Back from work. Now.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You're looking at the wrong page.After Gorr is blasted light years away Thor co. pursue him, as they're moving massively FTL he starts throwing chunks of moon at them, aimed to intercept their flight. They take note and start smashing them. Later While again travelling between worlds Gorr intercepts Thor mid flight and they begin duking it out. I have the entire comic on hand if you want it.
This is not simply A to B flight.
I'm not reading anything wrong. I'm going by the pages you gave me.
Old Thor blasts Gorr. The blast sends him flying lightyears away.
He crash lands on a moon. They give chase and start flying. He starts throwing chunks of the moon at them. They fly through some of the first chunks and then comment that he's throwing moon chunks at them and find it amusing. There is no lightspeed+ feat anywhere other than flying. Gorr did not react to a ftl blast from Old Thor, nor did Old Thor and Newb Thor react to those thrown chunks while they were mid way through flying to their destination, Gorr succeeded in hitting them as they were coming in, its just that it didn't do anything to them.
There's nothing related to a lightspeed reflexes going on anywhere in those scans remotely. Even if it was a situation where Thor was chasing Gorr and both were flying FTL and they are hitting each other, even that would be a FTL reaction speed as they would both be going at the same speed through the comfort that is the great vastness of space, meaning they might as well be standing still trading blows and it would mean the same thing as far as reaction time goes.
Again, space flight speed even if logistically should point to heightened reflexes in certain situations, is just a shitty trope that even non-speedsters have shown the ability to do.
****ing Rogue from X-Men has a relativisitic flying feat, flying back to Earth from near the moon, she is not a speedster at all and her reflexes are nothing special.
That's why I can name several off the top of my head?
You named a bunch of guys clumped in at the high street level of speed (bullet timing level), and none of them fit the bill of their own legs being shown to be slower than their bodies in combat situations. It's a speed tier in which the disparity is not all that great to begin with.
A .22 long rifle bullet moves at just under mach 1. Again, less than 30 times greater than the peak speed of an actual olympic athlete like Usain Bolt. That multiple will be even less when we talk about comic book peak humans, who both run and think faster, and at which speed differences things become much more feasible to avoid bullets via a combination of sufficient start distance, awareness of the would-be shooter, and subsequent aim dodging.
Reflex speed has never been representative of travel speed in fiction. It likely never will be. Spider-Man's combat showings are enough to have him running well over 200-300 MPH but you will not see it happen. It's a simple fact of fiction that some characters can kick faster than they can take steps. Why? Rule of Cool, I guess. The reason no one fights like Rock Em Sock Em Robots is because this is supposed to be awesome, and that would look ****ing stupid. haermm
It has always been representative for as long as speedster class characters have existed. Seeing as they are the only ones to regularly have their reflex times to be explicitly stated in scenes.
Whereas everyone else just does something, usually with no explanation or detail put into the scene. It's just plot necessity. No writer is going to talk about Daredevil's super sonic arm speed from him blocking bullets with his billy club, because its just falls under, ironically as you would say; 'rule of cool' for the particular transitionary combat scene, and is not a serious display of his speed when the same writer may have him fail to use his supposedly super sonic arm speed to use in practical situations outside of combat in which that arm speed would be very helpful, e.g. untying someone/something with said supposed supersonic arms or maybe trying to crack a code as quickly as they can by trying out as many key combinations as possible.
As for Spiderman? He has showings OUTSIDE of combat that comfortably put his running speed at MACH speeds. The dude has run, jumped, and scaled across a couple of miles of cityscape in just a few seconds. That's a full body speed feat with just acrobatics alone.
But I digress, this was never about high street levelers anyway. As I said already, I give them a pass as they are not so blatantly abusive.
It's about far more laughable fan created disparities in reflex vs movement speed, like, again, that fans created for the likes of Thor and Thanos.
You yourself mentioned Spiderman vs. Firelord as a reason for comics doing stupid things when it comes to combat situations. But that goes EXACTLY the same for doing things far outside of your speed grade in combat situations.
Thus is the situation that fans extrapolate for Thor. He gets stated by fans (and no one else), for being able to react at lightspeed in situations such as reacting to vague projectiles, flying through space very fast (already shown to not remotely be reliable as FTL flyers throughout several mediums do this without being speedsters to show for it), and fighting true speedsters (like Gladiator).
