Plus the fact that Scourge was the Emperor's Wrath, (although whether it was out of his loyalty to the emperor or his power eludes me.) Also given the fact that after Malgus killed his wife, he was described as a raging storm a hate, as if he was the dark side itself, another thing scourge can gorge on.
I can't believe you've succumbed to it.
Originally posted by Nephthys
No. It makes it less outrageous when other people agree with me though and are swayed by my reasoning.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Nah. The sheer number is more than enough, as is the knowledge that Scourge was only sent after extremely powerful opponents.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Thats fair. Its just that you seem to be only focusing on Dooku and Mauls accomplishment, feats and accolades while not even bothering to compare them to Malgus and Scourges. Thats all.
Originally posted by Nephthys
True, however you'd have to be a real twit to think that Maul learned more about lightsaber combat and fighting in 20 years than Scourge did in 320 years. Remember that Scourge was already a highly skilled Juyo practitioner [b]before the events of Revan. Which means that he too would have had to have been a 'high-end master of multiple forms.' [/B]
Originally posted by Nephthys
My argument is simply that because he has had so much time for training and growth and since he's fought so many battles since then, then he logically would have accrued more skill than Maul has in a much lesser amount of time.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I guess I just rate Scourge higher than you do.
Originally posted by Nephthys
No, it isn't. No more than Maul "probably" being more skilled because of your list is a good argument. I'm making logical deductions based off of the evidence. It is not bullshit to conclude that an already highly skilled swordman would become even more highly skilled with 300 years worth of extra training, nigh-unlimited resources and being engaged in regular combat versus powerful opponents. Please tell me where the bullshit is.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Scourge was a Juyo master as of Revan, do you really think that in 300 years he hasn't expanded his skills? So at the worst he's mastered just as many, likely more. Even as an apprentice in the academy his lightsaber instructor's hesitated to face him. He became superior as a Sith Lord. He undoubtably became superior still in 300 years as the Emperor's Wrath.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Faster? Scourge outran automated speeder cannon's. The same cannons designed to track and fire while moving at mach speeds, at other vehicles moving just as fast.
Maul dodges a hail of blasterbolts:
A hail of blaster bolts came through the front door.
Dodging them, Maul ran across the room and dived headfirst through a window, somersaulting in midair so that he hit the ground on his feet, now centered among his astonished opponents.
-End Game
Originally posted by Nephthys
More powerful? Maybe, though Scourge is obviously extremely powerful for Vitiate not to have replaced him in 300 years. Do I need to explain the logic behind Vitiate not finding a more powerful, skilled assassin in 300 as being impressive to you or are you going to write that off too?
Originally posted by Nephthys
Revan also says that Scourge has 'incredible potential', which he's surely achieved by Swtor. It also indicates that he's not even close to his peak as of Revan.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Also Scourge can just deal with Mauls power with his shield generator.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Telekinetically he's able to smash a droid and crack its metal hull:'Reaching out to grab the drone with the invisible hand of the Force, he slammed it back down to the ground. Its legs snapped off and went flying; its exterior hull cracked in multiple places; several of the welded plates tore loose. All the lights on its body went dim.'
Originally posted by Nephthys
and is proficient enough to use the Force to casually Force choke a man to death without motioning.
Originally posted by Nephthys
More impressive foes? Hahahaha, no. Maul has defeated about 4 impressive foes. Scourge has defeated over a thousand.
Originally posted by Nephthys
It isn't that simple. I'm not even arguing that Scourge will win through experience. I'm arguing that his experience will grant him skill and ability in excess of Maul.
Originally posted by Nephthys
This assumes that Yoda was constantly getting better in combat through those 800 years. Which is false. After mastering all lightsaber forms, theres not much more skilled he could have gotten. Which is why Sidious catches up merely by doing the same.
Originally posted by Nephthys
You mean other than defeating 1100 powerful opponents?
Originally posted by Nephthys
Also I'm sure he has some feats in Revan.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Killing over 1100 powerful opponents [b]is the feat. I've also mentioned a few of his other feats throughout this discussion. [/B]
Originally posted by Nephthys
Except, you know, common freaking sense. 🙄Maul isn't some transcendental prodigy, I'm certain there were numerous Jedi and Sith as powerful as him in between Kotor and Tor. There are numerous in the single time-frame of the game for christs sake.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Not more impressive, but it would make you more impressive, as obviously you'd hone your skills in fighting him and become a superior combatant through the experience.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Plus beating him that many time without losing is actually rather impressive.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Also, Scourge was obviously fighting people a hell of a lot better than Quinlan Vos.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Tell that to Dooku.
Originally posted by Nephthys
😐Vader is a better swordman than Luke. Luke has no training in swordsmanship whatsoever. Vader is a master of many forms and was complimented by Dooku for his skills.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes. I am. 😐Could you stop it with the incredulous questions? Dooku and Maul are not that damn good that suggestions of parity are met with incredulous skepticism.
