Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Seriously, how can you guys be arguing over The runner beating Surfer? Its not an impressive feat at all, Thanos, Thor and Hulk and more have all done it, i mean, seriously, how many times has he been beaten to death by fighting? He gets destroyed by characters who on paper, arent even in the same league as him, IMHO on paper in a cisless an pisless story, surfer would bring superman and black adam to their goddamn knees with relative ease, but hes the worst written character ive seen, this is so stupid.
It's not that he beat him, it's the manner in which her appeared to outclass him. He admits or at least contemplates the idea that the Runner is more powerful. Also, let's not forget the Runner has been building his power for billions of years.
Originally posted by tkitna
Honestly, the Runner should destroy these two chumps.
Originally posted by leonidas
based on displayed feats, a case could be made for the dc guys. if it happened in a comic, runner would likely run a train through them. he can traverse galaxies in moments without the gem and he's never even been threatened in a fight, let alone defeated. he quite literally toyed with ss (however you want to view his level). he's got high level tp, can turn intangible and can clearly amp his strength to well above cl100. i've always considered him second to maybe only grandmaster in terms of sheer power as an elder. pretty sure he would be a team wrecker if he wasn't so.....starfox-esque. he's basically flash if flash were almost completely invulnerable and possessed of greater than ss-style cosmic power. he SHOULD wreck these 2, but again, based on what has been shown, a case can be made for supes/ba. the same kind of case that can almost ALWAYS be made when one character has almost no feats, and the others have hundreds upon hundreds......that, however, doesn't always make for the best, nor most convincing forms of argument, imho.
Thanks for the replies guys... 👆
This fight is one of those situations where you have to look at more than just feats due to the fact that the team has far, far, more appearances than the The Runner does; you have to look at implied power as well...
I once made this very point in a thread where only high feats could be used as arguments and the contestants where Thanos, Thor, Surfer, Superman, and Hal; if you base things strictly on feats, Thanos finishes last compared to those Heralds...
This situation is no different; yes, Surfer was weakened when he fought the Runner, but the Runner wasnt trying very hard either (he was borderline toying with the Surfer) and still crushed him with ease...
The implication (especially combined with the Surfers thoughts at the beginning of the next issue) is that Elders are beyond High Heralds like the Surfer...
Anyway, I think Adam and Supes show more heart than the Surfer did against the Runner, but in the end the result is the exact same; The Runner wins...
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Thanks for the replies guys... 👆This fight is one of those situations where you have to look at more than just feats due to the fact that the team has far, far, more appearances than the The Runner does; you have to look at implied power as well...
I once made this very point in a thread where only high feats could be used as arguments and the contestants where Thanos, Thor, Surfer, Superman, and Hal; if you base things strictly on feats, Thanos finishes last compared to those Heralds...
This situation is no different; yes, Surfer was weakened when he fought the Runner, but the Runner wasnt trying very hard either (he was borderline toying with the Surfer) and still crushed him with ease...
The implication (especially combined with the Surfers thoughts at the beginning of the next issue) is that Elders are beyond High Heralds like the Surfer...
Anyway, I think Adam and Supes show more heart than the Surfer did against the Runner, but in the end the result is the exact same; The Runner wins...
Originally posted by abhilegend
You can't be serious here. Faster is absolutely arguable, more versatile and stronger? Don't make me laugh.
Faster and being more versatile really arent arguable, the physically stronger bit may be pushing it. Regardless, with no CIS or PIS, the Runner should stomp even if he only has less then a handful of appearances.
Its ok to take the fanboy glasses off sometimes.
Originally posted by tkitna
Faster and being more versatile really arent arguable, the physically stronger bit may be pushing it. Regardless, with no CIS or PIS, the Runner should stomp even if he only has less then a handful of appearances.Its ok to take the fanboy glasses off sometimes.
Superman would punch his teeth in if he tried to do surfer route on him. Superman is far stronger than surfer and wouldn't nearly die by falling to a planet. Who is being a fanboy here? The guy who is arguing a character beats Superman and Black Adam just because he beat a weakened surfer or the guy who knows that beating surfer doesn't means you can suddenly beat everyone in herald category.
Originally posted by TheLordofMurderI'd be willing to agree with you if it wasn't a team up.