When he's reacting to these random projectiles, in no situation will they be explicitly stated to be faster than light, with Thor requiring to move his arms in X time frame in order to intercept them. And in combat situations like with Gladiator, nowhere will it be shown or stated that Gladiator is moving at 'X nanoseconds' for a particular maneuver that requires Thor to counter in a similar time frame. They simply fight.
In the case of Gladiator, one fight showed such a great speed disparity between the two that rendered any encounter between them where Gladiator doesn't just ko him in less than a second as PIS. Thor was once sped up by a time dilation (to the extent that 1 real life second felt like more than a couple of weeks have passed to him.) and fought Gladiator. Gladiator immediately noticed the time dilation amp that Thor was under and STILL matched Thor's overclocked speed with his own natural speed.
What does that tell you about Thor's native speed? He's nowhere near Gladiator's speed, and thus does not get credit for Gladiator's speed in their several fights. Its just that Gladiator jobs massively--hell forget Gladiator, Thor is nowhere near even someone much lower like Quicksilver, who laughed at the speed of his lightning, comparing it to bolts he has dodged since he was a teen. Thor is not faster than his own lightning, (at best he has a hyperbolic statement of being as fast as his lightning though.)
So what do we have here? When you look at it, Thor has no concrete lightspeed+ reflexes in his entire history. And combat situations alone are unreliable in comics, as stories must be told a particular way and thus concessions must be made, all for a pre-determined plot--as we already know with the example of Spiderman vs Firelord.
So what about Thor's explicitly stated speed feats and practical speed feats outside of combat? Those are the things that ironically become the true measure, as there is no concession needed to keep a fight competitive for purely entertainment purposes because its not a fight situation.
For those, Thor has moved fast enough to be 'almost' invisible to the naked eye when he hammered out a trench in what seemed like seconds. And Thor has also like I said earlier, built a simple tower from nothing with his bar ehands. Both are good, practical showings of his speed. Not even remotely faster than light though, and what's worse, they are also incredibly, incredibly old feats. Like Silver/Bronze age stuff that has not been repeated since. Going by the latter feat I mentioned one should concede that he should be faster than a Wolverine type, but then again those feats are so old as to be antiquated and arguably unreliable as well.
No, you cannot make up rules for fiction that fiction itself does not adhere to. Superman has never even walked at that speed as you describe, for the record. [/B]
Herp. Lol. The 'rule' here is the most simple logic ever that requires no thought or insight to state; You need to be at a certain level of speed to do things at a certain speed. It's that, retardedly basic. Afterall, you can't do things at a certain speed if you are much slower than a certain speed. It's fully self-explanatory, as speed is a simple mathematic equation that you can't will yourself to better yourself in while still not being any faster than what you are. 🙂
And we already create rules for fiction that deny things that the fiction itself may not adhere to. We created the term PIS, discount cross-overs even when they can be explicitly canon etc.
Except in the end, this isn't a rule that the comics don't adhere to. Comics know exactly what speed is and how it works. Comics may not always show it working a particular way, but that's not to say it doesn't work that way. Like you said, 'rule of cool', which doesn't mean its to be given a pass automatically, it can also be discarded entirely as well. It's always situational. Hence why writer's intent is also important, things can be shown a way and not mean at all what outside fan extrapolations come to the conclusion of (e.g. peak human lazer dodging needing to be faster than light to do so or again space flight speed needing superb speedster reflexes that can be in play anywhere).
Basically you're dancing around the issue that you have to admit to by accepting this idiotic massive reflex and running speed disparity. You have to acknowledge that you adhere to the retarded "my muscles move much faster than my muscles" statement. And unfortunately, you can't back that up with comics.
You can't show me a canon statement for Thor that acknowledges that his leg speed is immensely slower than his upper body speed, its just a concession you have to reach by accepting your own stance.
So apparently to you someone like a Thor type should be able to continously react to a Superman/Gladiator type in combat, despite having pathetic leg travelling speed, despite the fact that by doing full body reactions to such supposed lightspeed assaults by Supes/Glads he is already defying said established leg travelling speed.