Originally posted by Nephthys
snip
Originally posted by Nephthys
They are? 😬Dooku uses TK and lightning to incapacitate opponents. Malgus ****ing kills them. He kills opponents with TK pushes hard enough to shatter bones and blasts holes through his opponents with lightning. You think Malgus would have merely tossed Kenobi around? No, he would have thrown him hard enough to snap him in half. His Force powers are much more devastating in combat and more advanced in the sheer level of destruction he unleashes.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Why not? You forget that he got a lot more powerful after doing those. He owned a Jedi who collapsed two buildings made of duracrete and transparisteel (already a feat comparable to Dooku by itself) and he did it while wounded and tired. And he wasn't even at his peak.
Okay, putting them as equals in terms of power is fair.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Also how does Dooku react to a Force Maelstrom?
Originally posted by Intrepid37
We'll have to agree to disagree.
Fair enough. 👆
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Master or practioner?
Is there a meaningful difference? Either way he's be a high-end master of both Soresu and Ataru. The fact that his swordsmanship even while at the academy was such that the lightsaber instructors feared him, indicates him to be highly skilled. You don't intimidate people whose job it is to teach lightsabers, with your lightsaber skills without being highly skilled.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
And this interpretation occurs only in your head, not in a canon source. That he'd gain more skill than Maul is your opinion.
True, however I've given my reasons for why I am of this belief and I'm not really seeing much contradicting them.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
No one said that he wouldn't become more skilled... more skilled than another very skilled swordsman? There's simply no proof for that.
There doesn't need for there to be proof for us to agree that its logically the case.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
You just said he improved over 300 years...
I know. In the paragraph in question I'm responding to your assertion that Maul mastered more forms. Thats not true, Scourge mastered just as many in a tenth of his lifespan.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
He never ''outran'' it, he evaded its shots, and I have no idea why you think this is so impressive.Maul dodges a hail of blasterbolts:
A hail of blaster bolts came through the front door.
Dodging them, Maul ran across the room and dived headfirst through a window, somersaulting in midair so that he hit the ground on his feet, now centered among his astonished opponents.
-End Game
No, he outran it:
'Scourge leapt to the side as a barrage of blasterfire was unleashed from the vehicle. He hit the ground in a roll that brought him to his feet just in time to spring clear of a second series of bolts. Moving with the blinding speed of the Force, he raced across the courtyard, bolts ricocheting off the ground just behind him every step of the way. He dived behind the cover of the Emperor’s statue, his mind assessing the situation.'
It's impressive because its a cannon designed to track targets and fire at them while moving at about a hundred miles p/hr, often firing at targets moving just as fast. That Scourge is able to move faster than it can track is very impressive.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Sure.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
He can?
Well if Maul tries to **** him up with the Force he can just activate the shield to block the damage.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Good, but not on Maul's level.
I agree, but Scourge isn't near his peak at that point.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Except that we've no description of the fights and the exact power-level of who he fought... Maul's beaten two of the greatest swordsmen ever produced by the order (one of them he killed in a span of 30 seconds).
We can tell the kind of opponent Scourge was sent after though. Any Jedi deemed 'too powerful' must surely be ****ing powerful considering Scourge wasn't sent after Satale Shan, Jaric Kaedan (the guy who solo's the Dark Masters) the Barsen'thor, Tol Braga or even the Hero of Tython. And given his actions in TOR that he fought them in a lightsaber duel or some sort.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Which is your opinion. You're gonna need concrete proof or the only one you'll convince will be yourself.
See my response to Han. Fighting a shitton of people improves your skill just like working out improves your muscles. Through doing an activity, your ability to do that activity becomes easier. Like typing. I used to be a slow ass typer, but because I type so much on this forum I'm not pretty fast and can type without looking at the keyboard. Its the same principle with lightsaber fighting. Fighting hundreds of powerful opponents would naturally improve your skills. I don't need to prove that. Its a fact of life.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Palpatine hardly had time to get better. He was a 24/7 chancellor after Plagueis died.
Well clearly he had enough time to learn. :I
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Yes.
Fine. He outduels the Captain of the Imperial Guard and another Guard at the same time. The same imperial guard who are 'unmatched in martial skill'.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Enlighten me.
Hell no. That would require me to read that garbage. Though as I said though, he's experienced and skilled enough to tell a persons weaknesses with a single glance, indicating huge amounts of both.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Disagreed.
Too bad. It is feat enough still.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Nice counter-argument.
Thank you. I can't tell if this is sarcastic or not, but if it is then at least I actually offered a counter-argument.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Sure, but the amount of gain in power is ambigouous.
If he can become a highly skilled master of 3 lightsaber forms in under 30 years, do you not think that he could become at least twice as skilled in 300?
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Lol.
Um, he was though. Vos ****ing sucks slugballs. Scourge was going after DC-level guys and Super Jedi.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Why
Because Anakin kicked his ass despite being less skilled, through being more powerful.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Nope. They're equals according to the comic adaption and a fact file.