Thanks for the replies guys... 👆This fight is one of those situations where you have to look at more than just feats due to the fact that the team has far, far, more appearances than the The Runner does; you have to look at implied power as well...
I once made this very point in a thread where only high feats could be used as arguments and the contestants where Thanos, Thor, Surfer, Superman, and Hal; if you base things strictly on feats, Thanos finishes last compared to those Heralds...
This situation is no different; yes, Surfer was weakened when he fought the Runner, but the Runner wasnt trying very hard either (he was borderline toying with the Surfer) and still crushed him with ease...
The implication (especially combined with the Surfers thoughts at the beginning of the next issue) is that Elders are beyond High Heralds like the Surfer...
Anyway, I think Adam and Supes show more heart than the Surfer did against the Runner, but in the end the result is the exact same; The Runner wins...
Basically the way I see it either Supes or Adam punch Runner away from their partner before the whole charm power starts messing with either one of them.
Originally posted by abhilegend
How's being faster and versatile isn't arguable? What has Runner done versatility anyway? Beating a weakened Surfer and outpacing him isn't that impressive. Makkari left him in the dust when he went lightspeed too.
The fact that he's an Elder Of The Universe with abilities to screw with peoples emotions, matter manipulation, energy output, etc,,,beats the flying bricks heat vision and a littlebit of frost breath. As for how fast he is, are people actually using that stupid story with Makkari and Barry Allen as actual ammo? The Runner is basically Marvels version of the Flash except on a cosmic scale. I cant sit here and say for sure that he's faster as I dont think an actual speed has been determined, but even if he's not, he'll be in the ballpark. Also, the fact that he was faster on every account then the Surfer sways me towards that conclusion.
Superman would punch his teeth in if he tried to do surfer route on him. Superman is far stronger than surfer and wouldn't nearly die by falling to a planet. Who is being a fanboy here? The guy who is arguing a character beats Superman and Black Adam just because he beat a weakened surfer or the guy who knows that beating surfer doesn't means you can suddenly beat everyone in herald category.
Superman and BA would be there stroking themselves, blowing kisses to the Runner while he casually rips their windpipes out with his bare hands. I cant see anyway for them to win the more I think about it.
Its all right to disagree I cant force you to be right.
Originally posted by tkitnaHaha, what? His only other ability is some type of starfox-esque charm. Superman has better energy projection feats with HV.
The fact that he's an Elder Of The Universe with abilities to screw with peoples emotions, matter manipulation, energy output, etc,,,beats the flying bricks heat vision and a littlebit of frost breath.
As for how fast he is, are people actually using that stupid story with Makkari and Barry Allen as actual ammo?That's not Barry Allen and it was a story from one of the biggest marvel cosmic writers ever, Mark Gruenwald. You saying its stupid doesn't means much anyway. It doesn't makes it non canon.
The Runner is basically Marvels version of the Flash except on a cosmic scale.That's just an asinine logic. you might as well say that Gladiator gets superman's feats because he's a clone of superman.
I cant sit here and say for sure that he's faster as I dont think an actual speed has been determined, but even if he's not, he'll be in the ballpark.He doesn't has feats to be faster than superman.
Also, the fact that he was faster on every account then the Surfer sways me towards that conclusion.By that logic Spider man is faster than superman too, midnight sun and Ganeymede too. Surfer wasn't FTL in flight speed under Englehart, much less combat speed in which superman lefts him in the dust. It was a weakened surfer to boot.
Superman and BA would be there stroking themselves, blowing kisses to the Runner while he casually rips their windpipes out with his bare hands.We're not talking about your wet dream last night.
I cant see anyway for them to win the more I think about it.Then you don't know much about any character in this thread.
Its all right to disagree I cant force you to be right.I can't force you to read comics and come out of your fantasy land too. Alas.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Haha, what? His only other ability is some type of starfox-esque charm. Superman has better energy projection feats with HV.
Yeah, Superman has a billion years of feats to fall back on. The Runner used energy blasts in 2 or three panels total that i'm aware of. Marvel says he's a matter manipulator also (cant remember an example without pulling the books), but thats not hard to accept with a character that has tapped the Power Primordial and obtains the power cosmic.