What happens if Thor is not really fighting Superman and Gladiator but is just batting at illusions of them? Is he still fighting/moving at this supposed light speed level? Ergo to the outside eye that's fast enough it will just look like he's moving really fast and shadow fighting/exercising? What happens if Thor has to defuse bombs strapped to some children that are set to go off nanosecond after nanosecond in the same barren area that he would be fighting Supes or Glads? Will he have the speed to run up and defuse eahc of them? (lets say all it takes to defuse them is for him to get in close proximity). Afterall, he won't be asked to move any greater a distance than he would vs Superman or Gladiator, nor would be asked to move at any quicker a time frame, as we're still talking nanoseconds. Surely he can then defuse these bombs, right? Or what if some crazed mad man like the Leader captures Jane Foster and is about to experiment on her by injecting her with some compound. Said needle is about to break her skin in a few nanoseconds, and Thor is only 50 feet away. Surely he will be able to cover that distance in time right? Or what if he's tasked to put together some machinery with his barehands in a few nanoseconds or if he fails a city explodes? He'll be able to do it, right?
See where I'm going with this? Why is this only shown in combat situations? There is nothing magical about combat situations that causes time to pass at a different rate than it does outside of it, yet Thor has no relatively speedster level impressive speed feats in situations that would call for his supposedly superluminal reflexes. There's no concession to be made for a fight, and thus it counts extra. Lazers job in combat. Speedsters job in combat. Even bullets job (though its too large and engrained a trope to be able to fully ignore. its case by case.). Doesn't necessarily mean the other guy was up to task, it was just required for the plot. PIS is very real and very common afterall, again.
And lol. You don't know Superman apparently. Yes. Superman has feats like that --for the record--.
Superman has walked, talked and gestured casually in what was stated to be a mere fraction of a nanosecond, and that same fraction of a nanosecond seemed to feel like an entire minute or more would feel to us. Hell screw that, Superman has casually sped up through a complete time stop. Both of those are post-crisis feats too.
Originally posted by NemeBro
And then you have times where Thor speedblitzes Skyfathers like Surter.Shut the **** up. 👆
CosmicComet's argument can easily be shut down by telling his fat, unsightly ass to post scans of Spiderman running several times faster than the speed of sound.
'Blitzing' Surter means nothing impressive. Surter is not considered fast at all. He can fly FTL, but so can many characters who do not have speedster level reflexes. As established already, flying fast through space is completely dismissable and unreliable as a showing for heightened reflexes that are applicable for practical situations.
Also, what would that shut down for me? The argument was never for the high street level tier, as I said I already allow bullet timing reflexes & peak human+ running speed as its far too common a trope to ignore. It's not as atrocious a gap, and secondly I'm not arguing that the reflex feats bounds the running speed, I'm arguing the OPPOSITE. Meaning the running speed--which is a far more commonly displayed level, bounds what the upper levels of the reflex speed would be. And other than that, Spiderman has physical travel speeds that can be shown to be sonic+, I gave one such example above. Hell even Captain America himself has outraced a bullet to its target in at least one feat.
Go have a seat you mangy, dog dick sucking Floridian.
Basically you're dancing around the issue that you have to admit to by accepting this idiotic massive reflex and running speed disparity. You have to acknowledge that you adhere to the retarded "my muscles move much faster than my muscles" statement. And unfortunately, you can't back that up with comics.
There is no amount of rationalization that will fix this, it is broken and it is stupid, but it is what we are shown and told.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Except that, no, I don't need to do any such thing. All I have to do here is point out that fiction doesn't care.There is no amount of rationalization that will fix this, it is broken and it is stupid, but it is what we are shown and told.
You realize it is broken, and still champion it and won't answer the rest of my post asking for how things would go in situations that require the exact same time frames and distances outside of combat situations.
PIS is PIS.
No character has reflexes millions of times greater than their running speed, unless it gets explicitly stated by the author in question. Even then, its still incredibly stupid and you'd have to ponder their intelligence. But any other situation is pure fan extrapolated BS wanking, a sad attempt at trying to steal a slice of the super speed cake that is not given to their character, and fan made false distinctions that have no basis in sense.
Originally posted by ares834Death Sentry flew/choked him at FTL speeds and he was getting disoriented. Basically his body wasn't taking it too well.
And then you have times where Thor admits he can't keep up with Wolverine. Thor can not fight at FTL speeds except for a few examples all of which are very arguable.
Kind of stupid, but shows Thor is not a native speedster and that he does have trouble with inmense speed.
You realize it is broken, and still champion it and won't answer the rest of my post asking for how things would go in situations that require the exact same time frames and distances outside of combat situations.PIS is PIS.
PIS is PIS. Like when a much weaker character with advantages in no stats is made to look favourable in one stat to make it look interesting on panel.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
The sheer fact you need to type so much to rationalize it is a testimony to how in opposition it is to what we are shown and told.PIS is PIS. Like when a much weaker character with advantages in no stats is made to look favourable in one stat to make it look interesting on panel.
