Superman and Black Adam vs The Runner...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Thanks for the replies guys... 👆

This fight is one of those situations where you have to look at more than just feats due to the fact that the team has far, far, more appearances than the The Runner does; you have to look at implied power as well...

I once made this very point in a thread where only high feats could be used as arguments and the contestants where Thanos, Thor, Surfer, Superman, and Hal; if you base things strictly on feats, Thanos finishes last compared to those Heralds...

This situation is no different; yes, Surfer was weakened when he fought the Runner, but the Runner wasnt trying very hard either (he was borderline toying with the Surfer) and still crushed him with ease...

The implication (especially combined with the Surfers thoughts at the beginning of the next issue) is that Elders are beyond High Heralds like the Surfer...

Anyway, I think Adam and Supes show more heart than the Surfer did against the Runner, but in the end the result is the exact same; The Runner wins...

Agreed.

Originally posted by abhilegend
How's being faster and versatile isn't arguable? What has Runner done versatility anyway? Beating a weakened Surfer and outpacing him isn't that impressive. Makkari left him in the dust when he went lightspeed too.

Superman would punch his teeth in if he tried to do surfer route on him. Superman is far stronger than surfer and wouldn't nearly die by falling to a planet. Who is being a fanboy here? The guy who is arguing a character beats Superman and Black Adam just because he beat a weakened surfer or the guy who knows that beating surfer doesn't means you can suddenly beat everyone in herald category.

Unbunch you panties, dude. You really should stop getting all emotionally involved about something that doesn't exist.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
I'd be willing to agree with you if it wasn't a team up.

Basically the way I see it either Supes or Adam punch Runner away from their partner before the whole charm power starts messing with either one of them.

You realize The Runner has EP as well, right? He's a class above them, period.

Originally posted by leonidas
an argument can easily be raised regarding your 'weakened' surfer theory. if you show the full scan, as opposed to the cropped one, you'll see the other elders suggest it's nothing more than his bruised ego that is talking, that he's making nothing more than a face-saving comment regarding runner's easy win over ss and his own loss. if you look at champ's fight against norrin, it is pretty clear ss didn't exactly have to push himself to win what was a very brief battle. even his battle against korvac was extremely brief. in short--take champ at his word if you must, but ss has fought FAR harder for FAR greater amounts of time against equally powerful opponents and not been considered 'weakened'. the other elders seem to agree with me.

as regards to invulnerability, he can't die. we've no real proof of the level of power that it would take to actually ko him, but he is certainly far above ss's level IMO. that opinion is bolstered by ss's own admission of such, not only against runner, but also against obliterator. he very specifically says obliterator's power is beyond him and obliterator agrees that ss's power cosmic is meaningless to him. that is why ss HAD to change his weapons. he couldn't win any other way. even thanos recently with his faux cube could do no more than banish the elders. and while it wasn't a true cube, it WAS exceptionally powerful.

in speed--sure supes has dozens of uber speed feats. but i'll take runner still. barring that pis-laden quasar arc of course where the speed of light was considered ultimate speed. lol too much versatility for runner. tp, emotional control, uber cosmic power well above ss, speed, intangibility, easily able to amp strength to cl100+ levels.....

i won't go feat-for-feat for obvious reasons. and me and everyone else on the forum already knows that nothing i or anyone else will say will change your stance in this, but those are MY opinions on runner and why i believe he is above both these guys.

Bravo. This is real debating.

He's more than a class above them and here's why

he has matter manipulation on a planetary scale, neither superman nor adam have any variation of matter manipulation, im not sure if he can make something out of nothing, but he can certainly change entire structures of objects ie. Water to rock, rock to water. Theoretically he could click his fingers and turn supermans cape to kryptonite, but thats boring, so lets have a look at other reasons he can beat these too, dont forget he has powerful matter manip powers at his disposal

He's a speedster, but hes not grounded, meaning unlike a flash, he can combat superman or any other flying opponent in flight or on ground, his speed varies between the two but nonetheless hes faster than adam and superman.