That's not Barry Allen and it was a story from one of the biggest marvel cosmic writers ever, Mark Gruenwald. You saying its stupid doesn't means much anyway. It doesn't makes it non canon. That's just an asinine logic. you might as well say that Gladiator gets superman's feats because he's a clone of superman. He doesn't has feats to be faster than superman. By that logic Spider man is faster than superman too, midnight sun and Ganeymede too. Surfer wasn't FTL in flight speed under Englehart, much less combat speed in which superman lefts him in the dust. It was a weakened surfer to boot.
Gladiator has Superman like feats. Just saying. Surfer being dragged down by Englehart would be the same as say,,,the Runner being written in a silly story and drug down by Gruenwald. I see how that works now.
I can't force you to read comics and come out of your fantasy land too. Alas.
I've read enough comics to conclude that the Runner is a character that appears and should be above the likes of a flying brick like Superman.
Just because Superman has a million years worth of comics by different writers doesnt mean he automatically wins because of his many, many, many feats. Sometimes you need to use common sense even when the character being discussed is the one you have hanging on your bedroom door.
Originally posted by tkitnaSo nothing but your opinion as what runner should be, not what he actually is. Several people have tapped power cosmic and power primordial. Even his fellow elder Obiletarator was unable to matter manipulate his guns after surfer transmuted them.
Yeah, Superman has a billion years of feats to fall back on. The Runner used energy blasts in 2 or three panels total that i'm aware of. Marvel says he's a matter manipulator also (cant remember an example without pulling the books), but thats not hard to accept with a character that has tapped the Power Primordial and obtains the power cosmic.
Gladiator has Superman like feats. Just saying.He wishes.
Surfer being dragged down by Englehart would be the same as say,,,the Runner being written in a silly story and drug down by Gruenwald.Gruenwald wrote surfer as damn near unstoppable, quasar leeched a star's worth of energy from him and he didn't even felt it.
I see how that works now.Except Gruenwald's Runner isn't that out of norm when you consider that Englehart didn't write surfer as FTL himself.
I've read enough comics to conclude that the Runner is a character that appears and should be above the likes of a flying brick like Superman."Should be" isn't enough. You can pick any character and say he should be above this character, that's not how things work.
Just because Superman has a million years worth of comics by different writers doesnt mean he automatically wins because of his many, many, many feats.Even his average is better than Runner's feats. Let me count Runner's feats. Beating a weakened Surfer, getting taken out by mantis, Thanos playing possum and getting better of him and then Makkari basically saying "**** you" to his speed.
Sometimes you need to use common sense even when the character being discussed is the one you have hanging on your bedroom door.So which common sense says that Runner beating a weakened surfer who is both vastly weaker and slower than superman? Your insults are very childish I might add.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Why? Because he beat a weakened surfer?How's he nearly invulnerable? Where did he amp his strength above class 100? You know superman has crossed galaxies too, right?
an argument can easily be raised regarding your 'weakened' surfer theory. if you show the full scan, as opposed to the cropped one, you'll see the other elders suggest it's nothing more than his bruised ego that is talking, that he's making nothing more than a face-saving comment regarding runner's easy win over ss and his own loss. if you look at champ's fight against norrin, it is pretty clear ss didn't exactly have to push himself to win what was a very brief battle. even his battle against korvac was extremely brief. in short--take champ at his word if you must, but ss has fought FAR harder for FAR greater amounts of time against equally powerful opponents and not been considered 'weakened'. the other elders seem to agree with me.
as regards to invulnerability, he can't die. we've no real proof of the level of power that it would take to actually ko him, but he is certainly far above ss's level IMO. that opinion is bolstered by ss's own admission of such, not only against runner, but also against obliterator. he very specifically says obliterator's power is beyond him and obliterator agrees that ss's power cosmic is meaningless to him. that is why ss HAD to change his weapons. he couldn't win any other way. even thanos recently with his faux cube could do no more than banish the elders. and while it wasn't a true cube, it WAS exceptionally powerful.
in speed--sure supes has dozens of uber speed feats. but i'll take runner still. barring that pis-laden quasar arc of course where the speed of light was considered ultimate speed. lol too much versatility for runner. tp, emotional control, uber cosmic power well above ss, speed, intangibility, easily able to amp strength to cl100+ levels.....
i won't go feat-for-feat for obvious reasons. and me and everyone else on the forum already knows that nothing i or anyone else will say will change your stance in this, but those are MY opinions on runner and why i believe he is above both these guys.