Sans kaio-ken amping, I can't imagine base Goku being on par with 100% Frieza-- even during the Cell Games.
100% Frieza's PL=120,000,000. If Goku's base PL were equal to Frieza's, then it'd put his SSJ PL at 6 billion(120 million*50=6 billion.) That just seems WAY too high, imo.
Tbh, I think even half of that PL(3 billion) would be a stretch, and that'd only put Goku's base PL at 60,000,000-- which means he would be roughly equal to 50% Frieza.
Originally posted by Galan007Or Broly just recreated the galaxy. He's basically a god, you know.
So Broly destroyed the entire galaxy except for the dozens of 'residual' stars, and multiple planets(at the very least) we saw whizzing by Goku as he was IT'ing through the south galaxy..? C'mon. If stars and planets were still left intact, then it means Broly's energies either: a.) didn't expand outward enough to reach them, or b.) weren't powerful enough to destroy them.
Originally posted by Galan007
Moments before launching his Kamehameha, Cell flat-out stated that he'd "gathered enough ki to destroy the whole solar system." Assuming he was capable of destroying [that much] more than he said he could destroy is horrendously faulty, as you are: a.) putting words in his mouth, and b.) applying a no-limits fallacy on his powerset.More faulty still is your assertion that restrained Broly and base-level Goku were able to destroy "most of" a galaxy, when a charged-up Super-Perfect Cell only commented on being able to destroy the solar system. A vastly weaker character cannot destroy more than a vastly stronger character. Simple.
I just reread the Cell scene and you are correct. I agreed with you a while back on the Galaxy busting ft so I don't have any other comments about this topic. I still think you are underestimating Base Goku power level though but with that said, I'm giving you a thumbs up in agreement.
That ft still put Broly somewhere around Solar System+ power.
Originally posted by Galan007
Sans kaio-ken amping, I can't imagine base Goku being on par with 100% Frieza-- even during the Cell Games.100% Frieza's PL=120,000,000. If Goku's base PL were equal to Frieza's, then it'd put his SSJ PL at 6 billion(120 million*50=6 billion.) That just seems WAY too high, imo.
Tbh, I think even half of that PL(3 billion) would be a stretch, and that'd only put Goku's base PL at 60,000,000-- which means he would be roughly equal to 50% Frieza.
The first time base Goku makes a fool of Frieza is GT...and that doesn't count. lol
Originally posted by Galan007So anything this base Goku can do, Freeza can do better?
Sans kaio-ken amping, I can't imagine base Goku being on par with 100% Frieza-- even during the Cell Games.100% Frieza's PL=120,000,000. If Goku's base PL were equal to Frieza's, then it'd put his SSJ PL at 6 billion(120 million*50=6 billion.) That just seems WAY too high, imo.
Tbh, I think even half of that PL(3 billion) would be a stretch, and that'd only put Goku's base PL at 60,000,000-- which means he would be roughly equal to 50% Frieza.
Originally posted by NemeBroYou know your shit, my friend. clapclap
Or Broly just recreated the galaxy. He's basically a god, you know.
Originally posted by carver9👆
I just reread the Cell scene and you are correct. I agreed with you a while back on the Galaxy busting ft so I don't have any other comments about this topic. I still think you are underestimating Base Goku power level though but with that said, I'm giving you a thumbs up in agreement.
Originally posted by dadudemonLol, and the GT multipliers were phucking ridiculous anyway.
The first time base Goku makes a fool of Frieza is GT...and that doesn't count. lol
Originally posted by BloodRainw/o kaio-ken amping, yes.
So anything this base Goku can do, Freeza can do better?
Originally posted by Galan007I can
Sans kaio-ken amping, I can't imagine base Goku being on par with 100% Frieza-- even during the Cell Games.100% Frieza's PL=120,000,000. If Goku's base PL were equal to Frieza's, then it'd put his SSJ PL at 6 billion(120 million*50=6 billion.) That just seems WAY too high, imo.
Tbh, I think even half of that PL(3 billion) would be a stretch, and that'd only put Goku's base PL at 60,000,000-- which means he would be roughly equal to 50% Frieza.
Originally posted by ShadeSlayer15You have a very wild imagination, then.
I can
At the end of the Frieza saga, Goku's PL was 150,000,000. When he returned to earth a year later and met Trunks, his power likely wasn't a whole lot greater, given that the inhabitants of Yardrat were quite weak, and had little to offer him aside from IT(Goku explicitly stated this.) Let's be generous, though, and assume his PL was 200,000,000.
Then he half-ass trained during the 3 year hiatus between the Frieza and Android saga. Let's over-exaggerate and assume his PL doubled to 400,000,000 when he confronted 19 & 20.
Then he contracted the heart disease, and healed from that. Even though it wasn't even alluded to that Goku received a zenkai from that, and even though Goku outright stated that he still wasn't powerful enough to beat 17 & 18 at the time, let's assume his PL inextricably jumped to 500,000,000.
Almost immediately after recovering, he trained in the time chamber with Gohan for less than a full year, and you believe his PL skyrocketed from 500 million(which is a VAST overestimation to begin with) to 6 billion by the end of said training? You realize this equates to an increase of 1,100%, right? I could agree that Goku's PL quadrupled or even hextupled during his training-- but it most certainly did not duodecuple. none
Tbh it should not be possible for base Goku to have a PL of 120,000,000, but sadly the Namek sagas massive PL jumps could say otherwise.
A lifetime of training got Goku = ~1,000
A year training with King Kai/10g = 8,000
Zenkai + few months training/100g = 90,000
Zenkai = 3,000,000
According to the Namek!boosts 3 years training, a zenkai and half a year of 10g training could push him up to 120,000,000 (well in multiplying, not addition).
...Even though its a fact later on that the 2x SS2 boost is a major increase. Oh DB, you and your power levels.
Originally posted by BloodRain...Which is why we can say with a fair amount of certainty that we didn't see the same exponential increases in PLs, post-Frieza saga.
...Even though its a fact later on that the 2x SS2 boost is a [b]major increase. Oh DB, you and your power levels. [/B]
Like you said: Gohan's PL only doubled when he went SSJ2, and the rest of the Z-fighters were literally in awe of such a massive boost.
Originally posted by ShadeSlayer15From what I've seen/read, Bills toyed with SSJ3 Goku as though he were a weak feeb-- he literally beat SSJ3 Goku with a single finger. He also trounced Mystic Gohan like fodder.
I wonder how stong ssj God is/
Yet after transforming into a SSJG, Goku was able to put up an extremely good fight against Bills-- their powers were near-equal, with Bills having the ever-so-slight advantage. ie. SSJG=~Bills>>>>>Mystic Gohan>>SSJ3 Goku.
So clearly the multiplier between a SSJ3 and a SSJG is huge. No way to say exactly how huge, though.
Originally posted by juggerman
Well seeing as how SSJ3 Goku was equal to SSJ1 Gotenks and SSJ3 Gotenks was super duper inferior to Mystic Gohan...I'd say it multiplied Goku by at least a kerjillion parsecs
Based on canon information, it cannot be determined if SSJ1 Gotenks was stronger than SSJ3 Goku.
The only thing we can know is SSJ1 Gotenks and SSJ3 Gotenks is somewhere around SSJ3 Goku with the SSJ3 most likely being stronger than SSJ3 Goku (but not certain).