Originally posted by dadudemon
First of all, I said lightweight. Second of all, I'm still undefeated, 11-0, MMA. I'm also a former powerlifter that took 6th in the state for my weight class.Lastly, I went to school for physics.
So, yeah, I clearly know what I'm talking about.
But, if you don't believe me, ask Derek Poundstone to punch you in the head, as hard as he can.
Then compare that to a punch from a prime Larry Holmes
Let me know who punched you harder, brah.
(I'm not being fair...Larry Holmes was a champion in his prime. Poundstone has never won the World's Strongest Man).
hahahahahaahaha
Arm strength has almost everything to do with punching power.
Go tell Rampage that he doesn't punch hard because he's strong, he punches hard because it is "all technique, brah". Let me know what he says.
Here, I'll make it easier on you: one day, in class (boxing), our instructor had this guy....let's call him John....come to the front of the class and punch him as hard as he could right in the gut. Poor John was 120lbs and 5'5". But John had been coming to class for ages and his technique was superb (among the best, according to our instructor).
What were the results of John punching him? Obviously, our instructor was completely unphased. There was probably some redness around the area for 5 minutes but that's just about it.
Why did our instructor do this? To demonstrate that no matter how good you are at punching, if you're weak, your punches will still be weak. Our instructor wanted us to eat better, lift weights, and put on some muscle: that was the lesson.
Granted, he was unorthodox in believing you should never lose weight for a match. But I agree with him: unless you're dropping your bodyfat percentage very slowly over time, you should never drop weight before a match.
You said lightweight. I don't know why you said lightweight when I was saying heavyweight. But whatever.
Undefeated in MMA but you really think arm strength is what dictates punching power?? Oh boy. Either you're lying and you've never fought mma (a video would be nice) or you've never had a decent boxing coach. A boxer's punching power starts from the legs, then the hips, then the torso, and lastly the arms. A boxer trains to maximize all these muscles and puts his entire body behind a punch. That's why a strongman, regardless of the size of his arms or the strength of his arms, will never match a heavyweight boxer's punching power because all he has his arm strength and a bit of torso twisting whereas the boxer has his entire body snapping behind the punch.
Anyway, if I asked a strongman to punch me in the face, sure I'd get knocked out. Heck I could ask the average joe to punch me in the face, and as long as I do nothing and just let him hit me he could knock me out as well.
Also there is something everyone seems to be over looking. Cap showed the ability to calculate the bank on his shield throws on the fly. Im not saying banking a shield toss is gonna help but it shows his ability to judge/calculate distance, speed, angles, and force with extreme accuracy while fighting. I feel it would be a handy tool while trying to go for a KO on Wolverine.
We also have to note that no matter how hard Wolverine hits if Steve blocks with his shield there wont be any give to it.....Unless we are to believe Wolverine can hit harder then Thor AND some how defeat the "physics" around caps shield. We also have to assume that Adamantium and Vibrainium are near equals. Although Adamantium has been cut and pierced while Vibrainium has not.
Originally posted by BlackZero30x
Also there is something everyone seems to be over looking. Cap showed the ability to calculate the bank on his shield throws on the fly. Im not saying banking a shield toss is gonna help but it shows his ability to judge/calculate distance, speed, angles, and force with extreme accuracy while fighting. I feel it would be a handy tool while trying to go for a KO on Wolverine.We also have to note that no matter how hard Wolverine hits if Steve blocks with his shield there wont be any give to it.....Unless we are to believe Wolverine can hit harder then Thor AND some how defeat the "physics" around caps shield. We also have to assume that Adamantium and Vibrainium are near equals. Although Adamantium has been cut and pierced while Vibrainium has not.
Wolvey barely fought Yakuza in a bullet train. Poor form.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Anyway, if I asked a strongman to punch me in the face, sure I'd get knocked out. Heck I could ask the average joe to punch me in the face, and as long as I do nothing and just let him hit me he could knock me out as well.
I'm was stating your facial bones may get broken, not just knocked out.
Man, just thinking about it makes me cringe.
I wouldn't want to get punched in the face by either.
Hey, on a positive note, we agree. You don't realize it but I was saying that it takes a physically fit world's strongest man to reach the levels of momentum created by heavyweight boxers. Meaning, it takes a man on steroids and a massive diet, with lots and lots of strength training to equate the punching power of a man that weighs 201lbs. So, in a way, I was conceding the point and we pretty much agree.
To better apply it to this thread, Blob was obviously a pretty well trained boxer and knew how to throw a punch (he seemed to hang out at that gym and tried to hustle people for money). So both of our points do not apply in this situation.
But that does lend itself to my point much more than yours. My point was: Wolverine can take some stupid powerful punches to the head and not get knocked out. That was our original argument. Captain is nowhere near as strong as Blob. He won't even come anywhere within a magnitude of the momentum generated by Blob's punches.