Hes very very strong, hes far above class 100 again unlike flash who has top human strength, above the likes of thor, hulk etc

he ruined thanos via speedblitz, thanos managed to trick him though, by turning him to an old man by using the time gem, he would of destroyed thanos if he had not listened to thanos story to stop him from beating him down
Death has banished him from her realm so that no force or injury no matter how severe he will not perish to the realm of the dead
his primordial blasts are more powerful than surfers cosmic blasts(able to level large citys) so im betting his blasts are gonna do some damage here
Hes a beast, able to wreck thanos an surfer with ease (surfer fight was abit shitty an unimpressive) hes more than capable than pwning superman an black adam
they will probably like it aswell
he is also enhanced by the power primordial>>>>>>>>power cosmic and can enhance his abilities like strength,blasts and molecular manipulation evem further then they already are, the runner takes this 10/10 im betting the runner could go at it with odin judging by thanos gettin an ass beatin

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
He's more than a class above them and here's why

he has matter manipulation on a planetary scale, neither superman nor adam have any variation of matter manipulation, im not sure if he can make something out of nothing, but he can certainly change entire structures of objects ie. Water to rock, rock to water. Theoretically he could click his fingers and turn supermans cape to kryptonite, but thats boring, so lets have a look at other reasons he can beat these too, dont forget he has powerful matter manip powers at his disposal

He's a speedster, but hes not grounded, meaning unlike a flash, he can combat superman or any other flying opponent in flight or on ground, his speed varies between the two but nonetheless hes faster than adam and superman.

Hes very very strong, hes far above class 100 again unlike flash who has top human strength, above the likes of thor, hulk etc

he ruined thanos via speedblitz, thanos managed to trick him though, by turning him to an old man by using the time gem, he would of destroyed thanos if he had not listened to thanos story to stop him from beating him down
Death has banished him from her realm so that no force or injury no matter how severe he will not perish to the realm of the dead
his primordial blasts are more powerful than surfers cosmic blasts(able to level large citys) so im betting his blasts are gonna do some damage here
Hes a beast, able to wreck thanos an surfer with ease (surfer fight was abit shitty an unimpressive) hes more than capable than pwning superman an black adam
they will probably like it aswell
he is also enhanced by the power primordial>>>>>>>>power cosmic and can enhance his abilities like strength,blasts and molecular manipulation evem further then they already are, the runner takes this 10/10 im betting the runner could go at it with odin judging by thanos gettin an ass beatin

Originally posted by leonidas
an argument can easily be raised regarding your 'weakened' surfer theory. if you show the full scan, as opposed to the cropped one, you'll see the other elders suggest it's nothing more than his bruised ego that is talking, that he's making nothing more than a face-saving comment regarding runner's easy win over ss and his own loss. if you look at champ's fight against norrin, it is pretty clear ss didn't exactly have to push himself to win what was a very brief battle. even his battle against korvac was extremely brief. in short--take champ at his word if you must, but ss has fought FAR harder for FAR greater amounts of time against equally powerful opponents and not been considered 'weakened'. the other elders seem to agree with me.

IMHO what settles this argument is that an amped Champion faced off vs Surfer later and Surfer would have still beat him (but Mephisto/Nova went and got Dumb Drax to do it because he/she knew Surfer didn't want to hurt champion).

i already said an argument for his position could be made.... 😕 if he wants to accept champ's word, i don't care. just know that it is equally likely he was speaking from the position of a bruised ego.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
power primordial>>>>>>>>power cosmic>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>power of the sun.

Originally posted by leonidas
i already said an argument for his position could be made.... 😕 if he wants to accept champ's word, i don't care. just know that it is equally likely he was speaking from the position of a bruised ego.

Not only that, I think it is significant that Surfer himself said NOTHING about him being weakened or tired from battle, nor did he think it based on the panel. He asked himself is Runner's power could be stronger, period. This is being overlooked.

And when taken in context with Conteplator's comments about Champion's bruised ego , the message is quite clear. Champions was clearly trying to make himself feel better about his loss by saying that Surfer was weakened, which is battle board speak. Surfer himself all but stated that Runner's power is simply greater.

Originally posted by leonidas
i already said an argument for his position could be made.... 😕 if he wants to accept champ's word, i don't care. just know that it is equally likely he was speaking from the position of a bruised ego.

