Cool fight.
I can see Captain America blocking Wolverine's claws with the shield. Moment he loses the shield he is at a huge disadvantage. Cap will probably dodge a few of the swings, but he wasn't exactly unhittable. Wolverine will tag him sooner than later.
Captain America is stronger, faster and has more agility. I wonder if one solid blow to the head from Cap's shield would be enough to knock Logan out. So one would have to wonder if Cap's shield and superhuman strength can produce force on par with a bullet to the head.
If it can't then this is Wolvie's fight to lose.
Edit Haven't seen Wolverine's new movie.
To chop off Wolverine's claws, you need to be very very very strong AND have a superheated adamantium blade.
The other option is a specially designed adamantium bullet...
Translation: there is no way Captain is taking off Wolverine's claws.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Cap's superior strength plus Vibranium shield, added to the fact that Wolverine has shown he can be knocked out by far less, means a good blow to the head from Cap and Wolverine is out.Once knocked out Cap can decide how to dispose of him more permanently.
Wolverine is on par or exceeds Captain in the strength department.
He stabbed two fully armored and loaded special ops invaders in the mansion, while on his knees, and he threw the backwards with just his arms, alone.
Captain's best feat is punching a punching bag off a rope (not holding those people up...because it looked like a stage prop and it still would not produce as much force as Wolverine had to produce to throw those two men, several meters).
Originally posted by FrothByte
There's some advantage there but very minimal. It's stronger neck muscles and stronger jaw muscles that would make it harder to move.
I debated this with Oliver North a couple of years back. Stronger neck muscles make it significantly less likely to get knocked out. A study was done by the NFL that showed this.
I agree that Captain is more agile. They really really toned down Wolverine's more animalistic nature in the live action movies.
Originally posted by Impediment
Already been done, but I'll allow it.
Good mod is good.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Wolverine is on par or exceeds Captain in the strength department.He stabbed two fully armored and loaded special ops invaders in the mansion, while on his knees, and he threw the backwards with just his arms, alone.
Captain's best feat is punching a punching bag off a rope (not holding those people up...because it looked like a stage prop and it still would not produce as much force as Wolverine had to produce to throw those two men, several meters).
I debated this with Oliver North a couple of years back. Stronger neck muscles make it significantly less likely to get knocked out. A study was done by the NFL that showed this.
Cap's best strength feat is throwing a fully armored hydra soldier like 20 ft up in the air. And not sure why you're discounting the motorcycle carrying feat. There was no reason to believe that it was just "props". Carrying a full motorcycle with 3-4 women sitting on top of it is a greater strength feat than Wolverine has ever displayed. Just because it was done on a stage doesn't mean it's fake.
As for neck muscles, yes I agree. Boxers have neck exercises specifically meant to strengthen their neck muscles to avoid getting knocked out.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Nah, look how easily Sabertooth knocked him out in X1. It wasn't anywhere near several hits. And that was without an indestructible weapon. Cap only needs one good hit to the head.
Wasn't Sabertooth uprooting trees in that movie? That would put his strength way beyond anything Steve has shown.
Originally posted by Darth Martin
"Far better at fighting"? Sure.Skip to 1:54 of the video. I already conceded that Wolverine was more durable.
Okay...you showed a video of Cap taking out a few chitari...I seem to recall him getting shot later on and being down, if it wasn't for thor the guy woulda been dead
You conceded wolverine was more durable sure, but durable and a good sense of smell is not all wolverine is. He's a much better fighter, he's got a healing factor, he's got an unbreakable skeleton...well kinda...and he's got his claws. Any damage Steve dishes out wolverine will just heal, any damage wolverine dishes out Steve isn't going to heal like wolverine does.
Originally posted by dadudemonThe other option is a specially designed adamantium bullet...
Clearly Adamantium with enough force behind it can damage other Adamantium.
So it would be reasonable to assume a large Vibranium weapon with Cap's strength behind it could be a threat to Wolverine's Adamantium bones and claws. But yes I agree it won't just outright chop through them like butter.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Wolverine is on par or exceeds Captain in the strength department.He stabbed two fully armored and loaded special ops invaders in the mansion, while on his knees, and he threw the backwards with just his arms, alone.
Captain's best feat is punching a punching bag off a rope (not holding those people up...because it looked like a stage prop and it still would not produce as much force as Wolverine had to produce to throw those two men, several meters).
No. Just no. Cap is much stronger and faster and more agile. In the mansion there's a scene where Wolverine is struggling to fight off just one soldier before he gets his claws out and stabs him.
Cap carries a motorcycle with 3 people with ease, and sends people flying many meters every time he hits, and punches through a submarine and a boxing bag.
There's no strength contest there.
Originally posted by ares834
Wasn't Sabertooth uprooting trees in that movie? That would put his strength way beyond anything Steve has shown.
Well I'm not saying Cap's just going to knock him out with a punch. But Cap was pretty strong himself. So his strength plus indestrucltible weapon hitting Wolverine in the head should daze him at least.