Lol what?
The sheer fact that you can't retort in detail shows how easy it is for me to rationalize on this level. Because its correct. When you're correct, you can write a lot. What we are shown by itself is not always reliable. And likewise what we are told is not very much most of the time, nor is it usually explicit or suitably detailed enough to mean anything helpful. I addressed both of that thoroughly.
Yes, not sure what your point is by bringing that up, but that describes a situation that we have in a comic fight with someone like Thor vs Gladiator. A natural speedster who is just as strong and durable and immensely faster--by both feats, statements and direct comparisons, and thus is at no real disadvantage stat-wise, yet still loses.
The sheer fact that you can't retort in detail shows how easy it is for me to rationalize on this level. Because its correct. When you're correct, you can write a lot.
I can retort just fine, but it's a lot simpler to pull out the core of what you're saying and point out why it's wrong. shrug
I was more accurately describing what happens most times a herald fights a meta or street leveller.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
No, if you're correct you don't need to spend an entire page explaining why.
"This is what, this is why, there you go."
^Simple and short.I can retort just fine, but it's a lot simpler to pull out the core of what you're saying and point out why it's wrong. shrug
I was more accurately describing what happens most times a herald fights a meta or street leveller.
I gave you the simple "This is why, there you go" right within the post.
I also surrounded it by paragraphs rebutting every possible counter you could have.
No, you cannot retort, nor prove that I'm wrong, because you concede that I'm actually correct with your admission that comics are 'broken'. It's because of this very reason that they broken that forums exist, and why subsequently terms such as PIS exist, to make more sense of what comics show us and come to more realistic, non-plot concerned conclusions on match ups and such. The 'its fiction' excuse thus only goes so far in this medium of discussion. All that you've done is stated that you will continue to believe what you want to believe because its 'hey, its comics', while that same lazy, catch-all justification is actually just as easily used by me to rebutt certain things that you were saying.
You cannot ever have a being that is millions of times greater in reflexes than their native speed, unless it is explicitly being told by Word of God. Even then, it is still arguable as PIS, because it makes not one lick of intuitive sense by even laymen standards. End of.
I gave you the simple "This is why, there you go" right within the post.Funny how I still have counters then.I also surrounded it by paragraphs rebutting every possible counter you could have.
No, you cannot retort,Watch.
because you concede that I'm actually correct with your admission that comics are 'broken'.
All that you've done is stated that you will continue to believe what you want to believe because its 'hey, its comics', while that same lazy, catch-all justification is actually just as easily used by me to rebutt certain things that you were saying.
You cannot ever have a being that is millions of times greater in reflexes than their native speed,
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Funny how I still have counters then.
Not really.
Watch.
No, because your claim was not that comics are broken. By asserting that comics are broken I'm inherently disagreeing with you trying to rationalize what goes on within them.
Lol. This is what happens when you don't actually read what's presented to you. I know its a mountain of text that scares you, but it directly proves you wrong on this, if you'd take a moment to read it.
I stated the unreliability of comics/fiction in general, and illustrated it with several examples. My point was intrinsically always that.
I'll believe what actually happens on panel. You know, the canon.
When its convenient for you, that is. Besides that, what you interpret from the canon, is not necessarily the same as what the canon itself is meant to be showing. We see that by your constant assertions of Link being a lightning timer, when just as viable counter explanations exist, using the exact same canon material as you, leaving you in a perpetual loop where you can't prove your case and can't ask for clarification from developers either due to a language barrier.
By mentioning fiction being broken you've already conceded without any choice the idea that what you say or interpret is meaningful in any way, because you're interpreting from something that is shambles in the first place logically.
Pre Flashpoint Karate Kid. Hell, Batman has shades of this, lol. Spider-Man. I don't care if you're okay with bullet timers, that's just a double standard. The fact is they commonly exemplify what you're arguing against. [/B]
Oh, Pre Flashpoint Karate Kid is explicitly stated to have reflexes that are thousands to millions of times greater than his running speed by Word of God? Batman too? Scans? Links to statements?
Or are you just looking at the visuals, making assumptions where no values are given, and then coming to this conclusion? Again, we already know that combat representations in comics are largely unreliable, especially as the gap grows. So you have no example to stand on. You yourself just admitted that they are PIS just earlier.
