him as you did earlier with that ship mast.
Want to battlezone Superman's durability against Thor's?

Prime blasted a bunch of people at point blank range with heat vision that didn't kill them.
Obviously.
A good deal of them were at or lower than Superman's level.
That means his feat of easily blasting through superman twice is null and void, right?
The idea that Prime could have one shot killed Superman is so mind numbingly stupid it doesn't deserve a response.
He effortlessly blasted a hole in superman's hand. Give me one reason why he couldn't do that to superman's head if he wanted to?

Originally posted by connocr
So y u type many wurds in trick butthurt deefens?

Jsut agree.

Be friendz. Move along.

Dolan?

*Enters Super Serious Mode*

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Dolan?

?

*Exits Super Serious Mode*

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Dolan?

Nope, that sounds like gooby

This no cake walk for prime, wonder if thor can enter warrior madness in this fight, because if so with belt of strength it will increase Thor chance of winning