Superman Vs. Heralds Of Galactus

Started by abhilegend19 pages
abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It means that Superman succeeding in killing a being who was close to death as most of the work was done for him. It certainly doesn't mean that Superman just sang Darkseid out of existence.

I'm not forcing my opinion on anything. It's based on actual comics.

I'm not ignoring anything. The proof in your latest strawman argument can be found a few posts before this one.

"Nobody" believes me as a Superman fan? I guarantee you're wrong on that front, but of course, you'll pull the "majority consensus means nothing" card and go back to being the KMC victim. Lol @ you believing that you have some kind of credibility to dictate who's a "fan" and who's not.


Superman didn't kill Darkseid. Why is that so hard to understand? Dead new gods went back to source wall as shown in Orion's case but Darkseid was erased from existence and so "felled through existence".

Give a single proof of your opinions then.

Yes, you are. "Nuh-huh" wouldn't cut it here.

Feel free to live in your own fantasy world.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Actually, while we're on the subject, Abhi, explain both to me and to the forum, the rest of our peers, why I'm not a Superman fan.

Nice way to deflect things.

JakeTheBank Return of the King

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman didn't kill Darkseid. Why is that so hard to understand? Dead new gods went back to source wall as shown in Orion's case but Darkseid was erased from existence and so "felled through existence".

Give a single proof of your opinions then.

Yes, you are. "Nuh-huh" wouldn't cut it here.

Feel free to live in your own fantasy world.
Nice way to deflect things.

Erased from existence =/= falling through it. He was essentially dead for all intents and purposes, though a part of him lingered on, which we clearly see. In case, I'm not sure how Superman destroying a very weakened and near death Darkseid somehow translates into an one hit kill attack that's unstoppable. I mean, where do you draw the line for this? Is there even one?

I already did.

See above.

😂 You make the claim, a rather baseless one, that I'm not a "real" Superman fan (more than once). I ask you to back up such a claim or make a point, giving you ample opportunity to show 'everyone' who clearly doesn't believe me as a Superman fan just how much of a non-fan I am, and somehow, I'm living in a fantasy world and I'm deflecting.

For future reference, I'd suggest not making stupid ass claims like that.

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Erased from existence =/= falling through it.
Yes it is.
He was essentially dead for all intents and purposes
So why didn't he went to source wall like Orion?,
though a part of him lingered on, which we clearly see.
Haha, now just pulling things out of your ass. Where was this stated that Darkseid was only partially dead like Voldemort? You are flip-flopping more than zopzop at this point.
In case, I'm not sure how Superman destroying a very weakened and near death Darkseid somehow translates into an one hit kill attack that's unstoppable.
He erased a being large enough to drag the multiverse alongside him.
I mean, where do you draw the line for this? Is there even one?
Its well above the likes of surfer and stardust for sure.

I already did.
No you didn't.

See above.
For you flip-flopping? No thanks.

😂 You make the claim, a rather baseless one, that I'm not a "real" Superman fan (more than once).
Which you're not.
I ask you to back up such a claim or make a point, giving you ample opportunity to show 'everyone' who clearly doesn't believe me as a Superman fan just how much of a non-fan I am, and somehow, I'm living in a fantasy world and I'm deflecting.
I would not. Just like you are doing in this thread. You provide a proof for your claims first.

For future reference, I'd suggest not making stupid ass claims like that.
I can say the same to you too. Partially dead, haha.

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Erased from existence =/= falling through it. He was essentially dead for all intents and purposes, though a part of him lingered on, which we clearly see. In case, I'm not sure how Superman destroying a very weakened and near death Darkseid somehow translates into an one hit kill attack that's unstoppable. I mean, where do you draw the line for this? Is there even one?

I already did.

See above.

😂 You make the claim, a rather baseless one, that I'm not a "real" Superman fan (more than once). I ask you to back up such a claim or make a point, giving you ample opportunity to show 'everyone' who clearly doesn't believe me as a Superman fan just how much of a non-fan I am, and somehow, I'm living in a fantasy world and I'm deflecting.

For future reference, I'd suggest not making stupid ass claims like that.

👆

-Pr- Hey Yo!

Guys, how about you come up with a tactic that's actually viable in a forum fight?

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by abhilegend
Even that Darkseid was dragging the multiverse behind him. That's how superman and the universe ended up in Mandrakk's realm.

You mean vibrations+counter-vibrations=cancellation and "felled through existence" isn't enough for you?
Orion was dead, not erased from existence like Darkseid. Darkseid didn't ended up back in source, he "felled through existence to his doom" after superman erased his essence.

Last I checked, the Source itself is beyond time/space/reality... Existence itself. Either way, I'm not saying that Darkseid was unquestionably still alive. Just saying that IF he were still alive, it certainly wasn't because of Superman's wish... It would be more likely that he was never truly dead to begin with.