They might be equals in terms of combat, but Vader is still the superior swordsman in terms of skill. That is, assuming he hadn't received a lobotomy.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Malgus' parity with them is more than acceptable, but Scourge? Not having it.
Scourge is powerful and skilled enough to make 'even the most powerful members of the Dark Council' afraid of him. He's no chump, and clearly close to those two's level.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Which might be true, but in contrary to Dooku and Maul, he's never used his so call ''sheer levels of destruction'' against his opponents. Why would he do so in this fight?
What? No, its the other way around, Malgus uses his power in combat to annihilate fools all the time. He ****s things up in his attack on the Jedi Temple, killing 3 Jedi at once with a single burst of lightning (one of whom turning translucent through his sheet power), shattering a temple column with a Force scream (you can see how big those are in the Decieved trailer), killing Jedi in single force pushes etc. He rips through his opponents chest with his lightning in The Third Lesson. He smacks Aryn around with the Force in their duels inDecieved too, in their first duel smashing rock so hard it transformed into a hail of shrapnel, pulling the ground out from under her, throwing statues at her, hitting her with lightning powerful enough to suspend her in midair, smacking her around with TK bursts and in their second fight hitting her across a hanger with TK before overwhelming her with lightning.
So as shown, Malgus makes liberal use of his Force powers in combat. Moreso than Dooku or Maul.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Hmm...Okay, putting them as equals in terms of power is fair.
True dat. Malgus is a beast.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
He can use it in a fight?
Yes. The Book of Sith even has a nice picture of him using it against a Jedi and the description talks about using it against opponents.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Is there a meaningful difference? Either way he's be a high-end master of both Soresu and Ataru. The fact that his swordsmanship even while at the academy was such that the lightsaber instructors feared him, indicates him to be highly skilled. You don't intimidate people whose job it is to teach lightsabers, with your lightsaber skills without being highly skilled.
Dooku was more than a match for Anakin before the latter went in-teh-zone. Said Anakin made the lightsaber battlemaster do far more than feel hesitation to fight him; he made him dead. 😉
There doesn't need for there to be proof for us to agree that its logically the case.
Ah, your arbitrary declarations again. Apparently, you, through some hidden mathematics you continue to refuse to show us, feel that a certain amount of years of experience will put a certain character over another, but not over another, without doing anything to explain why.
I know. In the paragraph in question I'm responding to your assertion that Maul mastered more forms. Thats not true, Scourge mastered just as many in a tenth of his lifespan.
Maul also knows teras kasi.
No, he outran it:'Scourge leapt to the side as a barrage of blasterfire was unleashed from the vehicle. He hit the ground in a roll that brought him to his feet just in time to spring clear of a second series of bolts. Moving with the blinding speed of the Force, he raced across the courtyard, bolts ricocheting off the ground just behind him every step of the way. He dived behind the cover of the Emperor’s statue, his mind assessing the situation.'
It's impressive because its a cannon designed to track targets and fire at them while moving at about a hundred miles p/hr, often firing at targets moving just as fast. That Scourge is able to move faster than it can track is very impressive.
LOL wut? That the bolts ricocheted off the grounds behind him mean that they weren't chasing him in a straight line...
and I would point out that TPM Qui Gon and Obi Wan still have even your odd interpretation of the feat beat by an order of magnitude.
and I would put that Scourge was this close to dying against a bunch of droids, and this close to losing to a bounty hunter.
Well if Maul tries to **** him up with the Force he can just activate the shield to block the damage.
Can shields block the Force? It doesn't appear as though the Force has to travel through physical space; Vader chokes an officer through a camera, remember?
We can tell the kind of opponent Scourge was sent after though. Any Jedi deemed 'too powerful' must surely be ****ing powerful considering Scourge wasn't sent after Satale Shan, Jaric Kaedan (the guy who solo's the Dark Masters) the Barsen'thor, Tol Braga or even the Hero of Tython. And given his actions in TOR that he fought them in a lightsaber duel or some sort.
Put it this way; who is the strongest opponent Scourge has defeated?
Fine. He outduels the Captain of the Imperial Guard and another Guard at the same time. The same imperial guard who are 'unmatched in martial skill'.
And Anoon Bondara's skills were "second to none"...🙄
'The Empire's ultimate non-Force sensitive warriors,* the Imperial Guard is a selfless army devoted to the Emperor and the Emperor alone. Clad in blood-red armor and wielding deadly weaponry designed to exterminate Force users, the Imperial Guard sweep across the Galaxy at the Emperor's command, destroying his enemies both outside and inside the Empire. When confronted by the Imperial Guard, the mightiest of Sith have laid down their lightsabers and surrendered to the inevitable death offered by a guardsman's electrostaff. Even members of the Dark Council fear the Imperial Guard, though many would die before confessing such weakness."
:T
* Better than Mando's. 😉
You must really like talking to me though, to be janking my debate with Intrepid.