IMHO what settles this argument is that an amped Champion faced off vs Surfer later and Surfer would have still beat him (but Mephisto/Nova went and got Dumb Drax to do it because he/she knew Surfer didn't want to hurt champion).

Ego, Grandmaster, Runner are the elite among the Elders and are comfortably above herald level.

ah. 👆

Originally posted by zopzop
Yup, I understand and that's why I said this :

Surfer >>>> Champion (even an amped one) yet Runner beat him with seeming ease.

Ego, Grandmaster, Runner are the elite among the Elders and are comfortably above herald level.

Runner out muscled Surfer. This isn't a good feat because there are lots of heralds stronger than Surfer. Also Surfer was said to be weakened. You can't ignore that.

Beating Surfer in that way has no bearing on how Superman would beat him solo.

Superman wouldnt stand a chance imho

So you guys are basing that runner can beat Superman alone because of him defeating Surfer by holding his hand? Obviously Runner didn't want Surfer to blast him because Surfer blasts would hurt him. Otherwise, why prevent him?

Lastly, defeating Surfer doesn't mean you can defeat Superman. That's faulty ABC logic.
Superman would knock runner out.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Superman wouldnt stand a chance imho

Based on my mega post earlier on, high showings arent everything, implied power and stature also come into play, imo the flash would hand supes his ass, the runner is basically a flash on steroids, far beyomd c100 strength, can travel almost instantly to any point of the universe, can own thanos easily(thats a good feat considering thanos nearly killed surfer with a few punches) only to be pis phucked (cant destroy the character the whole arc is about can you)

at the end of the day, The runner is leaps and bounds ahead of both supes and adam

Originally posted by h1a8
ABC logic doesn't fly here. Not only do characters job (both Champion and Surfer job) but it is how you beat a character that matters and not the fact that you beat them.

Runner out muscled Surfer. This isn't a good feat because there are lots of heralds stronger than Surfer. Also Surfer was said to be weakened. You can't ignore that.

Beating Surfer in that way has no bearing on how Superman would beat him solo.

Surfer and Champion fought twice. Champion lost the first time and an AMPED Champion was LOSING the second time. So Champion claiming the only reason Runner won was because Surfer was weakened is SUSPECT.

Runner beat Surfer straight up.

So going by their COMMON FOE, Runner>>>Surfer>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Champion.

One way i could see this going down

superman and adam are on there way to confront the runner, the runner has been spotted charging towards them by supes due to super speed vision(what ever) as he tells adam to brace himself adam disapears asif its a poof of smoke,the runner and adam are poofing all over the place adam is then launched at supes but clark dodges him, adam is bloodied and unconsious, he turns back to the runner who is no were to be seen, clark then realizes he cannot stop smiling even though he is angry, then in literally lquicker than a blink superman gets upper cutted into earths higher atmosphere, the runner squares of with supes, then after a little scuffle the runner using his cosmic awareness and primordial powers senses the increasing solar radiation coming from clarks body, he then puts two am two together and realizes superman gains power from absorbing radiation from the yellow star, using his vast almost instant speed he transports him an supes to different regions of the universe in front of different stars, after a 10 minute fighting session, come across a red star, superman becomes astronomically weaker and runner begins to toy with him, then out of no were somehow adam had found them, he sucker punches runner who applauds adam on his efforts to save his friend, adam is then pasted and launched into the red sun, the runner can feel supermans heart and spirit, pulling through against all odds, he smirks at superman and tells him he loves a challenge, using his vast molecular manipulation powers he gives his cape the mass/density of a large planet, with adam dead and superman almost slug like to the runner, he realizes supermans tremendous strength, heart an spirtit will not be broken, he goes at clark with every ounce of power hes got for one final blow, enhancing his speed and strength beyond measure using his control over the power primordial, implants his fist into clarks face, causing shockwaves and ripples through out the milky way, supermans limp body drifted away, and a blurred line of fine gold vanished.

thats just being generous, the runner would of ended them in the first paragraph

Originally posted by tkitna
Marvel says he's a matter manipulator also (cant remember an example without pulling the books), but thats not hard to accept with a character that has tapped the Power Primordial and obtains the power cosmic.