And again: the "fell through existence to his doom" line could absolutely be in reference to Darkseid's initial fall from the 4th World into mainstream DC. Darkseid was falling into "hell" regardless what anyone did(remember, he was "wounded beyond repair" during his battle with Orion-- he was already dead before FC even started), but he was trying to take the whole multiverse down with him in the process.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Oh really? Then tell me Galan, how did Ogama remembered Mandrakk?

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16188349/28.jpg.html

As your scan says, Rox Ogama had already "drank from the bitter cup of Mandrakk." That's why he was all vampire-like before Supes even fought Mandrakk(I):
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16190550/FC_SM_Beyond_02_Page_018.jpg.html
The essence of Mandrakk already flowed through his veins before Mandrakk(I) was erased in the Overvoid-- Mandrakk lived within Ogama...That's the best explanation I can come up with. /shrug

Regardless, it's clear that the energies/idea that composed Orion weren't erased from existence-- they just sublimated back to the Source upon his death. There is really no reason to assume that Darkseid's death was any different-- you keep acting like it was stated on panel that Darkseid was "erased from existence." It wasn't.

/point.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Just saw this...

Originally posted by abhilegend
I don't know. Omega beams are not truly dependent on Darkseid. He just accesses them from Omega realm as a conduit.
Omega... Realm? none

Anyway, the Omega Sanction/Hyper-Adapter were still doing Darkseid's bidding(ie. following Bruce endlessly through time) well after the events of FC. I have never once seen Darkseid's Omega energies act completely independent from him-- they've always required a conscious act of will on his part to be effective.

...But you're saying the Omega Sanction is the exception to this rule?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Mandrakk was on panel erased from existence to the point that even his idea was lost yet his blood was still able to change Ogama and Ultraman. Now you're flat out ignoring on panel proofs.
Lol, as I pointed out above: Ogama was ALREADY Mandrakk/Vampire-esque BEFORE CA Supes even began battling the original Mandrakk:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16190550/FC_SM_Beyond_02_Page_018.jpg.html

It seems like you're the one ignoring on panel proofs.

Diesldude Senior Member

Doesn't superman need the MM to sing people out of existence? Is the Machine allowed in this fight?

Merlyn Order Of...

Originally posted by Galan007
To be fair, that scan could be in reference to Darkseid's fall from the 4th World into mainstream DC-- not his 'death' at the hands of Superman. Remember, it was this 'fall' that was responsible for, essentially, flushing the multiverse down the cosmic toilet.

This was originally hinted at when we saw Darkseid's initial 'fall' from the 4th World...

"I'm the only one who can see the shadow. This gigantic shadow cast across the entire multiverse. Falling over everything.":
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16187744/1.jpg.html

"Darkseid's falling, dragging the whole universe down as he goes. The entire structure of existence! The whole multiverse, Wally!":
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16187746/3.jpg.html

"Like I said--entire multiverse--avalanching into oblivion.":
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16187847/8.jpg.html

We actually saw this illustrated a number of times:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16187795/4.jpg.html

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16187797/5.jpg.html

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16187846/7.jpg.html

The reason that Darkseid was 'dragging the multiverse down with him' is because "there is a black hole where his heart should be.":
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16187799/6.jpg.html
(this could explain the "black hole at the base of creation" statement in the scan you posted.)

Nice explanation!

I've always been curuous though; when Darkside said that he had a black hole where his heart should be did he mean that literally or figuratively? I mean was there really a tiny black hole in his chest, or did he mean it like his heart is so evil that is sucks in all light and any chances of hope?

ODG Find Your Own Fire

Originally posted by Diesldude
Doesn't superman need the MM to sing people out of existence? Is the Machine allowed in this fight?
???

That singing feat was all Superman. The Miracle Machine had nothing to do with it.

The Miracle Machine wasn't even functional at that point. After Superman sang his notes, the subsequent absolute silence allowed Superman to pick up on the trace of Element X in Metron's chair and with it, he finally completed the Miracle Machine schematics. Even after that, he still had to expend the last of his solar reserves to power the thing before activating his wish.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by Merlyn
Nice explanation!

I've always been curuous though; when Darkside said that he had a black hole where his heart should be did he mean that literally or figuratively? I mean was there really a tiny black hole in his chest, or did he mean it like his heart is so evil that is sucks in all light and any chances of hope?

It was a literal statement, as this scene from the preceding issue confirmed...