I'm obviously not expecting Cap to take Wolverine out that quickly. It would definitely be a good fight that can go both ways.
Originally posted by ares834
Wasn't Sabertooth uprooting trees in that movie? That would put his strength way beyond anything Steve has shown.
Well I'm not saying Cap's just going to knock him out with a punch. But Cap was pretty strong himself. So his strength plus indestrucltible weapon hitting Wolverine in the head should daze him at least.
I'm obviously not expecting Cap to take Wolverine out that quickly. It would definitely be a good fight that can go both ways.
Originally posted by ares834
All Wolverine has to do is lang one hit to win... Cap needs to land several to even have a chance of knocking Wolverine out.Wolverine wins this.
Wolverine has to get through Caps shield and it would take more than just one hit to KO cap. I'm willing to bet that a direct hit to Wolverines head from Caps shield could KO him in one hit with enough force. A bullet to the head can knock Wolverine out.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Cap's best strength feat is throwing a fully armored hydra soldier like 20 ft up in the air.
No, it was the punching bag. 🙂
Unless, of course, you think the punching bag was suspended by a really really shiiiittty rope.
Originally posted by FrothByte
And not sure why you're discounting the motorcycle carrying feat.
Because it was a prop and he was moving around underneath it while the prop stayed in the same place.
And it is a feat that could easily be replicated by humans...really strong ones. The dude that used to have the world record for the bench press did a similar pose with three women and a couch.
Originally posted by FrothByte
There was no reason to believe that it was just "props".
I agree if one takes a blind eye to the obvious prop-iness of the situation and ignore that montage was showing him on stage with people.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Carrying a full motorcycle with 3-4 women sitting on top of it is a greater strength feat than Wolverine has ever displayed.
Wrong. What Cap did in that scene, if we ignore my correct take on the situation, is within human standards. If you want to pretend that it his greatest strength feat, you're going to greatly underestimate Cap.
And Wolverine throwing those men, backwards, is by far a greater strength feat than anything Captain did including bending those bars. You just don't understand the kinematics involved with pulling something like that off.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Just because it was done on a stage doesn't mean it's fake.
Just because it was done on stage does not mean it was real.
That makes less sense than what you said.
What makes it fake is the obvious fake appearance of the setup.
Originally posted by FrothByte
As for neck muscles, yes I agree. Boxers have neck exercises specifically meant to strengthen their neck muscles to avoid getting knocked out.
You had better agree: if you disagreed, you'd be factually incorrect. uhuh
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Clearly Adamantium with enough force behind it can damage other Adamantium.
No, not force: pressure. It is a force per unit area thing. Or, PSI. OR, pascals.
I can punch you in the face with a thousand more times of force than a bullet can hit you in the face. By my fist will never ever travel straight through your head like a bullet. Why? It delivers much more force per unit area and it overcomes the, to put it bluntly, the durability of the materials that comprise your face.
Also, with Adamantium, there seems to be something quite strange going on. Plain blade on blade does not break adamantium, regardless of the superhuman forces involved (the robot was able to swing a giant ass sword made of adamantium which, according to the comics, is at least partially comprised of iron and would therefore have a density in the ballpark of iron...meaning that is one heavy ass sword). It required a superheated blade to break the crap-tier adamantium in the film.
The exception was a "sharp" bullet made of adamantium. It was a pretty damn big bullet, too, meaning, it would deviler much more impact pressure than just a regular bullet.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
So it would be reasonable to assume a large Vibranium weapon with Cap's strength behind it could be a threat to Wolverine's Adamantium bones and claws. But yes I agree it won't just outright chop through them like butter.
No, that would be unreasonable unless his shield was superheated. In which case, Cap would not be able to wield it.
As far as strength goes, the robot is >>>>>>>>>> Captain in strength.
As far as the forces per unit area produced, an unheated blade would produce a lot more "Pascal’s" at the impact on Wolverine's claws than anything the captain could do with his shield because the captain's shield has a significantly higher blunt edge than wolverine's claws. To understand the physics of this, there is a much much smaller impact area between wolverine's claws and the robot's sword edge than there would be with wolverine's claws and the Cap's shield.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
No. Just no. Cap is much stronger
Now now, don't fanboy on me. The science disagrees. By strength feats, the ratio of strength between movie Cap and movie Wolverine has Wolverine about 2 times stronger than the Cap (my original math had it at about 1.9 and when I did it again it was 2.09 so I split the difference and settled on 2).
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
and faster and more agile.
I am not sure about the faster: that's debatable if you use the high end feats. But definitely on the agile part which I stated in my post.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
In the mansion there's a scene where Wolverine is struggling to fight off just one soldier before he gets his claws out and stabs him.
You can't use CIS or PIS to debate. If we go that route, there are some stupid low-end feats from Captain, as well.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Cap carries a motorcycle with 3 people with ease, and sends people flying many meters every time he hits, and punches through a submarine and a boxing bag.There's no strength contest there.