You don't seem to understand what a double standard actually is. A double standard is differing opinions on equivalent cases. There is no equivalent case here. We're talking about things on a scale of judgement. What's acceptable, and what's not. Hence my scale of acceptibility starts at the bullet timing disparity level, in which the disparity is but a few multiples of tens or less. Literally, that is it.
As for Spiderman, its already been established by feats that his movement speed and reflex speed gap is actually even smaller than that, seeing as he has speed feats of actually moving around at mach levels outside of pure combat situations.
Lol. This is what happens when you don't actually read what's presented to you. I know its a mountain of text that scares you, but it directly proves you wrong.I stated the unreliability of comics/fiction in general, and illustrated it with several examples. My point was intrinsically always that.
By mentioning fiction being broken you've already conceded without any choice the idea that what you say or interpret is meaningful in anyway, because you're interpreting from something that is shambles in the first place logically.
IRL is not more canon to fiction than fiction.
We can use IRL to compare and extrapolate so far as IRL is not contradicted, it is here.
When its convenient for you, that is.
Oh, Pre Flashpoint Karate Kid is explicitly stated to have reflexes that are thousands to millions of times greater than his running speed by Word of God? Batman too? Scans? Links to statements?
A double standard is differing opinions on equivalent cases. There is no equivalent case here.This is entirely equivalent, you simply choose to allow one to skate by.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
[B]No, lol. You're arguing two separate things here, and moving the goal posts all at once, and then shooting yourself in the foot later:
There no two seperate things here being argued.
I said reflex speeds cannot greatly exceed running speed.--Factually completely true and logically sound--.
I then went on to explain with examples of fiction having unreliable representations in comics that have to adhere to plot constrictions and thus are not to be taken as anything seriously representative in a neutral, plot vaccum, and this was in relation to the above statement.
And unlike you, I was actually showing malleability and awareness of the medium in question the entire time since I gave caveats as well; i.e. Its passable if the writer says it explicitly--even if its stupid. This is something I've said from the start, since the very beginning I brought this issue to play.
There were no goal posts ever being moved. I laid out all the facets of my argument from the get go and was completely aware of my stance.
It is you that is jumping around, acknowledging PIS and then trying to deny the usage when its inconvenient to you. Jesus Christ, at least I had the integrity to outright apply my logic to my favorite character(s), regardless of what their standing might become in a versus forum.
You're making shit up where nothing indicates it. You're also throwing things out simply because they don't fit with what would be realistic in a setting where viking gods fight gamma irradiated scientists in purple pants.IRL is not more canon to fiction than fiction.
We can use IRL to compare and extrapolate so far as IRL is not contradicted, it is here.
You already acknowledged PIS here:
"PIS is PIS. Like when a much weaker character with advantages in no stats is made to look favourable in one stat to make it look interesting on panel."
Sorry, but you don't get to retreat into the 'its fiction' shell again by mentioning outlandish details of characters.
IRL is not more canon than canon. Of course. No one said to ignore canon. Because it exists in a medium, we are forced to discuss it, we don't pretend it does not exist. Images in canon alone don't determine an actual truth however. You've acknowledged it. There's no turning back on this point. Let us not pretend now that plot suddenly not matters and is forgivable, when in our discussions when we're trying eliminate that factor altogether by creating hyptothetical situations of fight scenarios that take place in no other area than our mind, which is not published, consumable story material.
Ooooh. The claws are coming out. Don't let me reminding you that you don't get to rewrite the rules of fiction rustle your jimmies.
I suppose they are. You side-stepped them there for sure.
Unfortunately there is nothing to remind, I'm not re-writing rules so much as I am paying exact attention to typical battle-board customs.
So you want to disregard 99% of comic book scans then, and only use ones backed by creator clarification? All right, we know that uh... Superman is strong, and that Thor beat up someone peer to Eternity, and uh... I forget what other statements have been made off the top of my head, honestly. mmm
Lol where did you come with this 99% figure? Arbitrary, random, and in all likelihood false.
There are loads of quantifiable occurences in comics. Loads of them. More explicitly and detailed than in any other form of fiction.
Again, I'm not even hand-waving some grand, cosmic scale stuff that would get in the way of showing off cool visual effects and epic scenary.
All I'm talking about is the basic fact that "You need to be X fast to do things Y quick." That's it. What I'm talking about can't get anymore simple.
You can't do things in a Y time frame without being X fast. Simple as can be. If its shown to happen in contradiction to that--with no outside factors involved, its simple PIS, outlier, fan-extrapolation etc. All of that. All unless its outright supported by a writer.