Barry: "Darkseid is sitting at the center of a personal singularity. Beyond the reach of light. To get to him we'll have to run faster than we ever have before.":
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16191263/Untitled-26.jpg.html

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

Originally posted by Galan007
Last I checked, the Source itself is beyond time/space/reality... Existence itself.
It is? I've never seen such an evidence. I've seen boom tubes making it to the heart of source itself.
Either way, I'm not saying that Darkseid was unquestionably still alive.
I'm not disputing that.
Just saying that IF he were still alive, it certainly wasn't because of Superman's wish... It would be more likely that he was never truly dead to begin with.
I never said he was killed. I said he was erased from existence. If he had died, he could resurrect himself.

And again: the "fell through existence to his doom" line could absolutely be in reference to Darkseid's initial fall from the 4th World into mainstream DC.
No it can't be. When that was mentioned, he himself said that he was taking DCU to a hell from which they could never escape for an eternity. Not that he was dragging them to non-existence. That was the place superman encountered mandrakk.
Darkseid was falling into "hell" regardless what anyone did(remember, he was "wounded beyond repair" during his battle with Orion-- he was already dead before FC even started), but he was trying to take the whole multiverse down with him in the process.
He left "hell deserted" when he fell through the existence. His "fall through existence" was caused by superman erasing him out of existence, not by his fall through the DC multiverse.

As your scan says, Rox Ogama had already "drank from the bitter cup of Mandrakk."
Yes. By your theory Mandrakk's blood should've been erased from existence since Mandrakk's "even idea was lost" and it should've never worked on Ultraman, right?
That's why he was all vampire-like before Supes even fought Mandrakk(I):
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16190550/FC_SM_Beyond_02_Page_018.jpg.html
That's Monitors' true form. They were vampires to begin with. Here Ogama is in his normal monitor form after Mandrakk was erased from existence.

And here is he transforming in mandrakk.

Its clear that he drank and transformed into mandrakk after the real mandrakk was erased from existence unless you think every monitor drank from Mandrakk's cup because they were all vampires in that scene.

The essence of Mandrakk already flowed through his veins before Mandrakk(I) was erased in the Overvoid-- Mandrakk lived within Ogama...That's the best explanation I can come up with. /shrug
How about ultraman? He certainly drank Mandrakk's blood after his eraser.

Regardless, it's clear that the energies/idea that composed Orion weren't erased from existence-- they just sublimated back to the Source upon his death.
True.
There is really no reason to assume that Darkseid's death was any different-- you keep acting like it was stated on panel that Darkseid was "erased from existence." It wasn't.
Except there is no proof that Darkseid died too. There is at least two points indicating that he was erased from existence, superman's words and monitors.

/point.
Not IMO.

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

Originally posted by Galan007
Just saw this...
Omega... Realm? none
Its not like you to not know about things galan.

Anyway, the Omega Sanction/Hyper-Adapter were still doing Darkseid's bidding(ie. following Bruce endlessly through time) well after the events of FC. I have never once seen Darkseid's Omega energies act completely independent from him-- they've always required a conscious act of will on his part to be effective.
Not always. There are times when Darkseid has died and Omega energies have worked on their own accord. Like in the JLA 184 when he was entombed in source wall (which essentially kills a person) and his powers still defeated the whole JSA. His entire power is omega power btw, when his omega energies are drained from him he is powerless.

...But you're saying the Omega Sanction is the exception to this rule?
I'm saying that if Darkseid pre-programmed omega beams to enrich themselves and destroy the whole DCU, its entirely possible that they can act on their own accord.

Lol, as I pointed out above: Ogama was ALREADY Mandrakk/Vampire-esque BEFORE CA Supes even began battling the original Mandrakk:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16190550/FC_SM_Beyond_02_Page_018.jpg.html
I explained that above.

It seems like you're the one ignoring on panel proofs.
Not really.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by abhilegend
I never said he was killed. I said he was erased from existence.
Post the scan in which it is explicitly stated that Darkseid was "erased from existence." Superman's line about "canceling out" Darkseid's vibrational frequency is an ambiguous phrase that can be taken a few ways.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Its clear that he drank and transformed into mandrakk after the real mandrakk was erased from existence unless you think every monitor drank from Mandrakk's cup because they were all vampires in that scene.
Lol, it's clear, is it?

Well then: scans of Ogama drinking some sort of physical juice(?) after Mandrakk was killed? Scans depicting this alleged cup at all? Scans that disprove the notion that Ogama's line was purely figurative/meta-physical?

---

I didn't bother responding to the rest of your wall-o-text, because your entire argument hinges on a 'point' that you have yet to prove(opinion=/=proof, btw.) I'm not falling into your red-herrings.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not always. There are times when Darkseid has died and Omega energies have worked on their own accord. Like in the JLA 184 when he was entombed in source wall (which essentially kills a person) and his powers still defeated the whole JSA. His entire power is omega power btw, when his omega energies are drained from him he is powerless.
No. The Source Wall doesn't kill its inhabitants, it simply imprisons them.