I agree. Wolverine cut through 1.5 foot solid steel doors, could walk against the hurricane levels of plasma wind that were easily blowing away reinforced military structures and instantly vaporizing regular humans and mutants alike; can throw 200+ pound men, while on his knees, several meters, with one arm, backwards, while holding them up for a few seconds (removes inertia from the system and makes it significantly more difficult to do the toss).
There really is no strength contest as Wolverine is clearly significantly stronger than the Captain. 🙂
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well I'm not saying Cap's just going to knock him out with a punch. But Cap was pretty strong himself. So his strength plus indestrucltible weapon hitting Wolverine in the head should daze him at least.I'm obviously not expecting Cap to take Wolverine out that quickly. It would definitely be a good fight that can go both ways.
Going with Wolverine's high-end strength feats, Steve has no hope of knocking out Wolverine as he stood up to the Blob's punches...and angry Blob...and didn't get knocked out.
Now, from high-end feats, it takes smacking Wolverine in the head with a tree, knocking him 20 meters, to knock Wolverine out. That's just not something Steve can do in a single punch. Maybe a barrage of connections in a very short period of time might be enough (to overcome Wolvie's healing factor).
What I'd like to see if someone argue that Wolverine has the fighthing agility to go toe to toe with Steve's quick hands and agility.
Did wolverine show enough reaction speed in his claw-to-sword fight with the son in the movie (the one that happened in the dark). If so, then, yes, Steve has not even a slight chance of winning against Wolverine.
If no, then this thread got interesting.
Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
A bullet to the head can knock Wolverine out.
Gotta stick with high-end feats.
But that "low-end" feat can be explained:
The theory goes: he made it look like he was knocked out so people wouldn't freak out by a person just standing around after getting shot in the head: Xavier had an agenda and Wolverine was onboard.
If an angered Blob could not knock Wolverine out, then there is no way Captain can knock him out.
Originally posted by dadudemon
No, it was the punching bag. 🙂Unless, of course, you think the punching bag was suspended by a really really shiiiittty rope.
Because it was a prop and he was moving around underneath it while the prop stayed in the same place.
And it is a feat that could easily be replicated by humans...really strong ones. The dude that used to have the world record for the bench press did a similar pose with three women and a couch.
I agree if one takes a blind eye to the obvious prop-iness of the situation and ignore that montage was showing him on stage with people.
Wrong. What Cap did in that scene, if we ignore my correct take on the situation, is within human standards. If you want to pretend that it his greatest strength feat, you're going to greatly underestimate Cap.
And Wolverine throwing those men, backwards, is by far a greater strength feat than anything Captain did including bending those bars. You just don't understand the kinematics involved with pulling something like that off.
Just because it was done on stage does not mean it was real.
That makes less sense than what you said.
What makes it fake is the obvious fake appearance of the setup.
There's a difference between punching power and strength. A world strongman champion will never punch as strongly as a heavyweight boxer. That doesn't mean that the boxer can out-push a stronman.
Cap punching through the submarine window and taking down that punching bag was his best feat of punching/striking power. And quite frankly, it shits over any striking feat Wolverine has.
However when it comes to pure strength display, then his best feats were holding up that bike with women on it, and throwing that hydra soldier straight up in the air.
I don't need kinematics because simple physics is sufficient to disprove your points.
1. A burst of energy is always easier to achieve than sustaining the same energy for a duration of time. So Wolverine throwing 2 men is not quite as impressive as it would have been had he picked them both up and held them in the air for a continuous amount of time. Granted, the distance at which he threw them is pretty impressive, but it's still got nothing on Cap carrying that bike with women on top of it.
lol at that feat being replicated by normal men. The total weight would have been over 1000 lbs. and Cap was holding it with arms fully extended, without showing any strain, for a continuous amount of time.
I re-watched the scene and he wasn't "moving around" the bike. He was perfectly still while holding that bike.
2. The closer to a perpendicular line to the ground that you try to move an object, the more of it's weight you carry. Therefore, throwing something straight up means you're carrying it's entire weight. The closer to a parallel to the ground that you move an object, the less weight you're required to move. Meaning the more horizontal you move an object, the less of it's weight you're required to move. The more vertical you start to move it, the more weight you need to deal with. This is physics.
Throwing someone across the room at a certain distance will NEVER be as difficult as throwing someone straight up at the same distance. Of course Wolverine did throw 2 of those guys, but then I'll redirect you to the motorcycle feat again.
Fact is, Captain America is consistent in his strength feats. Even his shield bashes have enemies flipping head over heels. Wolverine has very inconsistent strength feats, and most of them he only does when his claws are involved. What makes Wolverine so dangerous in this fight is his durability and his claws. Pretty sure a claw stab/slash will hurt Cap more than a shield bash will hurt Logan.
But what Cap has on his side is strength, agility, and skill.
Originally posted by KingD19
If you're going to pretend that he never took greater forces than what KO'd him without any problems, why not?
We're not disregarding his high end feats. I don't think anyone here said that Cap can KO Wolverine with one shot. All I'm saying (and others too I believe) is that it's POSSIBLE to KO Wolverine, and that Cap has the tools to do it even though it will be very difficult for him.