There is nothing to support the likes of Karate Kid have reflexes millions of times greater than his running speed (not to mention it gets murky because we know he augments his stats with Ki, and thus its arguable that his speed itself is being augmented too). These are just assumptions from scenes of him fighting characters he should not be fighting, but we have no explicit statements of speeds in for the characters that he are fighting. The gap I proposed is an outlandish idea and thus requires significant proof to support it, explicit, non-minced, straight forward wording. You have no proof of it. You just threw a name out and expected it to stick as a counter point when it has far too many lack of details to help you at all.
This is entirely equivalent, you simply choose to allow one to skate by.
The numbers aren't equivalent at all. And that's what I was focusing on the entire time. Numbers. I know what I've been talking about and my points have been clear, yours, on the other hand, not so much. Basically you just want to say whatever is convenient to you and cry foul on PIS callings that you don't like yet acknowledge readily that PIS exists and cite such examples like Wolverine vs Thor as examples--you don't like it, and its inconvenient, and thus its PIS, yet what I'm talking about which is far more concrete, encompassing across a large range, and as unbiased as possible in attribution (seeing as I apply it to even my favorite characters to their detriment) is outlandish to you. I'm the one actually being flexible by acknowleding both sides of the coin, and am actually trying to be objective and consistent--so I'm not the one whose stance needs to be further pondered and reflected on. I stated before very clearly that reflex speed cannot 'greatly' exceed running speed. That's a caveat, in which I later clarified by giving numbers.
It's very simple you know. Extravagant things require extravagant proof. A person of a reflex level, hundreds, thousands, and especially millions+ times greater than their movement speed is a massive gap and requires immense proof to establish as true, because it has very odd, very grave implications (afterall, this is why lazer dodging is universally panned, its a grand claim as far as implications go, with very little proof of legitimacy) e.g. in an appropriate level of time dilation, said person's lower body would be as if it were transmuted to stone and unmovable, whereas their upper body would be moving normally.
I am not and never was displaying a 'double standard', things are very different as far as the scale of numbers go, and thats what it was always on, a scale. I have no personal attachment to the 'bullet timing' tier or anything, afterall, its the reason why I have to acknowledge that Cloud (a character I dislike intensely), beats Link (a character I like greatly). Its simply the most common heightened perception level tier in fiction. It's just very common, not overly large a claim in scope, and thus requires very little justification in question. The bigger the claim, the more evidence required, and it scales accordingly.
Originally posted by StealthRanger
Pretty sure he had an armor lock on and was KOed for quite some time, that and using a piece of starship armor to land or something like that. Even then, that's at best a large building+ level durability feat, Kratos has at least town+ level DC so, yeah. HoD, wouldn't that be outside help? Marcus is merely peak human with guns so yea, he's useless
A few minutes at most. It's not as if he'll be facing that kind of force here because no one can drop him from orbit. If that's building level durability, then Kratos and everyone else would need to break him down. Of course, I'm not questioning that they can. I'm simply explaining why Team Micro isn't entirely useless here. Your statements have even helped to do that. Example: "town level durability" < weapon system that can torch a planet. On top of that, Marcus is pretty well above peak human. When you can stomp heads away and kick cars 50-100 meters, you're no longer just peak human. And no, so long as he has a hammer guide, he's completely on his own. Narratively, this isn't the case, but beyond that he has to make those decisions.
Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Now that I think about it, I think team microsoft is gonna win.
I'm curious as to your change of mind.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
I said reflex speeds cannot greatly exceed running speed.--Factually completely true and logically sound--.
Tell that to anyone who studies martial arts. Wing Chun in particular. Furthermore, Kratos doesn't run as fast as he reacts, and you know it. Care to point out your complaint about that in case I missed it? With similar logic, you would have to question why Link's striking power isn't enormously augmented by the golden gauntlets. That would probably sound something like "How can one's strength outclass their striking power by this many leagues?! It makes no goddamn sense!" In reality, that would more likely be true. In fiction, no one gives a f**k. Developers aren't going to let reality stand in their way of what they want to do. Namely because perceptions of reality vary from person to person (like here, for example). I think you're seriously overthinking this.
Well kratos and link are by far the strongest ones here. Being as they're both blade users instead of gunman, they would probably go for eachother first as that's the style they feel most comfortable with. Master chief is probably number 3 of the group. With the other two busy, he should be able to take fox and jax no problem. By the time link vs kratos is over, the winner will not be at the top of his game and mc should be able to take him out.