Not only was Darkseid's mind still fully functional while he was on the Source Wall(which explains how he was still able to control his Omega powers while imprisoned), but he even referred to his stint on the Wall specifically as "containment", not death:

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

Originally posted by Galan007
Post the scan in which it is explicitly stated that Darkseid was "erased from existence." Superman's line about "canceling out" Darkseid's vibrational frequency is an ambiguous phrase that can be taken a few ways.
Combine that with Monitors' statements and you would see only one way to explain what happened with Darkseid, he was erased from existence.

Lol, it's clear, is it?
Yes it is.

Well then: scans of Ogama drinking some sort of physical juice(?) after Mandrakk was killed? Scans depicting this alleged cup at all? Scans that disprove the notion that Ogama's line was purely figurative/meta-physical?
The fact that Ultraman was transformed by the blood of Mandrakk and we saw Ogama transforming from Monitor to Mandrakk II too isn't enough?

I didn't bother responding to the rest of your wall-o-text, because your entire argument hinges on a 'point' that you have yet to prove(opinion=/=proof, btw.) I'm not falling into your red-herrings.
C'mon galan. This wouldn't work on me. Either counter my point or don't. Calling them red-herrings isn't going to cut it.

No. The Source Wall doesn't kill its inhabitants, it simply imprisons them.
Sorry, mistook it with going inside the wall. I recall Darkseid was dead at that point when he was placed on the source wall.

Not only was Darkseid's mind still fully functional while he was on the Source Wall(which explains how he was still able to control his Omega powers while imprisoned), but he even referred to his stint on the Wall specifically as "containment", not death:
Funny, superman didn't remember a bit when he was imprisoned on the source wall after Darkseid imprisoned him.

Rage.Of.Olympus Senior Member

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, he was still big enough to drag the whole multiverse besides him.

After superman erased him from existence. That was the last attack on darkseid.

Yes.

I'll wait for Galan to confirm this as I don't trust your word unfortunately.

Iyo maybe, it was pretty clearly referring to the fall. Not to mention it said doom, not erased from existence.

Then prove it.

psycho gundam The Nightmare of Solomon

The true question is where do we place abhi in the list of superman's weaknesses? Not quite kryptonite but definitely above red solar rays

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by abhilegend
Combine that with Monitors' statements and you would see only one way to explain what happened with Darkseid, he was erased from existence.
You're dodging the question. Again: post the scan in which it is explicitly stated that Darkseid was "erased from existence." Superman's line about "canceling out" Darkseid's vibrational frequency is an ambiguous phrase that can be taken a few ways.

If you fail to provide this evidence in your subsequent post, I will take it as your concession that no such evidence exists.

Originally posted by abhilegend
The fact that Ultraman was transformed by the blood of Mandrakk and we saw Ogama transforming from Monitor to Mandrakk II too isn't enough?
You're dodging this question as well. Again: scans of Ogama drinking some sort of physical juice(?) after Mandrakk was killed? Scans depicting this alleged cup at all? Scans that disprove the notion that Ogama's line was purely figurative/meta-physical?

If you fail to provide this evidence in your subsequent post, I will take it as your concession that no such evidence exists.

Originally posted by abhilegend
C'mon galan. This wouldn't work on me. Either counter my point or don't. Calling them red-herrings isn't going to cut it.
Lol, you're trying to avoid the question(s) by posting irrelevant crap that doesn't pertain to anything asked. That literally defines a red herring. The next portion of your post is a perfect example...

Originally posted by abhilegend
Funny, superman didn't remember a bit when he was imprisoned on the source wall after Darkseid imprisoned him.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16076090/Superman_Batman_25-0203.JPG.html

Cool. Good thing the original question was centered around Darkseid, not Superman-- and Darkseid's memory was still fully intact whilst he was imprisoned on the Wall:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16192017/2.jpg.html
If anything, the scan you posted simply proves that Darkseid's mind/senses>>Superman's. Good job. 👆

See what you tried to do there? That is a red herring. It doesn't work on me, though-- I don't feed the fish. 🙂

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'll wait for Galan to confirm this as I don't trust your word unfortunately.
Given that the entirety of Darkseid's essence appeared to be contained in the same room that Superman was in, I think it's safe to say that he was not the size of the entire multiverse:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16193054/FC07-024.jpg.html
It's also clear that Superman's 'song' was a very short-lived/intense burst of counter-vibrational energy. It certainly didn't appear vast enough to stretch across the entire multiverse. srsly

Fact is: Darkseid was a singularity-- a singularity so powerful that it was able to pull the entire multiverse into it. He certainly wasn't the size of the multiverse, though. That's ridiculous.

Rage.Of.Olympus Senior Member

Thanks. I just automatically assume anything he says is a lie at this point.

We should just all put him on ignore for like a week, let him and h1 drive each other to the rope. Is it mean that I want to watch the slow kids fight?