So will Wolverine get knocked out by Captain's punches? Most definitely not. Would he get knocked out by a shield bash to the skull? Highly likely not...but there might be a chance with repeated bashes in quick succession.
Originally posted by BlackZero30x
We also have to note that no matter how hard Wolverine hits if Steve blocks with his shield there wont be any give to it.
This is a good point. That shield will take anything Wolverine can dish and Captain will be almost completely unphased. It will feel like nothing because the shield's vibranium will absorb almost all the energy from Wolverine's attacks. So, Cap is not going to get fatigued blocking Wolverine's incredible endurance, anytime soon.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Unlikely Cap would get fatiguted anyway, since he does have healing powers himself. Clearly not on Wolverine's scale, but he still has that.
I agree.
It would be down to who can deliver a knock-out or killing blow, first.
Since we agree, is this the part where we touch the tips of our peepees together?
Originally posted by dadudemon
Gotta stick with high-end feats.But that "low-end" feat can be explained:
The theory goes: he made it look like he was knocked out so people wouldn't freak out by a person just standing around after getting shot in the head: Xavier had an agenda and Wolverine was onboard.
If an angered Blob could not knock Wolverine out, then there is no way Captain can knock him out.
I would let you have that one, man even if it's a poor excuse because standing back up from getting shot in the head and seeing the wound heal would be just a freaky to people...,but it's happened twice. Cap has the edge on Wolverine when it comes to strength. They both have endless stamina and Wolverine may be more durable but Caps shield is indestructible.
If the two of them square off and lunge at each other.., Wolverine is flying full force with his claws and adamantium and cap with his enhanced strength and Shield...,Caps shield absorbs all of the force from Wolverine (because that's what the shield does) and Wolverine..,well Wolverine absorbs all of Captain Americas strength from behind his shield while Cap absorbs none. Wolverine would be forced to be on the constant attack and that's where, i think, Cap out wits Wolverine. Either way that shield is going to be making contact to Wolverines skull and i don't have much faith in the movie adaptation of Wolverines skull.
Cap bounced a guy many ft into the air.
Bent a steel bar with his fists.
Held up a motorbike with two chicks on it.
Has a Shield that can withstand any impact.
Has shown shown incredible instincts and foresight during battle.
Logan gets stabbed alot by thugs.
Gets shot alot by thugs.
Got KOed by a bullet.
Can take internal damage like a champ.
If Cap slams Logan against a wall and proceeds to shield bash his skull in. Logan assuredly goes wobbly.
Then it all goes downhill.
Originally posted by the ninjak
Cap bounced a guy many ft into the air.
Bent a steel bar with his fists.
Held up a motorbike with two chicks on it.
Has a Shield that can withstand any impact.
Has shown shown incredible instincts and foresight during battle.Logan gets stabbed alot by thugs.
Gets shot alot by thugs.
Got KOed by a bullet.
Can take internal damage like a champ.If Cap slams Logan against a wall and proceeds to shield bash his skull in. Logan assuredly goes wobbly.
Then it all goes downhill.
He gets shot a lot because he can afford it. He basically just tanks whatever is thrown at him and keeps coming because of the healing factor. The new movie made it clear how much of a crutch his healing factor is.
LOL@bullet KO taking priority over all the other shit he has tanked and remained conscious.
Logan's battle with the SS showed some really impressive strength from him. Cap won't be manhandling Logan.
Cap will have to relentlessly assault Logan and hope he can put him down before one swipe of Wolverine's claws ends the fight.
I dont think anyone is arguing that Cap is going to be manhandling, Logan. The only reason Caps strength is advantageous in this scenario is because of his shield. Caps strength means dick in this fight without his shield. Without his shield, Cap doesnt have a chance against Logans healing factor, adamantium skeleton and claws. However, none of those traits and features are enough to overcome the potential caps shield has. Granted, all Wolverine needs to do is separate Cap from his shield. If he can do that for any extended period of time, Cap doesn't have a chance. However, i think Wolverine being forced to be on the offensive leads him to an early KO
With all that said, there is still no way Cap can kill Wolverine,
Originally posted by KingD19
The problem with Cap's shield is that it doesn't protect a massive area. It's big sure, but it's not huge. And Logan can force Cap block one claw and get around it with the other.
Yeah, but what you have to remember is that when Cap blocks that right hand claw slash from, Wolverine he is not only blocking the force but also negating it and the force he blocks with will actually act as a counterattack...,assuming Cap isn't just standing his ground with shield and instead putting momentum behind his block. If this is the case, Logan wont have a chance to land a second attack with his left arm because he will be knocked off balance.
